BadSneakers

Hello everyone,

Today is my 13th day clean coming off an addiction to kratom. I want to share my story for both those going through this who may feel alone and for those who do not know how serious an addiction to this substance can become.

I started using basic Bali powder 2 1/2 years ago. At first I was very responsible, but after a year or so I started throwing caution to the wind and using much more frequently than I should have. Even at that point my WDs, if I had any, were manageable. Uncomfortable, but manageable.

Cut to this past spring when I decided, foolishly, to order something called Full Spectrum Tincture (FST). This is a very highly concentrated tincture of kratom. I figured I would be able to take a few drops instead of choking down piles of dirt and it might go easier on my body. Ha.

This was the worst mistake I have made in a long time. The FST is bad news. I attempted to use it in a responsible manner, but even a small amount every other day made my tolerance shoot up and the powder kratom was no longer even registering in my mind. Soon I was taking the FST every few hours just to keep away very typical opiate type withdrawal symptoms. I wanted out, but I was scared of the WD. Eventually I decided I simply needed to pay the piper if I wanted my life back.

I decided to kick cold turkey when I had some time away from my job and my mom was here to help with some home renovations (I didn't want to be alone). What followed were 4 of the most horrendous days I could ever imagine. Violent restless leg and arm syndrome. I rubbed the inside of my knees raw from the violent shaking. Insomnia mixed in with bizarre waking dreams that I still can't bear to think about. Diarrhea, messing my pants (disgusting), sweating like a pig, chills, body aches from head to toe. I am a small person and lost at least 11 lbs in 3 days. The worst of it lasted 4 days, the body aches, chills, RLS and insomnia lasted for a good 9 days total. I am on my 13th day clean and still experience terrible, crippling anxiety as well as insomnia. I know this will take a while while my brain repairs the damage I did do its chemistry. I am willing to fight it out.

Anyhow, sorry if I went on too long. It just seems like the internet is full of fanboys and sellers promoting this stuff as harmless. Well, it can be used responsibly, but you must be very vigilant. It works on the mu opioid receptor - same as any pharmaceutical opiate. Thus it comes with the same potential for abuse, addiction, and withdrawal. It has many other active alkaloids in it that we have yet to understand. Be safe, be sane, and if you think you might be developing a problem, please step back before you end up like me.

To any other kratom addicts out there, you are not alone. Just because you aren't kicking heroin or oxies doesn't mean your addiction isn't real. The chemistry alone says it is quite real. My thoughts are with you. Stay strong.

biminiblue

This is the same thing you posted yesterday. (?)

BadSneakers

Very close, but I wanted to post something in the Substance Abuse forum in addition to just posting in the Newcomers area.

cleaninLI

Yes badsneakers I've heard that kratom addiction is just as bad and as powerful as any other opiate addiction. We've had a few kratom addicts on here since I've been here.

Thank you for informing us......many probably do not know how addictive kratom can be.

Congrats on your recovery!

Let us know how you are doing...you are not alone!

cleaninLI

Here is one thread that I dug up from the archives if you're interested.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...07-kratom.html

OscarLevant

It's wonderful you were able to successfully withdraw.

However, your story should not negate the valid and important analgesic
and medicinal properties of Kratom.
If used responsibly, it's effective for pain and I believe, for a few other things.
I use it for headaches, and it works wonderfully.
But, I never use more than a tablespoon, put into a coffee
maker, and make "kratom coffee", with lemon and honey, about a pint a day.
The "high", well, there is no real high but a mild mood elevation, very relaxing,
but it continues to help me cope with pain and live my life.

My addiction is mild, so I go off it once or twice a month to break the cycle and prevent higher toleration,
and, at this level, the only WD is tiredness, which, after a day or two, I'm good to go. So, done responsibly,
there is a cost/benefit that is worth it, if one lives in chronic pain as I do. Medical perscriptions of various kind,
I've tried many, an they are either ineffective, or they have much worse side effects.

I never allow myself to take "tinctures", etc ( I'm okay with banning tinctures and extracts, or anything other than powder or leaves )
or allow myself to fall into the trap of needing more and more. I know that danger, having been raised in an environment of drug abusers
my entire life. People with addictive personalities should take extra caution, of course.

Of course, some people should not take it, just as some people can't drink one or two drinks,
they either stay away completely or they are alcoholics, there is no middle ground for the
addictive personality. But, that doesn't mean we should reinstate prohibition, either. For me, Kratom is a godsend.

Your story should be understood that kratom, like any substance, can be abused,
many good medicines are abused but that doesn't mean they should be banned.
The only thing that should be banned is abusive behaviour and we should educate
and encourage responsible behavour at every turn.

Oscar Levant

cleaninLI

Yes I agree. It is probably beneficial for those who are not prone to addiction....and if taken at small doses to help real chronic pain sufferers.

I am not for banning any medicine.....even my DOC as there are many many people who truly need it.....do not abuse it. Same with many herbal supplements. It's a shame that because of addiction so many non-addict chronic pain sufferers get scrutinized.....forced to step down or lower their doses or in some cases forced off because the doctors fear being blamed for over-prescribing.

Not sure what could be done about this. I have to say that many of my pills bought off the street were pills prescribed to chronic pain and seriously ill patients who sold there scripts for extra money. That is a huge problem too! I would think the doctors could test the levels of the med in their blood?

Alright I guess I went off a little....sorry about that.

Ashamedof

Cleanin, I always wondered about that too..counting pills, drug testing levels etc. how do these people that sell their script even get away with that? Lazy doctors? I would assume it would be nearly impossible unless the testing and pill counting isn't happening and that's a issue in my eyes. I know it's an inconvenience to the people who depend and do not abuse their medications however, it would prevent diversion. I know, I'm off track too, I just used to buy my pills from dealers and always wondered how they always had so many on them?

As far as kratom, I think it can be addictive just like my morning coffee is addictive..I don't think people will rob and steal from their mothers for it but who knows? I've used it before and with a tolerance like mine, it did nothing for me. If used in a responsible way I feel it can be a god sent and an alternative to highly addictive narcotics. I don't think the plant should be banned either.

Congratulations on getting clean Bad and sharing your story.

cleaninLI

Yes ashamed, idk either....but I know most of my connections where from people who were family members of elderly sick pain patients. I guess they kept a certain amount for themselves...then sold the rest? So maybe when they were tested it showed up in their system? But I think you're right random pill counts might be helpful. I assume people automatically think of old people as honest and wouldn't get caught-up in selling their scripts. But if you think about it....they could be the ones hurting for money....usually they are on a fixed income of SS or a pension. But have many medical expenses. So maybe they are hurting for money and get tempted if a younger family member takes care of the deal? They only have to hand over their pills each month. Then there are those family members who might be dishonest caretakers and not be giving them all their medications. An elderly person with dementia might never know what's happening? Yeah it's sad to think I was a part of that maybe I was taking a poor sick old woman's medicine who really needed it? That is also I good reason to remain in recovery. It's participating in illegal and immoral acts.

BadSneakers

My intent was not to get into a debate about legality. You won't see me out fighting for a federal ban. I accept personal responsibility for all of my actions.

My intent was to provide a warning and to provide support to to those still out there suffering. That is all.

cleaninLI

Yes bad sneakers I understand your intention. I think that was a very good intention! People need to be warned about this. Sorry I went off topic. Do you want me to have my post removed?

Congrats to you!

BadSneakers

Nonono, CleaninLI, your post is absolutely fine! Just clarifying my intent.

cleaninLI

Oh ok! Yes I think it's clear...don't worry.....I guess I'm in a talkative mood! Lol sorry about that!

But you are right to let people know what could happen. I've heard of people addicted to pills like I am.....who used kratom for withdrawals or to get off them and switched over to kratom thinking its less addictive or less harmful....but a drug is a drug is a drug etc....regardless of being all natural or labeled as an herbal supplement. I mean if you think about it what is opium? Isn't it from the poppy plant? We all know how addictive that is right? So it's great to put the dangers out there. ..as well as your story. Plus we are here to support you too! Because although our DOC has a different name.....addiction is addiction and kratom is very similar......with probably the same types of withdrawal symptoms as well as the PAWS that we all have to deal with following our addictions.

cleaninLI

Bad sneakers just wanted to bump your thread up. I know you are having a tough day today. I'm glad you decided to hang out with us. Do not isolate! Our addiction wants to keep us isolated so that it can chatter in our ear.....tell us crazy stuff like..."oh just one won't hurt. You've got two weeks clean so you deserve just one. It won't make a difference." Or "it's the weekend, you can use a little then start back-up on Monday." At least that's the kind of thinking that mine told me. But it lies big time! It wants to deceive you so that you will lose all that time and effort you put in. It wants to keep you sick! At least I know mine did! But you really are stronger than you think you are! Just think how strong you are,....now triple that! That's the strength you have.....enough power to knock that stinking thinking right out of the park! Anytime you feel defeated.....just come here and talk about it.....or read some threads. It will rejuvenate you. I love what somebody said here,....that if those using thoughts slip in just tell yourself kratom is not an option.....next....signaling that you need to get up and do something else. Eat ice cream....drink coffee....take a walk....meditate.....write a gratitude list...or go to a meeting..anything....but just don't use! You have lots of options....and only one thing that you can't do. So that leaves a lot of nexts right? Btw don't let your addiction tell you"oh you aren't a real addict.....kratom isn't like crack or heroine or pills even.....so I'm not that bad! It's not the substance that makes it worse or better than someone else.....it's the addiction part of it. Ok so don't let it fool you! Believe me.....I've heard it all from my own addict voice. Ha!
Big hugs!

You can and will do this! Ok....I know you have it in you.....cause you are right....kratom is poison....and it did mess with your system. It's no different than H if you really think about it!

BadSneakers

Thank you so much for your words of encouragement, CleaninLI. You have no idea how much they mean.

Fortunately now I feel no temptation to use. But the psychological aspects of this are eating away at me. I go between depression and anxiety - it's difficult to do anything. I'm glad I took a leave from work, because I can't imagine working like this. I don't enjoy watching anything, I can't get into my online games - I try to force myself but it's ridiculously difficult. I live alone and that makes it much more difficult. I wish I could get away, but I'm in the middle of home renovations which are also freaking me out.

Sorry for rambling. I know this is all just my brain chemistry repairing itself, but right now I feel like I'm in the middle of a nightmare that will never end.

cleaninLI

Yes badsneaker! How silly of me! You are right. Now thinking back to my first 3 or 4 weeks off I was a nut job! The anxiety I had was out of this world! All I could do all day every day was pace around my house it was so bad. First, I was physically ill vomiting....headaches....body aches....but then the anxiety! OMG I was all doom and gloom! I had a fear of everything....especially dying for some reason. Yes it is a crippling stage! I think it did start lifting around the mid third or forth week. Around that time I started feeling glimpses of hope and normalcy. I had to be so careful what I read or watched on TV though for at least a couple months because anything would bring it on. I think that was the time I read something about mindfullness in the anxiety section. That really helped me get through it. Telling myself it was my brain healing.....and learning that mindfullness technique. Those two things really helped me.

Awe, I wish I could shake you out of that stage....but It does end....yes for sure.....if you can just hang in there and maybe read the anxiety section.....or learn mindfullness and/or meditation. It really helps. Keep posting we are here for you okay?

BadSneakers

I keep thinking back to my experience kicking a pharmaceutical opiate habit about 10 years ago. I remind myself that at 2 weeks I was still a basket case then and that was an easier (not easy, but easier than this has been for me) kick for me. The first 3 days of WD from this was just ridiculous. Anyhow, I recall it took a good month before I acted like a normal person way back then. So I have to keep reminding myself that it's only been 15 days and to try to be patient. That I am much, MUCH better today than I was last Saturday. And hopefully next Saturday I will be better than I am today.

Thanks for listening, I really appreciate it.

Ashamedof

Bad sneakers, I understand that horrid and crippling anxiety! I'm still having it and I'm going into week 4 with exercise but I do drink a ton of coffee, so...that's not helping I'm sure. I know how lonely it can get too. I live with my husband but he has no clue what's happening to me right now. I read that kratom wds can be worse than man made opiates. I'm sorry , but like these great people always tell me, you're never alone! You have all of us going through it, been through it or about to go through it. Keep posting, it helps to just vent!

Congratulations on your clean time too! You should feel very proud of yourself. Kicking anything (especially opiates) is no small feat. It takes every ounce of energy to get through it.

BadSneakers

Ashamedof, thank you for your comments. I have been reading your thread as well and can certainly empathize with what you are going through. I hope you stay strong because you are worth it. This is a tough road to trudge, but our brains are slowly repairing themselves after long periods of having their normal chemistry disrupted.

4 weeks is awesome, by the way. I am very proud of you.

cleaninLI

I like this! Reminding yourself that it has only been 15 days and how you are much, much better than last Saturday and you will be even better by next Saturday. Yes that isn't just a hopefully....it's a definite.

Although you will find some days where you feel you've taken some steps backward......that's normal.....overall you are moving forward. So don't become alarmed if a few bad days are sprinkled in there.....they will become fewer and farther between as you stack up your days.

I read somewhere on here....not sure where about how each time we go thru withdrawal it becomes worse and worse. I feel that was the case for me. My first go at it.....I did not have the crippling anxiety that I had this last time. Thank God we never have to go thru this again. I always think to myself I don't think I have another relapse left in me.....if I ever had to go thru this again....I doubt I'd survive.

Love that you've got some plans for today.

Take care!