ksaun

Hope this is the right place to post this. I have an ex-friend that is a heroin addict. I did eveything I could to help her, including driving her to the meth clinic every day to get her dose, drive her to work, to see her daughter and be her shoulder to cry on.

She would always lie to me, make plans with me then break them at the last minute to go hang out with her addict BF and cousin and treat me like crap alot of the time. At first I didn't get upset about it but as time went on she would do these things over and over again. So I would get mad at her and talk to her about it, not yell or scream but talk. To make a long story short, she got mad at me for getting mad at her for how she was treating me.

She wanted us to go our separate ways and I agreed at the time. My question is, is this normal behavior for an addict?

My ex-friend really seems to hate me over this and I just don't understand it. Is this something that she will get past if she gets clean? I guess what I'm asking is, is it the drugs that make her this irrational or is it something in her personality?

I just trying to find some answers, because I really don't see why anyone would get that upset at someone because they would get upset at them for how they were treating someone and that person tried to TALK to them about it.

Can anyone explain this to me please? Why would she hate me sooo much over this, I don't get it.

Thanks

P.S. I wanted to get other addicts perspectives on this thats why I posted here.

jane_668

Ksaun, I don't think your friend hates you. You're a great friend. She's just sick . I could not really plan any event ahead of time because I diddnot know whether I'd be sick from wds or too high. Addicts are different than normal people and it's hard for you to undertsand. Being under the influence, nothing becomes rational anymore. It would all be about using and finding means to use more or else she'd be dopesick. She probably don't want to hang with you because she doesnot want to quit using. You cannot make her get clean or love you. She'll chose drugs over you ,her family and her best interest. This is not about you. Until she's sick of using ,there's little you can do for her.

Tish28

I got mad, when my exhusband and son put me into forced rehab. They told me over and over again, that it was for me. Unfortunately it was not good enough, and I got madder. Even when I got clean, six weeks later, my head wasn't ready. I couldn't see straight. So you see, you cannot help her until SHE realises that that's what she wants.
Whatever you do, don't feel bad. She will remember you when she decides to get clean. One thing having your body free of drugs, if your mind still wants them, there's no hope.

Buzz Kilowatt

You might ask yourself, "what am I getting out of this relationship"?

It doesn't look like much - or certainly not much that is good - from what you have written.

There are givers and takers in this life. It has taken me awhile to reach this point, but I decide when I am going to endure a one-way relationship with someone who is not going to reciprocate. Usually I try to avoid toxic people like the plague.

You can't "fix" an addict, or anyone with a personality disorder, no matter how hard you try. If you can accept this limitation, then you can rationally decide if you want someone like her in your life.

I don't mean to sound harsh. I just don't think can expect much from this individual. Unless she takes steps on her own to come to terms with her addiction and the behaviors that are associated with it, the best predictor of future behavior will be her past behavior.

Buzz

windysan

don't hang around feral people. they still have rabies.

bval

People in active addiction do not think or behave like rational people, it's that simple. And pushing people away who disapprove of their using or who are trying to get in the way of the disease is *really* common. By sorta 'letting her go' for now, you may actually be doing her a favor ... usually its the sense of 'losing things that are important to us' that spurs people on to get well, and friends who leave one's life can certainly qualify as a 'loss'.

Bottom-line don't take it personal. Active addicts are very selfish and irrational. It's the disease talking ksaun...

kj3880

Yes, it sounds like typical addict behavior. Actually, it sounds like typical disfunctional-person defensive behavior. When we know we have wronged someone and we have a disfunctional style of relating to others, we become angry with them. This allows us to take the focus off of what we did and our guilty feelings about it and just feel anger instead. It's part of the codependency dance.

She's doing you a big favor by leaving you alone at this point. Windy is right, if you keep hanging out with her, you will end up "catching fleas."

Probably she will bring her needles or drugs into your car when you give her a ride one day and you could get pulled over. Then she'll ditch it under the seat while the officer is walking up to the car. Then maybe he'll spot the syringe poking out from under the seat and lock you up and impound the car permanently.

Or, while she's crying on your shoulder, she'll pick your back pocket.

Either way, cut her loose until she gets clean for a while.

Love,
KJ

CrackQuack

She's sick. She hates herself but she is directing that hatred toward you.
Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do, but be there for her, if you WANT to be and she WANTS you to be.
Addicts cannot change or quit using for anyone other than themselves. Once they decide to stop using, they must do it solely for themselves. Just like when they used, they used for themselves.
It's a hugely selfish cycle and I am sorry you are in the mix, so to speak.
Just be grateful for the fact that if you were to continue being friends with her, in active addiction, you're missing out on losing your car, life, money, and well being.. Just think about it. You could be taking her somewhere and she could have drugs on her. A felony. You could get arrested with her, go to jail, lose your car... Lose a lot of money. Or some dealer could kill you both if they saw ya, and she had wronged them.. All kinds of bad can happen when being with an addict in active addiction..
I know it's hard to understand, but we're just not rational people. Especially in active addiction.

christin1225

ksaun,

And this post is a good example of how hard and hopeless life can seem to an addict, even when she wants to get clean. Tish, there is hope, sweetie. It just doesn't feel like there is sometimes.

If you can stay within calling distance, ksaun, to be there when your friend is ready to get clean, that's awesome, even if it's just to point her in the direction of other recovering addicts. Actually, I should say especially if you will point her in the direction of recovering addicts. Drugs mess a person up so much that I don't think that there's anyway to determine how much is a personality defect and how much might be due to the drugs. I'm assuming that you saw something worthwhile in this friend that made you interested in helping her. So, maybe that's an indication that her behavior is soley due to her addiction. Addicts become someone whom we don't recognize ourselves.

I wish you the best. You sound like a really kind person.

ksaun

Thanks everyone. Its just not easy to understand the irrational behavior of someone you care about. Especially when they say things to you like What you did was "Unforgivable" or I have no feelings for you what so ever, good or bad"

I know thats not the truth, but it doesn't mean it hurts any less when someone you care about says that kind of stuff to you.

I knew that when she said it she was still really pissed at me, I could see it in her face. But I think she just wanted me out of her life and wanted to say the thing that she thought would hurt me most.

I don't hate her and I still have faith that someday she will get her life together but for now I really thing it is best if I stay away from her as much as possible for both our sakes.

tsukiko

You know you don't hate her, she only thinks she hates you. That, in a nut shell, is the difference between being sober and being a junkie...speaking as an individual heroin addict and not for every H addict out there.

Addiction changes how we veiw, process and react to emotion. Peeps will probably not like me saying this, but an addict is like a fully grown child a lot of the time - they over react and often struggle or refuse to see any argument other than their own.

The reason?

Well, a lot of junkies are constantly on the defensive around non-using mates because they're living in junky land and you're living in sober land...two vey different realms. Junkies learn to expect people around them to critise, yet they often ain't prepared or emotionally equiped to deal with it when it happens.

Would sobriety change that? Maybe, maybe not. It's impossible to know, but however selfish a person is naturally it can only intensify with a heroin addiction thrown into the mix.

Way I see it...

She wants you out of her life right now because you're challenging her life style and rather than reflect on that in a rational manner (as many non-users might) her first instinct (as a junky) is to silence the voice that does that - that questions her behaviour or makes her question herself.

That's the seed of junky logic: Kill the symptoms and hide the cause. Escape anything that could potentially mean facing yourself, what you're doing, who you are and why.

She's lucky to have you, to have ever had you.

One of my two closest friends (while i was using) chose to cut all communication with me and the other still says that she doesn't mind whether i use or not 'long as i never rob her'. When I hit rock bottom I went straight to the mate who had cut me off, who'd challenged me when i was using....because she saw through my bull sh!t and I couldn't anymore: I knew I could trust her to see for me until I was clean enough to start doing it for myself.

Stay strong and don't second guess yourself.

sailorjohn

welcome!!!

If you do some reading in the Friends & Family forum you will read your story over and over again.

Keep coming back, you'll find a lot of support here.

ksaun

Got one more question. One of the reasons I would get upset with her was because she wasn't doing what she needed to be doing for her recovery. But when I told her that was one of the reasons and the reason I was getting upset is because I cared about her. She told me it wasn't my place to care about her.

I thought thats what friends were supposed to do, is care about their friends? So why didn't she want me to even care about her?

serenityqueen

When I was using, I didn't think I was worthy of anyone's love, especially the people who genuinely cared about me. Although we don't show it, when we're using, we hate ourselves and everything we stand for. I felt like the most worthless piece of sh*t. I didn't deserve to be around people who cared about me because I didn't care about myself.

Drugs and alcohol are a very, very powerful force when one is an addict/alcoholic in active addiction. As much as we hate the drugs, we cannot live without them.

I think the reason you're friend got so mad at you is because you were telling her things she knows is the truth. I knew everytime I was messing up in my Recovery when I wasn't doing the right thing and the last thing I wanted was someone pointing it out, especially someone who isn't an addict/alcoholic. As much as I wanted to be clean and sober, I resented people who were. I was jealous that they could live a life on a day to day basis without the obsession and exhausting job of keeping enough dope to stop me from being dope sick.

I have been in a Methadone Clinic since July of 2005. I see so many people who simply go get their dose and think they are cured or something. The Methadone is only a very small part of the recipe for a life happy, joyous and free. For me, it took going to AA and NA, getting a Sponsor, an IOP Program, working the Steps harder than I ever worked for anything in my life, finding a God of my understanding and, one of the hardest things, being honest and willing to go to any length.

I think you did the best thing by stepping aside for now. Until she surrenders, there is nothing anyone can do.

God Bless You,
Judy

tommyk

Misery loves company?

And maybe you are not miserable enough anymore?

ksaun

I guess what I am asking is, if she gets clean and sober. Will she stop hating me and realize I was actually trying to help her or isn't it that just wishful thinking?

The reason I'm asking this is because she is back in a meth clinic and from what I can see, she seems to be doing better than before when I was trying to help her. She always used to wear a hair scrunchie on her arm where she shot up and she doesn't anymore. She always used to doze off and I don't see her doing that anymore either. Which seems promissing, but she seems to hate me even more now than she did before when she was going to the meth clinic and using heroin at the same time.

I guess what I'm asking is how long did it take for any of you to start seeing things more clearly and forgive the people that were trying to help you?

jane_668

.

I agree with Jody. The best thing is to step aside and let her deal with her own stuff. Maybe she needs sometime with herself to reorganize her priorities. When you're waking up the day after the storm with so many wreckage, the first thing would be cleaning up the mess. Or, she may not be shooting but still on other drugs. Some addicts lie so long that they start believing their own lies. Don't get into her life details. You will be exhausted and she will bring you down with her. She's a sick person who needs lots of help that you cannot provide. You will only be enabling her. I'm sure if you step aside for a while, she'll feel that she has lost you and she'll try to make it for you. Or maybe not, she will spiral even more out of control and end up being dead somewhere. You see the point I'm trying to make here?! There's lots of possobilities with active addiction and it's too exhausting.

Just a question, why are you insisting on helping her and being around her though she doesnot want any help ,from what you're saying here? Could it be that helping here makes you feel better about yourself? Just think about your unconscious motives here.
Love
Jane

ksaun

I completely agree with everyone, I already have distanced myself from her. I know I can't fix her or help her. I was just trying to see if the reason she was saying and acting the ways she had been was due to her being an addict or not. And was wondering IF she got clean and sober if I could still expect her to hate me like she seems to now or would she realize she lost a good friend and want me back in her life?

I haven't seen or talked to her in weeks. I guess I'm just trying to figure out why she would say and do such hurtful, mean things to someone that was trying to help her and be a good friend to her.

I still want nothing but the best for her, but I can't be around her now. I still worry about her though.

I guess I am trying to find rational reasons for irrational behavior, But alot of what you all have said makes alot of sence to me and it helps to know I'm not going crazy.

bval

Wow, look at tsukiko, coming in from out of the blue!

How you been girl?

ksaun

IF she got clean and sober, should I still expect her to hate me like she seems to now or would she realize she lost a good friend and want me back in her life?

The reason I'm asking is I am at the point where I don't know whether to cut my losses and give up on ever having a healthy friendship with her or if I should still have some hope that once she is clean and sober that she may want to try to fix things between us and stop hating me?

What was it like for you once you finally got clean? Did you try to fix those relationships you destroyed or reconnect with the ones you pushed away? And if so how long did that take? Was it months, years, decades?

I guess what I'm asking is do I give up on ever being friends with her again?

I don't want to, but I am a realist. If there is no chance she will ever come around even after she is clean and sober, what is the point?