"Sober" on Ambien?
What the doc and patient determine to be best for the patient is none of our business. Even Bill W says there are some who need meds.
This issue is very close to my heart. My son stopped taking prescribed meds because an NA person said he wasn't "clean." He went back out as a direct result, and almost died. He's a heroin addict. Believe me, I wanted to break every bone in that loud mouth, know it all arse's body! How DARE he play doctor with my son's life!
If you want to be a doctor - get a medical degree!
Sorry, I obviously have strong feelings about this.
Because, if it don't have our name on it, it's not our business. :nono:
Shalom!
This issue is very close to my heart. My son stopped taking prescribed meds because an NA person said he wasn't "clean." He went back out as a direct result, and almost died. He's a heroin addict. Believe me, I wanted to break every bone in that loud mouth, know it all arse's body! How DARE he play doctor with my son's life!
If you want to be a doctor - get a medical degree!
Sorry, I obviously have strong feelings about this.
Because, if it don't have our name on it, it's not our business. :nono:
Shalom!
I respect your post and understand your position. No person can declare another person clean or not clean, only they can. I don't consider myself sober while taking a benzo or hypnotic, I don't consider others sober that do either - but what I think shouldn't matter, it's difficult enough to keep my own clean time straight.
I had such a terrible experience with Ambien that I feel it my duty to try to warn people of it's dangers and if I get banned for doing so, I'm prepared to face those consequences...because like you Teach, I have strong and passionate feels toward this subject.
Peace,
PR
Last edited by PurpleReign; 06-09-2007 at 07:12 AM. Reason: Addition
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
That may be your opinion....but you don't have the right to tell others that they are not sober if they are taking prescribed medications.
Have you had any caffeine today? Eh. No problem for you right? Might as well give me a line of white powder which I would run screaming from
Let's each take our own inventory and not others.!
I am not going to rant that Prozac or Sonata are bad drugs. They work for alot of people. But they are very dangerous to me!
Have you had any caffeine today? Eh. No problem for you right? Might as well give me a line of white powder which I would run screaming from
Let's each take our own inventory and not others.!
I am not going to rant that Prozac or Sonata are bad drugs. They work for alot of people. But they are very dangerous to me!
Live,
No caffeine today, I had a diet Sierra Mist does that count?
I didn't once tell anyone they weren't sober...I simply stated I didn't consider them sober - like it or not there is a difference.
Too much drama on this thread for me so you can have it. But whenever people have questions about Ambien, I'll be there to try to help the best I can.
Enjoy your day.
PR
No caffeine today, I had a diet Sierra Mist does that count?
I didn't once tell anyone they weren't sober...I simply stated I didn't consider them sober - like it or not there is a difference.
Too much drama on this thread for me so you can have it. But whenever people have questions about Ambien, I'll be there to try to help the best I can.
Enjoy your day.
PR
I used to have issues about the 12 steppers telling everybody that their emds made them still actively an addict yada yada.......I understand where they're coming from...........But I ALSO KNOW that some emdications can save your life, improve your quality of life and allow you to LIVE your life.
I am becoming very sensitive to caffeine, I totally schiz out if I have more than 1/2 cup of Half Caff coffee each day. It feel;s worse than when I have done speed!
So I could argue that the coffee in the rooms of AA is a DRUG, because well, CAFFEINE is a DRUG, NICOINE is a drug, a cigarette and a cup of coffee is TWO drugs.....and don't say the cigs don't hurt anybody, second hand smoke IS dangeroud...(don't mind my ranting either I am a former smoker, swore I would never preach like this..well...here I am!) sorry!
But anyways, anythign can be a drug!Power is a drug, tellign another THEY are NOT sober and YOU have THE answers because there is NO drug in your system! Yeah right, the cortisol and adrenaline surges people get when they get self-righteous ands fired up(myself included) It is like a drug charging you up, making you FEEL better, more powerful etc.
As a teen when I went to AA it was very hard for em because I had been threatend with being sent back to the state hospital for another 90 days.and even longer they reminded me, there WAS a judge on the campus in Austin.) I HAD to take em meds, they even took blood to check my levels of medications. So I felt really out of place aND CONFUSED, AND LIKE I WAS "BAD' AND SCREWED....becaus esome gotshot dry drunk thought HE had the POWER and authority to TELL me what made me okay, what made me sober..and "really' in recovery.
I sometimes wonder if I would have gotten better sooner if there had been more understanding members in that particular AA group.........but I am not angry with them now, I have no resentments.....
I DO know what it feels like to be treated badly because one needs a particular med.
I am alright with it NOW though, no hard feelings.
It IS scary all the new meds coming out killing people, making em sick and crazy in the head, I remember when oxycontin came out, I was in my docs office, a rep from the company made the oxy's came in telling me how many people die a year because of the tylenol in REGULAR percocet...blah blah blah.The company gave me FREE 42 oxycontin's.................my doc signed off, went toharmacy with coupo, FREE! It's crazy.......
Of course NOW that I live in excruciating pain some days, pain that even affect my breathing..I know the real value of narcotics.and yep..I still consider myself 'sober' and in recovery because emy number one problem before recovery wasn't the pills so much as the MIND trip I was on, the crazy belief systems in myead, the arrogance, the lack of confidence, etc......when you get ur head rigth you're amazed at what follows.
just my two cents though.........
I am becoming very sensitive to caffeine, I totally schiz out if I have more than 1/2 cup of Half Caff coffee each day. It feel;s worse than when I have done speed!
So I could argue that the coffee in the rooms of AA is a DRUG, because well, CAFFEINE is a DRUG, NICOINE is a drug, a cigarette and a cup of coffee is TWO drugs.....and don't say the cigs don't hurt anybody, second hand smoke IS dangeroud...(don't mind my ranting either I am a former smoker, swore I would never preach like this..well...here I am!) sorry!
But anyways, anythign can be a drug!Power is a drug, tellign another THEY are NOT sober and YOU have THE answers because there is NO drug in your system! Yeah right, the cortisol and adrenaline surges people get when they get self-righteous ands fired up(myself included) It is like a drug charging you up, making you FEEL better, more powerful etc.
As a teen when I went to AA it was very hard for em because I had been threatend with being sent back to the state hospital for another 90 days.and even longer they reminded me, there WAS a judge on the campus in Austin.) I HAD to take em meds, they even took blood to check my levels of medications. So I felt really out of place aND CONFUSED, AND LIKE I WAS "BAD' AND SCREWED....becaus esome gotshot dry drunk thought HE had the POWER and authority to TELL me what made me okay, what made me sober..and "really' in recovery.
I sometimes wonder if I would have gotten better sooner if there had been more understanding members in that particular AA group.........but I am not angry with them now, I have no resentments.....
I DO know what it feels like to be treated badly because one needs a particular med.
I am alright with it NOW though, no hard feelings.
It IS scary all the new meds coming out killing people, making em sick and crazy in the head, I remember when oxycontin came out, I was in my docs office, a rep from the company made the oxy's came in telling me how many people die a year because of the tylenol in REGULAR percocet...blah blah blah.The company gave me FREE 42 oxycontin's.................my doc signed off, went toharmacy with coupo, FREE! It's crazy.......
Of course NOW that I live in excruciating pain some days, pain that even affect my breathing..I know the real value of narcotics.and yep..I still consider myself 'sober' and in recovery because emy number one problem before recovery wasn't the pills so much as the MIND trip I was on, the crazy belief systems in myead, the arrogance, the lack of confidence, etc......when you get ur head rigth you're amazed at what follows.
just my two cents though.........
Purple;
If you want to share your own ESH, I will say nothing but supportive statements.
The minute you tell my son, (or any other mom's son or daughter), when s/he is clean or not, I'll tell you once more the same thing....
If you want to be a doctor - get a medical degree!
Simple.
And that's all I have to say.
Shalom!
If you want to share your own ESH, I will say nothing but supportive statements.
The minute you tell my son, (or any other mom's son or daughter), when s/he is clean or not, I'll tell you once more the same thing....
If you want to be a doctor - get a medical degree!
Simple.
And that's all I have to say.
Shalom!
Last edited by historyteach; 06-09-2007 at 07:56 PM.
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fluttering About
Posts: 3,760
"We are an undisciplined lot." In recovery we get to learn responsibility and discipline. If our motivews are clear...and the need is ther for a med..and it is prescribed by a doctor it is not up to any of us to tell another what to do.. we make sugestions only.
It is my experience tthough to be well informed whenit comes to matters of health...whe going toa doctor it is important to ask questions..the only way i knew to ask certin questions was to share, ask others...then when in with the doctor, it is ultimately my decision to do as the doc recomends or to ask for alternativews
Insomnia is a grewquent problem for us in recovery...There are many alternatives ..health food stores, relaxation tapes/CDs, reading the phone book, prayer, etc, etc...
However in regareds to another...we share ESH....Yes there are many who have opinions...however for me, I have enough on my own plate to remain clean and sober than to take another's inventory...I am also frequently taking my own .... and that keeps me busy..i don't need or have time to take anothers..I am willing to share ESH...snd to sponsor and so other service work as I can or am able.
I stay on my side of the street, practice being nonjudgemental, and I do not take another's inventory.
I have 21 years in recovery. I abused drugs, alcohol, sex, food, anything & everything that would change the way I felt. Today i am grasteful i had the sponsor I did when I came into recovery..It was she who pointed out the quote I began this post with. She also had me read in the book where it tels us we cannot diagnose anyother person to say if they are alcoholic or if they are not...she taught me to check out my motives...she never judged me and taught me that words are cheap and in the end..al that really matters is how I live today..& the way I live may be the only Big Book others will ever read.
thank you for this post...enlightening and informative...
I am grateful we have SR to post our concerns and I have learned so much here.
It is my experience tthough to be well informed whenit comes to matters of health...whe going toa doctor it is important to ask questions..the only way i knew to ask certin questions was to share, ask others...then when in with the doctor, it is ultimately my decision to do as the doc recomends or to ask for alternativews
Insomnia is a grewquent problem for us in recovery...There are many alternatives ..health food stores, relaxation tapes/CDs, reading the phone book, prayer, etc, etc...
However in regareds to another...we share ESH....Yes there are many who have opinions...however for me, I have enough on my own plate to remain clean and sober than to take another's inventory...I am also frequently taking my own .... and that keeps me busy..i don't need or have time to take anothers..I am willing to share ESH...snd to sponsor and so other service work as I can or am able.
I stay on my side of the street, practice being nonjudgemental, and I do not take another's inventory.
I have 21 years in recovery. I abused drugs, alcohol, sex, food, anything & everything that would change the way I felt. Today i am grasteful i had the sponsor I did when I came into recovery..It was she who pointed out the quote I began this post with. She also had me read in the book where it tels us we cannot diagnose anyother person to say if they are alcoholic or if they are not...she taught me to check out my motives...she never judged me and taught me that words are cheap and in the end..al that really matters is how I live today..& the way I live may be the only Big Book others will ever read.
thank you for this post...enlightening and informative...
I am grateful we have SR to post our concerns and I have learned so much here.
Jeff070204
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 39
My sponsor was telling me...
...about a woman who just got her 6-year chip. He said that when she got up in front of the group at the meeting to share her experience, part of her remarks dealt with how people shouldn't feel guilty if they need medication, and that she takes medication, and still lives according to the Principles, and has a Relationship with a Higher Power, etc.
Her medication? Marijuana. Because she's diabetic.
Um, OK.
Her medication? Marijuana. Because she's diabetic.
Um, OK.
Thanks for sharing Jeff.
I don't mean to sound like a jerk but what's your point with that story? Trying to prove "med-takers" wrong?
Anti-depressants, anti-anxiety, sleeping pills, anti-psychotics.
Some of need them.
I KNOW I'm sober.
Are you?
I don't mean to sound like a jerk but what's your point with that story? Trying to prove "med-takers" wrong?
Anti-depressants, anti-anxiety, sleeping pills, anti-psychotics.
Some of need them.
I KNOW I'm sober.
Are you?
Jeff070204
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 39
I don't know. Perhaps not, since you put it that way.
I have been abstinent from alcohol, benzodiazepines, opiates, SSRIs, MAOIs, tricyclics, other antidepressants, other sedatives, hallucinogens, marijuana and other cannabis drugs, as well as any other illicit street drugs, since July 2nd, 2004. Since that time, I have participated in AA to the best of my ability on an almost-daily basis.
HOWEVER, had ANY of the types of substances listed above been suggested to me by ANYONE I came in contact with during the past three years as a viable, legitimate, acceptable option or type of treatment for whatever you want to call my "condition", I would have at least seriously considered using any or all of them.
That is the most honest answer I can give to your question.
I have been abstinent from alcohol, benzodiazepines, opiates, SSRIs, MAOIs, tricyclics, other antidepressants, other sedatives, hallucinogens, marijuana and other cannabis drugs, as well as any other illicit street drugs, since July 2nd, 2004. Since that time, I have participated in AA to the best of my ability on an almost-daily basis.
HOWEVER, had ANY of the types of substances listed above been suggested to me by ANYONE I came in contact with during the past three years as a viable, legitimate, acceptable option or type of treatment for whatever you want to call my "condition", I would have at least seriously considered using any or all of them.
That is the most honest answer I can give to your question.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fluttering About
Posts: 3,760
It is important to do reeasrch and to ask questions sothat whwen a health care professionsal sugeests things we are informed enough to ask questions based on what we know of our past and our disease.
There are times we requuire meds..When absolutely required [ie; tragic accident , surgery, and we need pain meds] we ask someone we trust to be informed of the need for the med and I asked the person to monitor my use...this was in early recovery...and i know still today after many years in recovery...for me to remain safe, sober, clean, & happy, jyous & free...I still allow someone to know what is going on with me . I have a daily reprieve based on my spiritual condition.
There are times we requuire meds..When absolutely required [ie; tragic accident , surgery, and we need pain meds] we ask someone we trust to be informed of the need for the med and I asked the person to monitor my use...this was in early recovery...and i know still today after many years in recovery...for me to remain safe, sober, clean, & happy, jyous & free...I still allow someone to know what is going on with me . I have a daily reprieve based on my spiritual condition.
Jeff070204
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 39
I haven't seen a "health care professional" (except for two visits to a dentist for cleanings) since I was in a detox facility five days after my last drink. That was to get tested for tuberculosis prior to being moved into a residential rehab.
I used to go to doctors frequently, essentially to drug-seek. I wanted a pill that would replace the alcohol. I found that doctors in general hate alcoholics, but I did find a couple of doctors who were more than happy throw a few kinds of pills at me. Most people who are familiar with my experience will tell you that the pills drastically worsened my condition. I choose to look at the experience as a necessary step to get me where I am now.
One of the things alcohol and alcoholism took from me was my health insurance. I realize that isn't what most people experience, but from that practical standpoint alone, prescription drugs were never an option for me.
I used to go to doctors frequently, essentially to drug-seek. I wanted a pill that would replace the alcohol. I found that doctors in general hate alcoholics, but I did find a couple of doctors who were more than happy throw a few kinds of pills at me. Most people who are familiar with my experience will tell you that the pills drastically worsened my condition. I choose to look at the experience as a necessary step to get me where I am now.
One of the things alcohol and alcoholism took from me was my health insurance. I realize that isn't what most people experience, but from that practical standpoint alone, prescription drugs were never an option for me.
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 14
JEFF:::::well where to begin If anyone here has read my posts I was addicted to AMBIEn for 4 to 5 years first for the sleep then grew tolerance and needed more to sleep then i stayed up on it and liked it it made me escape my probs and I ended up taking them all day long every 4 to 5 hrs I was up to 8 at a time. They ruined my life my career I forged many scrips for it and went to jail am now on probation for the next 3 more yrs. have been of the AMB since 12 2005 I had to go to re hab for comming off of it. after going to jail for it i said forget this! It is addictive it will get you high unlike lunesta. I used to drive and not know it call ppl and not remember. wrecked 3 cars on the stuff. If u can take it how it is prescribed then more power to you. but if not then stay away. i will never touch the stuff again! anyways thats my experience~!!
M
M
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
I think we can all agree on one thing here....none of us support or encourage drug abuse, no matter what the drug is.
As an aside and not to detract from the above statement, I drank a coca-cola today. I will begin again tomorrow at day 1 of my count of days decaf....even tho' I don't abuse caffeine, it abuses me. That's my inventory of me today.
As an aside and not to detract from the above statement, I drank a coca-cola today. I will begin again tomorrow at day 1 of my count of days decaf....even tho' I don't abuse caffeine, it abuses me. That's my inventory of me today.
I Don't think so.....
I was waiting for someone else to respond.
I don't think that is a fair assessment of Ambien. Altho' if he is having these side effects I would recommend asking the Dr about Desyrel which does not have the side effects most of the new sleep scrips have.
But, really, Ambien has no relationship to benzos or opiates at all.
Many recovering people have psychotropic prescriptions that are necessary to their well being.
I don't think that is a fair assessment of Ambien. Altho' if he is having these side effects I would recommend asking the Dr about Desyrel which does not have the side effects most of the new sleep scrips have.
But, really, Ambien has no relationship to benzos or opiates at all.
Many recovering people have psychotropic prescriptions that are necessary to their well being.
Many Blessings AND PEACE
Kahlia
Jeff070204
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 39
His mom called yesterday
Ambien Guy's mom left two messages on my voice mail yesterday. One of them was very long-winded and I understand barely a word of it. It sounded like there was a sock over the phone. It seemed like she was giving me an address of where he was, possibly for reasons of visiting or corresponding with him? I'm not sure.
The second message I was able understand better, and she asked for the number of the guy who last sponsored A.G. I got that number for her, called her, and left it on her voice mail. I haven't spoken to her in person yet.
I wonder what kind of further involvement I can expect in this situation.
The second message I was able understand better, and she asked for the number of the guy who last sponsored A.G. I got that number for her, called her, and left it on her voice mail. I haven't spoken to her in person yet.
I wonder what kind of further involvement I can expect in this situation.
Jeff070204
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 39
Now it's a "card"
The last I heard was another voice message from his mom this past Saturday afternoon. She said that he's still in the hospital in ICU, but can't have any visitors because he's in police custody. So she gave me her address and that of his father, if I wanted to send "a card of something", because I can't send it directly to the hospital, but "his attorney will see that he gets it".
I didn't call her back and haven't yet. I don't really want to talk to her and don't have anything to say. I'm sure I will call her at some point, and I'll probably send A.G. something, too.
It's kind of funny, because as far as I'm concerned, the situation now is the same as it always has been -- there's nothing I can do for the guy.
I didn't call her back and haven't yet. I don't really want to talk to her and don't have anything to say. I'm sure I will call her at some point, and I'll probably send A.G. something, too.
It's kind of funny, because as far as I'm concerned, the situation now is the same as it always has been -- there's nothing I can do for the guy.
that's pretty much the deal, too.
I've seen another sponsor have to do that - to another person's parent- wh came looking for her when her daughter relapsed for like the thirtieth time.
There's nothing wrong with saying 'I can't get there from here'.
It's be worse - to play saviour, you know?
I think you're being wise.
I've seen another sponsor have to do that - to another person's parent- wh came looking for her when her daughter relapsed for like the thirtieth time.
There's nothing wrong with saying 'I can't get there from here'.
It's be worse - to play saviour, you know?
I think you're being wise.
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