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Old 09-08-2014, 01:29 PM   #81 (permalink)
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Yes opi how are you doing?
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Old 09-08-2014, 08:37 PM   #82 (permalink)
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I gave in and went home. What can I say other than I missed my children. I wasn't able to speak with my daughter, and I wanted to make sure she was OK. Also, I was hurting from withdrawal from one of the various substances I had been on over the prior weeks. Last night was pretty rough. They came in and cleaned the room early for some reason and when I returned it took me a good 5 minutes to convince myself that I wasn't in the wrong room. I wasn't going to be able to make it out to California and back. It was tough getting back as it was. I have been good on the no using / drinking front, but I am still really down. It doesn't seem like it really matters if I can't get some semblance of normalcy at home.

Anyway, I am home. Things are surprisingly in order here. There is still a lot to do and I am coming into this expecting nothing to change. It is probably going to end up being war of the roses times ten. My wife has her therapist meeting tomorrow and I am going to go to it as well. I'm sure I'll get tarred and feathered, but I will at least give the therapist the opportunity to hear my side of things.

Also, I didn't want to skip out on my doctor appointment this week. It would take forever to reschedule it, and I have to at least give it a chance.
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Old 09-08-2014, 09:22 PM   #83 (permalink)
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Opio thank you for letting us know. It's something I would probably do too if I were in that situation. I know you are still upset but maybe this happened for a reason? Maybe you were supposed to stir-up things a little so that she could see that if she doesn't start appreciating you more and change her ways.....this will be the end result? I don't think it was all for nothing! Of course you missed your babies. Ya know? Because that's the kind of person you are....someone who loves and cares about his kids. I think you should go to that therapist appointment with your head held high and be perfectly honest with them about your feelings and about whats happening at home. There is no reason why the therapist should not listen to what you have to say....unless you feel she is impartial to your wife.....and if that's the case then perhaps you need to find a therapist for the two of you that isn't. But you have legitimate complaints and those should be worked thru...if they cannot be resolved thru marriage counseling then you might have to take the next step. But you can cross that bridge when you come to it. For now take care of yourself....rest-up you must be exhausted from driving...and eat healthy and get yourself back to a healthy peaceful place. Try hard not to allow your wife to steal your serenity. Guard it like your life depends on it.....because it does. You know full well where all these substances will take you. You've been there.....so do not let her craziness cause you to loose your balance.

Big hugs Opio....I'm praying for you buddy!
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Old 09-09-2014, 05:16 AM   #84 (permalink)
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"And just like the Prodigal Son I've returned
Anyone stepping to me you'll get burned
'Cause I got lyrics but you ain't got none
If you come to battle bring a shotgun"

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Old 09-09-2014, 08:06 AM   #85 (permalink)
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It was good to see the kids again last night. As much as it pisses me off to admit it, I missed my wife - a little bit. She is at least making an effort at this point. That was really all I was looking for. Hopefully the meeting with the therapist goes well.

Clean - the reason I am somewhat hesitant is because my wife has been there to see the therapist by herself a couple times already. Even if my wife was trying to be objective in her description of the situation I think that would be an impossibility. Her 'perception' of reality seems to have diverged dramatically at some point with mine. There were even several points in time where I began to question whether I was the crazy one.

For example, there would be situations where I would witness a conversation with someone else (person A for sake of clarity) and my wife would be pushing for them to do something that she wanted. Person A was clearly hesitant, but my wife was completely oblivious to the social cues that Person A was exhibiting. Once she talked Person A into what she wanted I would hear her describe that conversation to someone else (Person B for sake of clarity), and her description of the conversation was so different from what I saw that I had to think back to the conversation to question what I saw. Her description to Person B would go something like "Person A is so great. He said he would be more than happy to do that for me. We get along great." I would even go back to Person A sometimes to as objectively as possible get their impression of the situation and I would hear something like "your wife sure is demanding. I wouldn't be able to deal with that." Maybe this is what people talk about when they describe 'gas lighting', but the thing is that I think my wife actually believes what she is saying. It is really bizarre, and sometimes I go back and forth on whether she knows exactly what she is doing and is acting or if she really is that 'crazy'. If she was acting it seems like she would have tripped up somewhere along the way though.

I have tried to ignore it and just worry about my own affairs, but I have found that to be impossible. It has had a serious impact on my life, because people avoid both of us now.

I did talk to a therapist over the phone a few times about this. He was one of my old doctor's from NYC. At the end of the day though, we just talked about the situation. I need solutions to the problem, and a precise plan on how to execute it. Talking about it seems like it just goes around in circles. He did tell me that it would be impossible for me to assess the situation in any accurate way, because I am so close to the situation.

Sometimes I feel like I got dropped off on a desert island with a schizophrenic and then had to argue with them over the color of the sky. After a while, especially in a situation where you are socially isolated, I think anyone would start to think "well, maybe I am the crazy one...the sky must have been green all along." Another alternative would be that we are both crazy.
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Old 09-09-2014, 10:25 AM   #86 (permalink)
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Opio, I'm glad you went home and are seeing the therapist this week. Like cleanin said, maybe it was a wake up call for your wife? I'm more of a pessimist when it comes to people really changing who they are. I think after a certśin age, what you see is what you get. I'm not referring to making better choices or becoming a better person but personality traits are usually not changeable. Maybe since you've been on this journey, you've changed and your tolerance for certain things (your wife's behavior) has become intolerable?
I've noticed that my husbands behavior is much worse than I even realized because I was high all the time. Just a thought.
People grow and others don't...sometimes people get left behind in the process. Whatever you decide, do what's best for yourself and your children.

Thinking of you...
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Old 09-09-2014, 12:08 PM   #87 (permalink)
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Hi Opio,

I hope the appointment goes good today. Clean is right in what she said, go in their with your head up, and share honestly with the therapist about your feelings. I know your wife has lots of issues going on, sounds like shes in denial of her own behavior, or actually incapable of seeing it? Its weird stuff !
I respect you very much for putting the effort out there, and I hate to go down the road but if it comes to divorce then at least you tried, did the due diligence on the marriage. I will be thinking about you today, fingers crossed.
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Old 09-09-2014, 02:50 PM   #88 (permalink)
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I was nervous heading into the appointment, but things went relatively OK. There were no concrete conclusions reached at the appointment, but I think the therapist saw that I was a reasonable person. I was calm throughout the ordeal, but I did call my wife out on the fact that there we no less than 5 occasions during the 45 minute session that she brought up my past H use when it was totally unrelated to the topic at hand. Even the therapist was getting annoyed with it, but I must say that the therapist was very good at concealing her reactions. She let her guard down a little on that one, and I could tell the therapist was frustrated.

Also, my wife brought up some things from the past and said that I was just too intoxicated on the H to remember it. I flat out called BS on that one. Somehow I was able to handle a full time job and interact with various people without every having these mysterious 'memory gaps'. They seem to only be unique to situations where she was the only person there. Maybe she was referring to nights when I had to get up in the morning early and she was blabbing about the newest thing on one of those damn new housewives show. Ya, I nodded off during a few of those conversations when it got to midnight / 1 AM - guilty as charged. However, what guy wouldn't nod off - sober or not - listening to a recant of real housewives? I can't even stand when it is on the TV in the background...much less listen to a recap of the show.

My wife seems to be trying at least. There is nothing to lose at this point, but the therapist does not look like she wants to use it as couple's therapy. I still worry that over time a distorted view of the situation will be presented to the therapist, and my wife will receive positive feedback for her behavior. The last therapist that she went to gave her the advice that she needed to be "more assertive". Anyone who has been around my wife for 5 minutes would probably throw themselves into convulsions from laughing if they heard that advice. At first I was pissed at the last therapist, but I realized that it would have been practically impossible for anyone to come to that conclusion if my wife was presenting a situation with any basis of objective reality.

I can relate to those that identify as co-dependents that try to fix someone else's problem. It may completely be a fool's errand on my part, but I am going to try anyway. After reflecting on it more I realized that I wouldn't be able to truly walk away without exploring every avenue, and making a good faith effort.

Also, I clearly have my own issues that I am working through right now. I am still feeling like garbage, but today is better than yesterday. Today, I have been a good boy!

I do feel quite guilty about the recent screw up with the amps, booze and benzos. I was a difficult person to be around during that time, and was nearly incapable of functioning with the booze. That is not to say that a functioning addict is somehow better, but I don't see how being mean / unable to function wouldn't have a greater impact on those around me.
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Old 09-09-2014, 02:57 PM   #89 (permalink)
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My marriage counseling years ago was absolutely worthless. I was accused of being a drunk and that was were all the problems came from. Say what??? I hadn't drank since college then and didn't want to. I've never been an alcoholic but the more I tried to explain the more sure of it he was. The ex wife was eating it up.No mention of her psychotic, violent behavior, just my imaginary drinking problem. Ridiculous experience and I refused to keep paying $100 a week for it.
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Old 09-09-2014, 03:21 PM   #90 (permalink)
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I think because your trying to get her professional help Opio this doesnt make you codependent. If you were just trying to love her enough, smooch on her enough, and fix all her mental health and emotional issues then I might give you the nod.

HAHAHAHAH not my favorite term.

Did the therapist recommend another person for family counseling? My husband has his own doctor, and for a while I saw one too. But then we see another one together. They are all in the same group but independent. I think its probably better because you do form a certain relationship and comfort level over time. Its not a quick fix, but maybe if you try and also at the same time keep strengthening yourself, seek out some legal advice because of the kids and the finances. Hopefully you wont ever need it but knowledge is power, planning in advance can often be crucial to success.
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Old 09-09-2014, 05:24 PM   #91 (permalink)
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Hi Opio

My experience is that addicts often end up with partners who are also disturbed in ways of their own, other than addiction issues.

I came to realise that a very well rounded, wholesome, sane thinking woman, would not have looked upon me as marriage & breeding material.

The only two relatively "issue free" women that I had relationships with, cut me loose after a short period. Maybe they did have some issues, but they were never glaringly apparent to me. Whilst my issues were glaringly apparent to them, hence they didn't stick around very long.

So, I now look at it along the lines of "birds of a feather flock together" or to sugar coat it even less "unwell attracts unwell" regardless of the actual issues each respective partner has, two sick cookies are better than one. Or so each partner thinks as they forge their relationship.

In my case & I think in the case of my wife, neither of us consciously sort each other out. It happened on a more subconscious level at first.

It has taken two different runs at recovery for me to be able to see & try to accept, what I have written above.

I hope that helps
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Old 09-09-2014, 05:35 PM   #92 (permalink)
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It's pretty common for us guys to turn our attention to trying to fix someone Or something else Opio. It seems easier, or less fraught, than focusing on ourselves.

I'm not saying do nothing about this other stuff...life goes on, but I am saying keep sight of the fact you have a recovery that you need to continue to work on too.

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Old 09-09-2014, 05:41 PM   #93 (permalink)
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Yes. The therapist gave us a reference for a couple's counselor. I am hoping that we can come to some sort of middle ground. If it turns into solely a blame game then it will be a waste of time. If my wife loses that one she will likely think that I somehow manipulated the therapist into attacking her (my response would likely be the same if I was told I was slowly to blame). I will own the things I did wrong, but I am not going to own her reactions to me. She is responsible for her actions the same way I am responsible for mine. That is the way I see it anyway.

I do know that it is impossible to tell my wife anything directly and anything good come of it. If I point something out that is bothering me then she is immediately defensive. I don't really hold that against her, per se. It seems like human nature to me. You can only admit you are wrong so many times before it starts messing with your head, and you begin to question everything. Sometimes I will avoid saying something directly, but share a story where I made the same mistake that I perceive that she is making. That way she doesn't see it as a direct attack. When she connects the dots on her own it seems to be more effective, because she reflects on her own actions without the need to defensive. Also, she keeps her pride by via the sensation that she figured it out. She has seemed oblivious to this in the past, but my efforts only provided temporary results. We'll see if that is effective. The problem is that it takes a great deal of patience for me to use that approach.

Blue - haha...don't worry I don't identify as a codependent - yet. What happens if a codie catches a habit anyway? Are they then an addict, still a codie or both? True, I am trying to influence her actions (directly or indirectly), but I am leaving it to the pros for the most part. I must confrss that I am not going to be passive in the process though. Her past doctors have been unimpressive with their results.
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Old 09-09-2014, 05:45 PM   #94 (permalink)
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I remember going to counseling with my ex I felt as if they teamed up on me everthing was my fault I think the lady counselor had a thing for my ex if you know what I mean lol
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Old 09-09-2014, 07:47 PM   #95 (permalink)
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Dee - I don't disagree with your point about not losing focus on myself. I ****** up recently, and there is no one to blame for that but myself. My wife didn't have anything to do with taking the amps nor anything that followed. Whatever happens with regards to my addiction is solely on me, and no one else. I am in a weak spot right now, and I must say that on most days over the past few weeks I have questioned my sanity. Clearly, I have made serious errors in judgment over the years, and I have suffered consequences for those actions. Granted, I have not see the inside of prison yet nor have I truly suffered what many addicts would consider a 'rock bottom'. Materials things have not be stripped from me yet, and I have escaped death (narrowly) on multiple occasions. I have no doubt that all of that will come in time if I continue on the path of active addition.

Often I hear the advice that we can't expect others to change, and that we must be immune to the actions of those around us. From my read of it, that seems to be advice focused specifically on addiction. This is a tremendous struggle for me to be honest. If my problems at home were gone would I expect to be 'cured' of addiction? No, of course not. I realize how far I have taken my addiction and those are actions that I will never be able to take back.

All of that said, when I was desperate enough to try to claw my way back from this self-imposed morass of addiction it was with the hope that there would be some light at the end of the tunnel. A life that was worth living without drugs / booze or whatever. My family is an integral part of me and my children are my flesh and blood. They are a part of my life, and there is nothing that I can do to undo that. If this life at the end of the tunnel means the status quo with my family then I don't know what to say other than it isn't a life worth living. Without some light at the end of the tunnel worth working for the situation appears utterly hopeless.

It would be great to focus on myself, but I if my family is destroyed due to my lack of attention then it will be all for nothing.

As far as it being easier to focus on my wife rather than my own problems I respectfully disagree on that point. I would much rather her deal with her issues herself, and allow me to focus on myself.
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Old 09-09-2014, 08:08 PM   #96 (permalink)
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Whalebelow - thanks for the input. To your point I did meet my wife across a pile of coke at a night club so it's not like I married Marry Poppins. I was attracted to her craziness at first, and she was the life of the party. We didn't have children though, and that has made a big difference in the marriage.

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I came to realise that a very well rounded, wholesome, sane thinking woman, would not have looked upon me as marriage & breeding material.
I found this to be an extraordinarily depressing statement brother. How did you come to that conclusion?
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Old 09-09-2014, 08:23 PM   #97 (permalink)
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Opio, I don't have any words of wisdom...I think you are wiser then me anyway. But I wanted to cheer you on....and send some positive vibes.
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Old 09-09-2014, 08:38 PM   #98 (permalink)
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Just sharing a warning ripped from the pages of my own experience mate

I was always good at discerning what other people needed to do...less so with my self.

In the past I often lost sight of myself trying to help others. To me, with apologies to BC, that was co-dependency writ large.

I didn't mean suggest you were doing the same thing

The good thing is here if my waffle is no good to you someone else might get something from it

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Old 09-09-2014, 08:52 PM   #99 (permalink)
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Yes please you've been great help to me man don't want anything to happen to you will be praying for you friend
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Old 09-09-2014, 08:57 PM   #100 (permalink)
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Like you, I ended up with a party girl. What other kind of girl was I going to meet, if all I did was party?

I wasn't going to run into a Nobel prize winner or someone who just quietly got on with her life with little need for drink, drugs or both.

I met women that partied / raved without any drugs and just a drink or two (if any at all)

I just thought they came from a different planet and I guess they looked at me and thought "why does he get so wasted like that"

Having a good honest look at myself, my flaws, my nasty pieces of personality, helped me realise my wife and i's mutual attraction.

She has her own issues that she is now aware of and is doing her very best to reign in. Doesn't get it 100% right 24/7, but it's progress, not perfection.

As it is for me.

I don't find it depressing that any sane woman would have looked at me in full flight and run a mile.

It just means they could see in me, what i couldn't see or acknowledge in my self for years.

I was damaged goods. Why else would I be slowly killing myself with very high doses of self prescribed medicine ie booze and drugs.
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