four812

How is the tapering going? How much have you taken today so far? How much will you take? Did you live within your tapering plan yesterday?

Just questions that seem pertinent to you. Rhetorical questions if you like.

Keep up the good work and I hope you stick to your plan. And I hope your "addict-mind" doesn't want to have one last party before quit date. That's my dilemma

lablife

Snowflake, I came off of oxy. Had been on it for 2 years, and it was my first time stopping. Honestly I was expecting a lot more pain after reading what other people went through. But it wasn't that bad, I just felt really off for about 4 days. I'm not saying it was easy by any means, I flushed over 500 pills the VA had mailed me, and that was hands down the worst part. I think mentally if you prepare yourself now, the better off you will be when the time comes. I don't have any family, and just relocated to Florida, so I had nobody but my dogs, and for me just doing what I normally do made the time fly by. Good luck my friend, and I'm here anytime you need me.

FT

My addict brain just WEEPS for those 500 flushed pills.

It's times like this that I realize my "addict brain" is still alive and well, and listening with his ear to the ground. Just in CASE I slip.

That's the final piece of unsolicited advice I have for you -- lablife is right, get RID of any "extras" you might keep in hand "just in case." You can't take what you don't have. Make sure you cut off ALL access to your drug. I am year away from any opiates in my system, and I have no intention of using, but if I were alone in a room with oxys and no one could see me do it -- YEP, addict brain would probably still "win."

Sad. Never knew this self-destructive piece of me even existed until opiates came along.

lablife

Sorry FT, didn't mean to bring up any memories. I wasn't really sad about it, just knew that it was the end of something that I was use to. Felt weird.

snowflake74

My taper is not going well, honestly. It's kind of a weird situation. I used up my hydrocodone 10/325 too soon, and I don't want to show up early to the pharmacy and possibly get flagged for asking for my refill too early, so I'm only taking my oxy 30 mg's. But those are obviously stronger and all I can do is half and quarter the pills. But so far I'm only halving them and since it's a totally different pill and dosage, I don't know how to "convert" it in my mind to what I would need to be taking if it was hydro 10/325 so as to still be tapering in the same way I would be if I was only taking hydros (and plus I'm not really motivated to figure it out too much). So that was a long way to say I'm not sure I even am tapering

But I still intend to be clean on May 23rd even if it means I go cold turkey so I'm not too worried about it (maybe that's just me rationalizing not tapering).

Flushing remaining pills is gonna be an issue. Whereas you had 500 pills, I'm gonna have about 175. Last time I quit I flushed somewhere around that amount, and I'm sad to say there is a big part of me that still regrets doing that, even though I'm trying to quit it. How messed up is that?

I don't intend to get rid of my supply this time. The thing is... even if I flush them, I still have access. I can just call in a refill, or if I really want to, just tell my doc I decided to get back on. To do otherwise means risking being flagged by the pharmacy (getting them to delete my script / refills) and there's no WAY I'm doing that. So for now, I intend to quit and still have a large supply. I know, it's a terrible plan. It's setup for relapse. I know these things. But I don't think access is the problem. I'm the problem. I need to fix me, regardless if I have access or not. An alcoholic trying to be sober can always hit up a bar or go to the store and buy beer. He/she would always have access. I may change my mind in the future, but for now, this is where I'm at.

FT

It's interesting watching you go through the motions of "tapering" and discussing your opiate use "rationally" as though you actually have total control over your use. I did all that, too. In the back of my mind, my real plan was to have the comfort of knowing I had opiates around all the time "just in case" I couldn't handle it. I planned to always have a supply.

Fast forward to multiple attempts to stop using. What killed it every time? Access. Why should I feel sick when I didn't have to? (Of course "I" killed it every time, but at 3 in the morning, having pills in the house already was much better access than having to get in my car, go wait in the pharmacy, and come back home again -- all while feeling dope sick.)

Just objectively, to me you seem to be in that "bargaining phase" where you can still hold "civil" conversations with your "addict brain" and come to a happy agreement. That all changes if and when your "rational brain" starts winning and the "addict brain" begins to feel threatened. Addicts commonly start using the alcohol analogy to justify their immediate access to opiates. Lots of us who no longer use "could" get a script if we wanted one -- so, technically we all have access, too. But few of us would keep pills around that could threaten our status as non-users.

In the end, you are either an opiate-user or you're not. A non-opiate-user does not need a supply hanging around. I know it makes you feel somehow safe or comfortable for now, a buffer for those emergency withdrawals that might be a lot worse than you thought they were going to be. If you went into the home of an alcoholic and found a well stocked wet bar, what would you think?

Once you self identify as a non-substance/opiate-user, the rest becomes far easier. There are no more decisions about how much to keep around, whether to keep it around, and especially whether you will ever use again. Lots of people who consider themselves "sober" are merely "paused." There is a difference.

Druwyd

Snow, I've not spoken up much on your threads the last few days. You're determined in your point of view and don't seem interested in entertaining divergent perspectives. But, to be blunt, you seem to be headed down the path of rationalization and denial. Tapering is all well and good but the pain of withdrawal is inevitable if you truly wish to quit. It sucks, it's physically, emotionally and mentally miserable but it ends. Going to half 30's is a reversal where you are only extending the torture. I wish you luck and good fortune.

lablife

Snow, this idea sounds bad. I'm a pretty strong person and really haven't had a lot of thoughts of using as of yet. But if I was sitting at home hanging out by the pool and had pills with me, I'm not sure what I would do". So for me to say that I'm not sure, tells me that it would be a very bad idea to have them around. I wish you all the best and am pulling for ya, but I would seriously give your plan some deep thought. We just want the best outcome possible for you.

snowflake74

FT your message is really resonating with me. I'm going to let that marinate in my brain a little bit. Folks, I don't want to seem cut-off or uninterested in divergent views. Please don't think that. I know this plan sucks and I'm open to changing it. I'm not resolute in what I'm doing. The only thing I'm resolute in is that I need to be clean starting in 5 days.

Druwyd

Snow...being resolute is 95 percent of the battle imo. I'm not even thinking the original plan is/was bad....what I was trying to point out was the execution is/was starting to look shaky. Execution errors shot me down previously so it seemed prudent to spotlight it. I will be pulling for you.

TiredEnough

Snowflake, I think you know deep down this plan is unworkable. What FT said is exactly right.

Mamahawk

Snowflake you can't keep the pills and get clean. I'm on day 4 cold turkey quitting a 20 year habit that has culminated in me taking 12-14 10s at once every day. I've taken a whole 50 pill rx in 24 hours. There is no end to where you are headed. This doesn't stop. I've finally come to realize only I can stop this. And cutting off access is key. I couldn't even get them from docs hardly anymore. I was getting them off the street at 7$ each and spending all my hardworking husbands money on it. You can not have access and be well if you are an addict.

purechaos

I dont think its fair to say he cannot get clean with access to pills.... I think its more fair to say it will be incredibly difficult to get clean. My husband has had a bottle of cough medicine with codine in it sitting in my bathroom cupboard for a few weeks... before I would have been sneaking sips or trying to convince him I needed it for some reason... now I know its there and thats that.

Snow the thing is that once your body and mind start to withdrawal you will easily be convinced that you can have just a little bit (you will know in your head that taking a pill will take away your misery) what is difficult though is knowing that even just a little bit during detox is detrimental and will bring you back to step 1... even taking 1/100th of what you were taking before resets the process... your body then learns that if it holds out long enough you will supply it with what it thinks it needs. During all of that if there is a full supply of pills sitting in the next room it is going to be VERY VERY difficult to not ease your symptoms... impossible no... improbable yes. I have faith it can be done.. and I hope you understand that all these people are talking from experience... They have all had that battle in their heads...they all know that if they had pills in the next room they would not likely be where they are in their recovery. No matter what this is a personal journey that may have similarities to other peoples journeys but this one is yours. You will only find as much success as your willing to find... It will become a battle of the mind and obviously you are a smart man and you know that the mind is very very powerful... It can quickly and easily take over your recovery process... You have a couple more days.... what have you been doing as far as the pills? Have you been weening down at all, taking them like before, just curious where you are at. Keep faith... and be strong.

snowflake74

I know. I agree with everything you guys are saying and I would counsel another person to do the exact same thing. And I still might destroy my stockpile. Here's the thing: If I was SURE I'd be done enough with the withdrawals by Tuesday ENOUGH to go back to work and be well enough to work, then I would destroy it now. But I'm not sure. And if Tuesday comes, and I'm vomiting or sweating profusely or going #2 uncontrollably, I'm getting back on the pills, so I can return to work. Once I have a longer vacation time I will try again. I wish I didn't have to consider that, but that's my reality. It doesn't mean I don't want to get clean or planning to fail. I'm not saying I'd hang onto my stockpile weeks after I'm clean. I'm just saying I need to hold onto it until I know I've fully detoxed and the withdrawals are over. I realize when I'm detoxing is the time I shouldn't have access the most, but I don't have the luxury of laying at home still sick next week if this doesn't work out. I HAVE to go to work on Tuesday. I pray I will go back clean, but if it doesn't work out that way, I'm ok with that. Life goes on, and I will try again.

Mamahawk

I can't say how you will react to WDs...I'm the past I personally had severe diareahhea. LIQUID Imodium is best for that but I had to take a little extra. I didn't have that this time surprisingly. But I haven't slept since Saturday night. And my back has been killing me. Bout to start day 5. It's hard. Really hard. I haven't even begun to deal with the mental. Usually it's the worst but I'm facing it differently this time so I guess mindset plays a huge role in the mental part.

Druwyd

Snow...sounds like you're being honest with yourself and that, imo, is one of THE MOST critical aspects of the war you are fighting. I tip my hat to you, you are on the right track provided you are prepared for the whispering and rationalizations that your mind will engage in. Now, if you had a timelock safe you could drop the pills into for the cold turkey days, that would be ideal though a bit of an expensive item. In my experience, for what it is worth, the odds are strongly in your favor, with four days of cold turkey, that you will be able to function, if maybe not at 100 percent efficiency, at work on day five.

Marcus

My experience has been if I leave the door open I am going to walk through it. I am not saying you are wrong etc. because I have been in your position too many times to count and done the same thing so I would be a complete hypocrite to tell you otherwise. What I can say from my experience with over 2 years clean now for me the job that I was so dearly hanging onto was just barely supporting my habit so it was really just prolonging the inevitable. I had to pull out all of the stops and realize me getting clean was MORE important than the job. Not saying it is that way for you, but I actually lost my job and am in no way saying that is what everyone needs because it is not, but it was the wake up call of all wake up calls. I am now clean and have a better job than I had before and am not carrying the same baggage I had before to my work and my coworkers. Whatever does happen each situation is different, but just know if you keep giving yourself outs and keep finding a reason to use the normal reaction is to use and to keep digging that hole a little deeper. Best of luck to you!!!

snowflake74

Mamahawk if you can do this, I can. You are so inspiring. I am stocked with Immodium and for sleep what works for me is "sleep aid" which is just a double dose of benedryl (diphenhydramine). It's never NOT knocked me out like a light bulb. My resolve is strong, but I know that's easy to say when you're feeling good. But I need to reclaim my life back and this is the week for me to do it. I have not made it any easier for me this week with my failed taper plan, but it doesn't mean I still can't be successful. I might be posting on here at an annoying frequency - I ask permission ahead of time to saturate myself on this site in the next few weeks because you good people are all I have. Any victories I (hopefully) claim in the upcoming days, I can't share with the people who are actually in my life. I have to somehow pretend that I have not gone through hell and am (hopefully) on my way back. I will need to rely on the kindness and charity of you all for strength. Thank you all ahead of time.

Mamahawk

Oh snowflake. I wish we could talk. I to his it from those dear to me but for me one huge hurdle to getting clean has been that one thing. I could never get clean as ling as I was a stranger to my family. I personally had to finally bare my soul to them. It's been a huge hurdle in my mindset of getting clean. I can't take Benadryl because I abused it with my Vic's. A bottle a day. It doesn't knock me out it amps me up. I'm just going to have to wait for sleep. I know it will come.

Mamahawk

Excuse typos please...sleep deprived and hurting. 15 minutes until day 5.