how to stop oxy
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: canada
Posts: 167
Hi all my friends, tommorow is the big day that I get to meet with the addictionologist to ask him for help to rid myself of these pills, Ive cut back by about 4-5 less pills per day since ive been on this site and have been reading posts on here like crazy. I am lucky to get an appointment with him so quickly but i guess the detox manager who is a really nice man got me the appointment really quick as he says he does not want my short addiction to oxy to get out of hand, he says its always better to nip it in the but early in the game before years pass and this lifestyle becomes normal, I dont want that to happen.
he said he will provide me with weekly meetings with the dr to see how the taper is going and will prob provide me with some anti anxiety meds to deal with the emotions short term.Im really pumped up to meet him tommorow and get this ball rolling, the sooner the better as I hate my life right now and must change it or else im not sure i want to live with this nasty addiction, its the first time in my life that i think that I wish I was never born....as you can tell, my emotions are riding pretty unstable right now, I need all of the encouragement that I can get......man I feel sad....
he said he will provide me with weekly meetings with the dr to see how the taper is going and will prob provide me with some anti anxiety meds to deal with the emotions short term.Im really pumped up to meet him tommorow and get this ball rolling, the sooner the better as I hate my life right now and must change it or else im not sure i want to live with this nasty addiction, its the first time in my life that i think that I wish I was never born....as you can tell, my emotions are riding pretty unstable right now, I need all of the encouragement that I can get......man I feel sad....
Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 21
Scared, I just finished what you're about to embark upon. Want the #1 piece of advice? You NEED a partner for this to work. In reading this thread, I saw no mention of a wife or girlfriend or kids; let me assume for a minute that you are married. If so, you have to have a heart-to-heart with the wife. If she loves you, and I'm sure she does, she WILL want to help you through this. I know my wife was my ROCK throughout my situation...you NEED to have someone very close to you manage you and guide you through this.
When I was tapering off oxycontin, which is the SAME stuff as percs, just long-release form, my wife would dispense my meds at the proper times. I NEVER had the pills in my possession, and just to make sure, she bought a heavy-duty lockbox that was keyed, no combination to try and crack the code! Even so, when she went to work, the meds went with her; no drugs, no temptation.
And YES, there were days during my taper that I felt horrible, physically AND mentally...YES, there were days that thoughts of ending it all DID cross my mind. What did I do? I instead thought about how many people would miss me, and YES, even our 3-year old dog, as we don't/couldn't have children. I thought about how much HE, yes, the dog, would miss his daddy! And YES, I'd cry like a little child when I thought about how much that would hurt others if I bailed out. THOSE thoughts got me through those tough days...
Also, you would pleasantly surprised how family will want to HELP you get through this crisis. I'm sure that they don't think of you now as a "druggie", and since percs are prescription drugs, there isn't the "stigma" that hardcore stuff has. If anything, if your percs were rx'd for a legit condition, all they would have to do is google oxycodone addiction to realize just how easy it is for perfectly normal people to get hooked on this stuff. So, try to be upfront and honest with everyone.
Good luck to you, and whatever you think, IT WILL GET BETTER!
When I was tapering off oxycontin, which is the SAME stuff as percs, just long-release form, my wife would dispense my meds at the proper times. I NEVER had the pills in my possession, and just to make sure, she bought a heavy-duty lockbox that was keyed, no combination to try and crack the code! Even so, when she went to work, the meds went with her; no drugs, no temptation.
And YES, there were days during my taper that I felt horrible, physically AND mentally...YES, there were days that thoughts of ending it all DID cross my mind. What did I do? I instead thought about how many people would miss me, and YES, even our 3-year old dog, as we don't/couldn't have children. I thought about how much HE, yes, the dog, would miss his daddy! And YES, I'd cry like a little child when I thought about how much that would hurt others if I bailed out. THOSE thoughts got me through those tough days...
Also, you would pleasantly surprised how family will want to HELP you get through this crisis. I'm sure that they don't think of you now as a "druggie", and since percs are prescription drugs, there isn't the "stigma" that hardcore stuff has. If anything, if your percs were rx'd for a legit condition, all they would have to do is google oxycodone addiction to realize just how easy it is for perfectly normal people to get hooked on this stuff. So, try to be upfront and honest with everyone.
Good luck to you, and whatever you think, IT WILL GET BETTER!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: canada
Posts: 167
Well, I met with the addiction dr today, a super nice man, but, who means buisness, Its the first time that a dr took the time to find out who i am, I was there for two hours with him. He asked all the questions, weather i was using any other type of drugs, alcohol, cigarettes you name it. I dont drink alcohol and dont use any other drugs, for that matter ive only seen a dr maybe five times in my life. He checked my blood pressure, which was perfect. He then perscribed me oxycontin 40mg to be taken three times a day, and told me this would keep me from buying on the street and maybe getting busted by the police and in my buisness it would ruin me. He said he wants me on a steady dose of oc for a week and instructed me to use no percs or immidiate release meds as these are too much of a positive reinforcement type medication and told me he wants me on s comfortable dose for a week or two that is constant but not enough to get me high like chewing the oc or taking the percs, so no up and downs. I will meet him hext week where he will see how im doing and will decide weather to reduce my dose slightly of not. He told me his goal for now is to try and switch me from oc to a combo of oc and morphine and eventually only on morphine in the form of codine contin, a much less potent opiate. He reasured me that his means of tapering is very successful in patients like myself and that this is a slow process as geting to the dose I am taking took time to build the tolerance. He also said if we are weaning off slowly enough that i should only notice the dose reduction slightly for a day when he reduces the dose.
I am very excited that he is so positive, and willing to help me rid myself of these devils. I will meet with him once per week for a few hours, and is free in canada and my insurance pays for the meds. I am so relieved that I dont have to go to that drug dealer anymore. very positive. I also have his cell # if I run into problems. The dr calls in the perscription to the pharmacy and I get a weeks worth of meds at a time. he also asked me to take notes during the week of any negative experiences I may encounter and we will go over them when we meet the next time....
I am very excited that he is so positive, and willing to help me rid myself of these devils. I will meet with him once per week for a few hours, and is free in canada and my insurance pays for the meds. I am so relieved that I dont have to go to that drug dealer anymore. very positive. I also have his cell # if I run into problems. The dr calls in the perscription to the pharmacy and I get a weeks worth of meds at a time. he also asked me to take notes during the week of any negative experiences I may encounter and we will go over them when we meet the next time....
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: canada
Posts: 167
Forgot to mention, it feels kinda weird not to get the immidiate rush of chewing oc and percs to get that energy burst, this seems to just maintain me so i dont get withdrawls yet but dont feel the big burst of energy that I grew to love, it made me talk like crazy as I had the energy of ten men at the time but would come crashing down a few hours and would have to do it all over again. the biggest crash was in the morning, i hated the mornings as the drug only lasted 4 hours of energy wiith no probs to sleep as i always took it an hour before bed, just long enough before that i would feel great, but in the morn was feeling really ancy and uncomfortable until i crushed and ate some oc which would kick in within 10 min. Now I dont feel the big burst of energy but I also dont get the crash after 3-4 hours. its a totally different experience but a more normal way to spend the day, Im not always thinking about taking my next dose, its strange......There must be a method to his maddness....ill keep posting here as it helps alot to have the support of all of you in this new experience......
Disposable Hero
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Being, ME
Posts: 3,758
AM I AN ADDICT?
Only you can answer this question. This may not be an easy thing to do. All through our usage, we told ourselves, “I can handle it.” Even if this was true in the beginning, it is not so now. The drugs handled us. We lived to use and used to live. Very simply, an addict is a person whose life is controlled by drugs.
Perhaps you admit you have a problem with drugs, but you don’t consider yourself an addict. All of us have preconceived ideas about what an addict is. There is nothing shameful about being an addict once you begin to take positive action. If you can identify with our problems, you may be able to identify with our solution. The following questions were written by recovering addicts in Narcotics Anonymous. If you have doubts about whether or not you’re an addict, take a few moments to read the questions below and answer them as honestly as you can.
1. Do you ever use alone?
2. Have you ever substituted one drug for another, thinking that one particular drug was the problem?
3. Have you ever manipulated or lied to a doctor to obtain prescription drugs?
4. Have you ever stolen drugs or stolen to obtain drugs?
5. Do you regularly use a drug when you wake up or when you go to bed?
6. Have you ever taken one drug to overcome the effects of another?
7. Do you avoid people or places that do not approve of you using drugs?
8. Have you ever used a drug without knowing what it was or what it would do to you?
9. Has your job or school performance ever suffered from the effects of your drug use?
10. Have you ever been arrested as a result of using drugs?
11. Have you ever lied about what or how much you use?
12. Do you put the purchase of drugs ahead of your financial responsibilities?
13. Have you ever tried to stop or control your using?
14. Have you ever been in a jail, hospital, or drug rehabilitation center because of your using?
15. Does using interfere with your sleeping or eating?
16. Does the thought of running out of drugs terrify you?
17. Do you feel it is impossible for you to live without drugs?
18. Do you ever question your own sanity?
19. Is your drug use making life at home unhappy?
20. Have you ever thought you couldn’t fit in or have a good time without drugs?
21. Have you ever felt defensive, guilty, or ashamed about your using?
22. Do you think a lot about drugs?
23. Have you had irrational or indefinable fears?
24. Has using affected your sexual relationships?
25. Have you ever taken drugs you didn’t prefer?
26. Have you ever used drugs because of emotional pain or stress?
27. Have you ever overdosed on any drugs?
28. Do you continue to use despite negative consequences?
29. Do you think you might have a drug problem?
“Am I an addict?” This is a question only you can answer. We found that we all answered different numbers of these questions “Yes.” The actual number of “Yes” responses wasn’t as important as how we felt inside and how addiction had affected our lives. Some of these questions don’t even mention drugs. This is because addiction is an insidious disease that affects all areas of our lives—even those areas which seem at first to have little to do with drugs. The different drugs we used were not as important as why we used them and what they did to us.
If you are an addict, you must first admit that you have a problem with drugs before any progress can be made toward recovery. These questions, when honestly approached, may help to show you how using drugs has made your life unmanageable. Addiction is a disease which, without recovery, ends in jails, institutions, and death. Many of us came to Narcotics Anonymous because drugs had stopped doing what we needed them to do. Addiction takes our pride, self-esteem, family, loved ones, and even our desire to live. If you have not reached this point in your addiction, you don’t have to. We have found that our own private hell was within us. If you want help, you can find it in the Fellowship of Narcotics Anonymous.
Only you can answer this question. This may not be an easy thing to do. All through our usage, we told ourselves, “I can handle it.” Even if this was true in the beginning, it is not so now. The drugs handled us. We lived to use and used to live. Very simply, an addict is a person whose life is controlled by drugs.
Perhaps you admit you have a problem with drugs, but you don’t consider yourself an addict. All of us have preconceived ideas about what an addict is. There is nothing shameful about being an addict once you begin to take positive action. If you can identify with our problems, you may be able to identify with our solution. The following questions were written by recovering addicts in Narcotics Anonymous. If you have doubts about whether or not you’re an addict, take a few moments to read the questions below and answer them as honestly as you can.
1. Do you ever use alone?
2. Have you ever substituted one drug for another, thinking that one particular drug was the problem?
3. Have you ever manipulated or lied to a doctor to obtain prescription drugs?
4. Have you ever stolen drugs or stolen to obtain drugs?
5. Do you regularly use a drug when you wake up or when you go to bed?
6. Have you ever taken one drug to overcome the effects of another?
7. Do you avoid people or places that do not approve of you using drugs?
8. Have you ever used a drug without knowing what it was or what it would do to you?
9. Has your job or school performance ever suffered from the effects of your drug use?
10. Have you ever been arrested as a result of using drugs?
11. Have you ever lied about what or how much you use?
12. Do you put the purchase of drugs ahead of your financial responsibilities?
13. Have you ever tried to stop or control your using?
14. Have you ever been in a jail, hospital, or drug rehabilitation center because of your using?
15. Does using interfere with your sleeping or eating?
16. Does the thought of running out of drugs terrify you?
17. Do you feel it is impossible for you to live without drugs?
18. Do you ever question your own sanity?
19. Is your drug use making life at home unhappy?
20. Have you ever thought you couldn’t fit in or have a good time without drugs?
21. Have you ever felt defensive, guilty, or ashamed about your using?
22. Do you think a lot about drugs?
23. Have you had irrational or indefinable fears?
24. Has using affected your sexual relationships?
25. Have you ever taken drugs you didn’t prefer?
26. Have you ever used drugs because of emotional pain or stress?
27. Have you ever overdosed on any drugs?
28. Do you continue to use despite negative consequences?
29. Do you think you might have a drug problem?
“Am I an addict?” This is a question only you can answer. We found that we all answered different numbers of these questions “Yes.” The actual number of “Yes” responses wasn’t as important as how we felt inside and how addiction had affected our lives. Some of these questions don’t even mention drugs. This is because addiction is an insidious disease that affects all areas of our lives—even those areas which seem at first to have little to do with drugs. The different drugs we used were not as important as why we used them and what they did to us.
If you are an addict, you must first admit that you have a problem with drugs before any progress can be made toward recovery. These questions, when honestly approached, may help to show you how using drugs has made your life unmanageable. Addiction is a disease which, without recovery, ends in jails, institutions, and death. Many of us came to Narcotics Anonymous because drugs had stopped doing what we needed them to do. Addiction takes our pride, self-esteem, family, loved ones, and even our desire to live. If you have not reached this point in your addiction, you don’t have to. We have found that our own private hell was within us. If you want help, you can find it in the Fellowship of Narcotics Anonymous.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: canada
Posts: 167
Did you not read my post, I have gone for help because I cant stop them on my own which makes me an opiate addict, my problem is not admitting it, I did that when I went for help as hard as it was to admit I have a problem, sounds like you have a hard time to admit, or maybe believe you are an addict. I dont know. I own two homes for the mentally ill and I deal with drug abusers on a daily basis, I do not treat them but provide them with total government funding, a stable place to live long term. we judge no one......so yes I do understand what people on this site are going through, I just got caught up using the pain meds at the beginning for a torn rotator cuff and started to like the feeling of no pain and total energy, and after 7mos, I admit, i am an opiate addict seeking help so I will no longer be an addict....
Disposable Hero
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Being, ME
Posts: 3,758
Originally Posted by scaredtostp 
...oxycontin 40mg to be taken three times a day, and told me this would keep me from buying on the street and maybe getting busted by the police and in my buisness it would ruin me. He said he wants me on a steady dose of oc for a week and instructed me to use no percs or immidiate release meds as these are too much of a positive reinforcement type medication and told me he wants me on s comfortable dose for a week or two that is constant but not enough to get me high like chewing the oc or taking the percs, so no up and downs. I will meet him hext week where he will see how im doing and will decide weather to reduce my dose slightly of not. He told me his goal for now is to try and switch me from oc to a combo of oc and morphine and eventually only on morphine in the form of codine contin, a much less potent opiate.
i would rather take the risk of telling you the truth and possibly saving your life
then to sympathize with your problem and possibly contribute to your death.
Some French tart....
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Courville-sur-Eure. France.
Posts: 239
Hello,
I've been reading through this thread very carefully. Are you saying that what is needed to stop using is pure willpower and a 12 step attitude to life?
I too want out. I am on Subutex 8mg per day for codeine addiction. If I stop net, will my sheer willpower get me through? I desperately want to stop and am just afraid of the withdrawals. My head is very straight today and has been since Thursday of last week.The 12 steps make so much sense to me.
I had NO willpower over drugs and my life became completely unmanageable.
I had lost everything - my husband and my four sons and today I stand to lose the roof over my head BUT I am well and today I embrace life.
Goodluck scaredtostop. Get there. It's worth it.
Much love to everyone,
Ingrid :ghug
I've been reading through this thread very carefully. Are you saying that what is needed to stop using is pure willpower and a 12 step attitude to life?
I too want out. I am on Subutex 8mg per day for codeine addiction. If I stop net, will my sheer willpower get me through? I desperately want to stop and am just afraid of the withdrawals. My head is very straight today and has been since Thursday of last week.The 12 steps make so much sense to me.
I had NO willpower over drugs and my life became completely unmanageable.
I had lost everything - my husband and my four sons and today I stand to lose the roof over my head BUT I am well and today I embrace life.
Goodluck scaredtostop. Get there. It's worth it.
Much love to everyone,
Ingrid :ghug
Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 21
Scared, first let me say that we are all here for you, to offer as much support and advice as we can, so hang in there! That being said, there's a few things in your posts (#64 & 65) that confuse and concern me. Here goes.
1--I don't understand taking 6 months to taper off 120mg/day of oxy. To me, that's just delaying the inevitable mild w/d symptoms you're gonna have when you finish. Also, the longer you wait, the greater the temptation. I came off 160mg/day through a 10-week taper, with no major w/d issues.
2--Why he didn't make you bring in your percs is beyond me; to have that temptation available is crazy. Flush 'em down the toilet NOW!
3--Perhaps there was a misunderstanding, but morphine is FAR more potent than oxy. Codiene, yes it is milder than oxy, but codiene is NOT a form of morphine. Both opiates? Yes, but different beasts.
I would definitely get a second opinion from another specialist; preferably a pain management doctor. The length of your taper worries me a great deal, and while this may sound harsh, I'm just concerned that due to your socialized healthcare system in the Great White North (I'm from the USA), he's "milking it" to at least get some revenue. There IS a reasonable medium regarding the taper length; the longer it takes, the greater the temptation to give up, especially if your shoulder pain returns.
Ask both doctors about clonidine; it helps a great deal with w/d, and please avoid suboxone. All you're doing is substituting one opiate for another, and just review the posts here, you'll see many a person who feels that coming off suboxone is HARDER than coming off oxy, codiene, etc.
In the meantime, stick with the plan, but I'd definitely get a 2nd opinion.
1--I don't understand taking 6 months to taper off 120mg/day of oxy. To me, that's just delaying the inevitable mild w/d symptoms you're gonna have when you finish. Also, the longer you wait, the greater the temptation. I came off 160mg/day through a 10-week taper, with no major w/d issues.
2--Why he didn't make you bring in your percs is beyond me; to have that temptation available is crazy. Flush 'em down the toilet NOW!
3--Perhaps there was a misunderstanding, but morphine is FAR more potent than oxy. Codiene, yes it is milder than oxy, but codiene is NOT a form of morphine. Both opiates? Yes, but different beasts.
I would definitely get a second opinion from another specialist; preferably a pain management doctor. The length of your taper worries me a great deal, and while this may sound harsh, I'm just concerned that due to your socialized healthcare system in the Great White North (I'm from the USA), he's "milking it" to at least get some revenue. There IS a reasonable medium regarding the taper length; the longer it takes, the greater the temptation to give up, especially if your shoulder pain returns.
Ask both doctors about clonidine; it helps a great deal with w/d, and please avoid suboxone. All you're doing is substituting one opiate for another, and just review the posts here, you'll see many a person who feels that coming off suboxone is HARDER than coming off oxy, codiene, etc.
In the meantime, stick with the plan, but I'd definitely get a 2nd opinion.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: canada
Posts: 167
Hi guys, I respect everyones opinion and read each post very carefully, first, im not totally sure how suboxone works, from what I hear it works really well in blocking the wd associated with stopping opiates which is great imo. I dont think it would be trading one drug for another because you dont get high off subs, you also take a set amount of the drug, prescribed by a medical dr, not medicating yourself anymore, and hopefully not being involved in criminal activity to obtain the drug, it makes people normal. Some people only feel free when they beat the opiates and the subs. and some fell free on the subs, to each their own, i think taking subs for the rest of ones life is a lot safet than using opiates as you tolerance for opiates will go up and up.
All I did is went for help and im sure this dr im seeing has my best interests in mind, i dont think he is milking the system by dragging my taper on, all drs in this country are way over worked and the last thing they need is another patient..... to acuse him of milking the system is terrrible.... If my taper goes well, it may only take a few months, if not, it may take longer, who knows, everyones mind and body work differently.
When I said the dr will switch me from oc to morphine, what i meant to say ia codine, which our liver turns into morphine, sorry for the confusion....
All I did is went for help and im sure this dr im seeing has my best interests in mind, i dont think he is milking the system by dragging my taper on, all drs in this country are way over worked and the last thing they need is another patient..... to acuse him of milking the system is terrrible.... If my taper goes well, it may only take a few months, if not, it may take longer, who knows, everyones mind and body work differently.
When I said the dr will switch me from oc to morphine, what i meant to say ia codine, which our liver turns into morphine, sorry for the confusion....
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: canada
Posts: 167
Originally Posted by Tish28
Hello,
I've been reading through this thread very carefully. Are you saying that what is needed to stop using is pure willpower and a 12 step attitude to life?
I too want out. I am on Subutex 8mg per day for codeine addiction. If I stop net, will my sheer willpower get me through? I desperately want to stop and am just afraid of the withdrawals. My head is very straight today and has been since Thursday of last week.The 12 steps make so much sense to me.
I had NO willpower over drugs and my life became completely unmanageable.
I had lost everything - my husband and my four sons and today I stand to lose the roof over my head BUT I am well and today I embrace life.
Goodluck scaredtostop. Get there. It's worth it.
Much love to everyone,
Ingrid :ghug
I've been reading through this thread very carefully. Are you saying that what is needed to stop using is pure willpower and a 12 step attitude to life?
I too want out. I am on Subutex 8mg per day for codeine addiction. If I stop net, will my sheer willpower get me through? I desperately want to stop and am just afraid of the withdrawals. My head is very straight today and has been since Thursday of last week.The 12 steps make so much sense to me.
I had NO willpower over drugs and my life became completely unmanageable.
I had lost everything - my husband and my four sons and today I stand to lose the roof over my head BUT I am well and today I embrace life.
Goodluck scaredtostop. Get there. It's worth it.
Much love to everyone,
Ingrid :ghug
subs, as I understand them are designed to stop wd, and also there to help you live your life normally again and out of the opiate rollercoaster, they keep people from commiting criminal activity as buying opiates on the street, and commiting crimes to get money to buy the drugs. They allow you to lead a normal life with a perscribed drug.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 21
Scared, no need to apologize about the codiene/morphine thing.
To digress for a moment: I honestly didn't mean to imply the "milking" thing. I'm glad that you clarified the issue. Let me say that you Canadians are fine people, but it's examples like this which is why many of us Americans are vehemently against government-run healthcare. Us folks down here have read the horror stories of you folks having to wait months for specialist visits, routine procedures, etc. The problem is that healthcare as a whole shifted from being just that to becoming a profit-making enterprise, which is sickening. I don't begrudge the doctor who spent a decade learning medicine his income; I do have major issues with some MBA clown running a health insurance company purely to benefit their stockholders, not their insured customers. THOSE people are why healthcare is so damned expensive, not the medical professionals, per se.
To digress for a moment: I honestly didn't mean to imply the "milking" thing. I'm glad that you clarified the issue. Let me say that you Canadians are fine people, but it's examples like this which is why many of us Americans are vehemently against government-run healthcare. Us folks down here have read the horror stories of you folks having to wait months for specialist visits, routine procedures, etc. The problem is that healthcare as a whole shifted from being just that to becoming a profit-making enterprise, which is sickening. I don't begrudge the doctor who spent a decade learning medicine his income; I do have major issues with some MBA clown running a health insurance company purely to benefit their stockholders, not their insured customers. THOSE people are why healthcare is so damned expensive, not the medical professionals, per se.
Disposable Hero
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Being, ME
Posts: 3,758
Originally Posted by scaredtostp
subs, as I understand them are designed to stop wd, and also there to help you live your life normally again and out of the opiate rollercoaster, they keep people from commiting criminal activity as buying opiates on the street, and commiting crimes to get money to buy the drugs. They allow you to lead a normal life with a perscribed drug.
Yes, continued use of any mind or mood altering drug will stop withdrawl.
i can totally see how you wouldn't need to buy drugs on the street
if you are getting them from your doctor!
How does a drug keep anyone from committing criminal acts
if the the choice to commit a crime is a matter of moral choice?
If you want to recover, maybe we can help.
If you want to keep using, good luck with that.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: canada
Posts: 167
Originally Posted by Wolfchild
Yes, continued use of any mind or mood altering drug will stop withdrawl.
i can totally see how you wouldn't need to buy drugs on the street
if you are getting them from your doctor!
How does a drug keep anyone from committing criminal acts
if the the choice to commit a crime is a matter of moral choice?
If you want to recover, maybe we can help.
If you want to keep using, good luck with that.
i can totally see how you wouldn't need to buy drugs on the street
if you are getting them from your doctor!
How does a drug keep anyone from committing criminal acts
if the the choice to commit a crime is a matter of moral choice?
If you want to recover, maybe we can help.
If you want to keep using, good luck with that.
also, the need to commit crime to obtain drugs is eliminated if you want to stop and are on the subs...
and third, if you have nothing useful to add to my thread, except critising me, please feel free to stop posting
Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 21
Originally Posted by scaredtostp
wow, you are contrary,using any mind or mood altering drug will not stop wd, period....
also, the need to commit crime to obtain drugs is eliminated if you want to stop and are on the subs...
and third, if you have nothing useful to add to my thread, except critising me, please feel free to stop posting
also, the need to commit crime to obtain drugs is eliminated if you want to stop and are on the subs...
and third, if you have nothing useful to add to my thread, except critising me, please feel free to stop posting
We are all here on this forum to help each other get through what is an admittedly tough thing, getting off a variety of drugs, mostly prescription opiates. Your moniker, scaredtostp, to me means that you ARE thinking somewhat clearly, in that you recognize that there's a problem/issue. That's a huge step in the right direction.
You know the Who song "Can You See the Real Me"? I think that's what we're all searching for...not the person on opiates, and not the person on other mind-altering substances. Before tapering off oxy, I tapered off Lexapro, a SSRI anti-depressant. Why? I needed to know who the "real me" really was! Did I really NEED this medication, or did I just need to step back from a stressful situation, and take a deep breath instead? I'm telling you the answer is YES! Was withdrawal from Lexapro a PITA? You bet...the vivid dreams and "brain zaps" sucked! But, they went away with some time, and I feel 10000% better now than I did when I was taking it.
Is w/d from opiates tough? Yup. Is there an easy way out? Nope. No matter how you do it, you're gonna have a tough few days, then it gets remarkably better fast. From everything I've read about suboxone, tapering off it is much worse than coming off oxy. Why put yourself through that?
Believe me, when it comes to such things as supplements, biofeedback, and other "new wave" ideas, I was a real hard@ss about it, didn't believe 'em for a second. Well, I'm here to tell ya that I was dead wrong. You have to remember how powerful the brain really is, and how you can train it to ignore certain things. For example, how about those people who can walk on hot coals? Or, people who couldn't carry a 50 pound bag of sand who manage to lift a car off of someone caught underneath? The mind can do some amazing things, and we have the power to make it work POSITIVE for us, if we focus on it!
Positive reinforcement is EVERYTHING, and it starts with you. Before you embark upon your journey to cleanliness, tell yourself that you can do it, and keep telling yourself this mantra 24/7/365.
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: CA Native
Posts: 2,509
Well, MP, let me make it official for you. Not EVERYTHING you've read says suboxone is much worse to taper off of than just quitting oxys, because I personally totally disagree with that statement, and I speak from personal experience.
How acutely bad withdrawals from an opioid are depends mostly on how much you've recently been taking when you quit (and every drug has a different 'relative strength', so amounts in milligrams mean nothing when comparing different substances), along with how long you've been taking them.
Thus, tapering has quite a bit of potential value in terms of easing one's suffering. Subs, compared to oxys, are quite easy to taper down with. As long as you taper first, down to at least 2mg/day (less is even better), which is NOT that hard to do, the intensity of sub withdrawal is not that bad, probably akin to going cold-turkey off of about 20 mg/day of oxy. Yes, you do make a trade-off, in that certain parts of w/d's tend to linger around a bit longer coming off of subs, but the horrible intensity of quitting oxy's is just not there (provided you taper down like you're supposed to).
I certainly don't recommend subs in every situation to everyone who's addicted to opioids, but there are definitely some situations where it strikes me as a very wise move for certain individuals to get themselves into sub treatment. And I also would never recommend someone try to go cold-turkey off of too much more than 2mg/day of subs, because there is NO DOUBT that trying to c/t off of larger amounts of subs can be an absolute nightmare (which is, I'm betting, the source of much of 'what you've read' about subs...)
Bottom-line, to say that 'tapering down and off of subs is much worse than quitting oxys' ... in the absolute sense that you communicated it ... I'm sorry, but that's a load of hokum. It totally depends on the situation, primarily, it depends on the dosages involved with the two alternatives.
Other than that, though, I agree with everything you said
How acutely bad withdrawals from an opioid are depends mostly on how much you've recently been taking when you quit (and every drug has a different 'relative strength', so amounts in milligrams mean nothing when comparing different substances), along with how long you've been taking them.
Thus, tapering has quite a bit of potential value in terms of easing one's suffering. Subs, compared to oxys, are quite easy to taper down with. As long as you taper first, down to at least 2mg/day (less is even better), which is NOT that hard to do, the intensity of sub withdrawal is not that bad, probably akin to going cold-turkey off of about 20 mg/day of oxy. Yes, you do make a trade-off, in that certain parts of w/d's tend to linger around a bit longer coming off of subs, but the horrible intensity of quitting oxy's is just not there (provided you taper down like you're supposed to).
I certainly don't recommend subs in every situation to everyone who's addicted to opioids, but there are definitely some situations where it strikes me as a very wise move for certain individuals to get themselves into sub treatment. And I also would never recommend someone try to go cold-turkey off of too much more than 2mg/day of subs, because there is NO DOUBT that trying to c/t off of larger amounts of subs can be an absolute nightmare (which is, I'm betting, the source of much of 'what you've read' about subs...)
Bottom-line, to say that 'tapering down and off of subs is much worse than quitting oxys' ... in the absolute sense that you communicated it ... I'm sorry, but that's a load of hokum. It totally depends on the situation, primarily, it depends on the dosages involved with the two alternatives.
Other than that, though, I agree with everything you said
Now with fewer opiates!
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Posts: 1,405
Originally Posted by mp91163
From everything I've read about suboxone, tapering off it is much worse than coming off oxy. Why put yourself through that?
Meanwhile, BV is correct. If you had read here, you would find positive experiences with suboxone, mine included.
I am a program harda$$ as well, and understand your zeal.
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SEATTLE, WA
Posts: 36
Hi Scared,
I am no doctor. I don't have very much advice. I just know that I got so angry with the drug and my use of it because I saw it taking the things from me that I loved the most. You know at first it seemed like a magic bullet. It seemed to help me do everything that I needed to get done. But it was quietly and severely destroying me from the inside out. You have got to get out of this right now before you have no choice but to watch it carry everything in your life away. In some cases it has even taken a number of lives.
I tapered off of Oxycontin and Percacet. I am now 30 days clean from 60 - 80 mgs of oxycontin and 27 days clean of up to 25 mgs of percacet per day. I was down to about 2.5 mg of percacet when I went c/t. It was a heck of a lot easier than when I tried to c/t without the taper. That was how I did it because I am a single parent of small children, I just started a new job and I couldn't afford to be sick for even a moment. I drank ensure for nourishment, benedryl to sleep at night, aleve and bayer asprin for pain, ate bananas and pho soup, and immodium (not a lot of this because it is a form of opiate) for the stomache discomfort and runs. I was careful when I took over the counter medications because they have their own side effects especially when taken on an empty stomache and when too many are taken and when taken along with other medication. I also tried methacarbemol (a muscle relaxer) but I was afraid of it so I only took it about 4 times when the back pain was unbearable then stopped.
If you haven't done so already, you should read my thread. It might help a little
Again, I am no doctor, I just know what has been working for me....
I am religious so I prayed a lot and listened to gospel music ("My Name Is Victory", "Encourage Yourself", or anything by Tye Tribitt, or what ever music you like that is motivational and uplifting and encouraging is good)
YOU ARE GONNA MAKE IT!!!! WE ARE ALL PULLING FOR YOU!!!!!
GOD BLESS!!!!!!
I am no doctor. I don't have very much advice. I just know that I got so angry with the drug and my use of it because I saw it taking the things from me that I loved the most. You know at first it seemed like a magic bullet. It seemed to help me do everything that I needed to get done. But it was quietly and severely destroying me from the inside out. You have got to get out of this right now before you have no choice but to watch it carry everything in your life away. In some cases it has even taken a number of lives.
I tapered off of Oxycontin and Percacet. I am now 30 days clean from 60 - 80 mgs of oxycontin and 27 days clean of up to 25 mgs of percacet per day. I was down to about 2.5 mg of percacet when I went c/t. It was a heck of a lot easier than when I tried to c/t without the taper. That was how I did it because I am a single parent of small children, I just started a new job and I couldn't afford to be sick for even a moment. I drank ensure for nourishment, benedryl to sleep at night, aleve and bayer asprin for pain, ate bananas and pho soup, and immodium (not a lot of this because it is a form of opiate) for the stomache discomfort and runs. I was careful when I took over the counter medications because they have their own side effects especially when taken on an empty stomache and when too many are taken and when taken along with other medication. I also tried methacarbemol (a muscle relaxer) but I was afraid of it so I only took it about 4 times when the back pain was unbearable then stopped.
If you haven't done so already, you should read my thread. It might help a little
Again, I am no doctor, I just know what has been working for me....
I am religious so I prayed a lot and listened to gospel music ("My Name Is Victory", "Encourage Yourself", or anything by Tye Tribitt, or what ever music you like that is motivational and uplifting and encouraging is good)
YOU ARE GONNA MAKE IT!!!! WE ARE ALL PULLING FOR YOU!!!!!
GOD BLESS!!!!!!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: SEATTLE, WA
Posts: 36
I should mention that I counted the percacet by how much opiate was in it. So the ones I took had 5 mgs of opiate in each pill and the rest tylenol. Broken in half during taper I counted it as 2.5 mgs (opiate ingredient).....
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