CaliCutie

i said something and now everyone hates me

endlesspatience

This draws me back to the definition I now use for addiction: a repeated behaviour with pathological consequences for myself or others. In the case of alcohol, I accept that was the case and doing Step One of the AA programme enabled me to see that. My denial regarding nicotine was harder to break, partly because of the reasons other people outline above. But that addiction without doubt caused me and others a significant amount of harm.

I'm weighing up my approach to caffeine in the light of my definition of addiction. There were times when I was drinking when I would mix up my alcohol with energy drinks so I could get more buzzed and stay up late. That behaviour had bad consequences.

Three or four coffees per day can be fairly expensive but I don't have the impression it's causing me much physical harm or damaging the lives of others around me. Part of me feels I waste money on this, but going to lovely coffee shops and socialising there is so very much better than drinking in bars or at home that I feel at peace about it, on the whole.

Soberwolf

Welcome to SR Cutie your quoting a 7 year old thread ?

Druwyd

When I went in to detox/rehab last year, the S.O.B.'s had an attitude toward both caffeine and nicotine. Their catchphrase was 'co-occuring' addiction and refused to let anyone, whether coming off alcohol, heroin, pills, etc smoke and allowed one, count it, ONE 6 ounce cup of freaking instant coffee provided it was consumed between 7am and noon. Thowing gas on the fire of opiate withdrawal made me even crazier.

teatreeoil007

Maybe it's because caffiene and nicotine are not nearly as destructive, not as mood altering and are also legal. Most folks don't break the law or lie to get a hold of them. I agree with you though, both are addictive substances. Food can be an addiction too, but is not viewed as being nearly as destructive.

BleedingDecon

What a great topic. I think it's a good idea for newcomers not to think about this kind of stuff but for a person who has been sober for a while there's a lot to think about. I am an alcoholic which means no matter what I do I end up in the bottle. I don't particularly have a problem with cocaine but I always end up drinking if I take it. With me it always starts and ends with Alcohol.

I think if I was smoking crack people would consider me not sober. If I smoke cigarettes most people would consider me sober so somewhere in between nicotine and cocaine is a line . Where is that line? Is it the same for everybody?

That list that joined in time posted made it poignantly clear if this is not a simple question. And I like the guy who brought up singleness of purpose and AAA we deal with alcohol and only alcohol . That being said I think if I was shooting junk we're doing cocaine I couldn't rightly go pick up the chip.

I think some of this falls into the line like the old congressional definition of obscenity: I can't tell you what it is but I know it when I see it.

I think the answer is different for each person and I've got guys I know you don't think people smoke cigarettes are really sober. I also know some old timers that are taking prescribed opiates for unbearable pain, and they are some of the most sober, spiritual people I have ever met.

For me the answers of the first step. I have to ask myself am I powerless over this thing and is it making my life unmanageable. They both have to be yes before I would pick up a white chip (is the white chip Universal? I know we have different colors for different stuff around here )

And sometime around five years sober I started to feel like my nicotine habit was starting to interfere with my living of my life and I quit smoking and it was every bit as hard as quitting drinking. The adage that the road gets narrower is so true and I really experience that. I struggle with behaviors now that I would not have batted an eye about the previous year.

Anyway this is my first post good to meet all of you...
BD

SoberCAH

We're very glad you're with us, BD.

Good post and insights.

I quit tobacco (in my case, cigars and chewing tobacco) when i go sober.

But i still drink caffeine and i don't plan to quit it.

PhoenixJ

After drinking 3 cups of coffee and 2 ciggies- I do not abuse people, crash a car or steal. I do not fall over and injure myself.

NClarke2017

If your addiction was to alcohol, does it count as relapsing or sobriety if you smoke weed? Sorry if this is off-topic, maybe I can create a new thread, but the discussion at hand made me think about this...

Dee74

I can only speak for myself.

I keep it pretty simple - no drinking no recreational drugs.
My additions were about escape - but I love my life now.

I don't need that anymore.

D

BAC015

I agree Dee74 - I keep it pretty simple as well. My addictions were about escapism as well, no matter what it was ( ex. sex. pills, booze, marijuana, unhealthy food binges, cigarettes ).

NOWisNOW

...well i don't recall a single instance where coffee or Mt Dew caused any of the chaos my other DOCs tend to

azalea333

I would argue that nicotine and caffeine cause nowhere near the same amount of destruction to someone's life as other substances can/do and that they're also not going to cause a relapse like others do. It would seem ridiculous to put much focus on those two things since they're probably the very least of anyone walking into the room's problems.

It would also make the rooms a lot more inaccessible for a lot of people, and just getting people there in the first place would be unbelievably difficult.

If we were to ban nicotine and caffeine in the rooms, we'd have to start banning food, CAKES lmao, and other things like that since they too are mind altering and for some people, massively addictive or problematic.

I think I understand the point you're trying to make - where do we draw 'the line'? Personally, I think it's different for everyone. Some people can't even use weed without relapsing or bingeing on it, other people can. I absolutely know people who are sober from booze and clean from all of the drugs that were destroying their lives and living happily but still smoke weed and have been for years without a relapse... but lots of people can't. So, I understand why NA draws that line.

I will also say that no one is impaired by nicotine or caffeine to the degree that they are even when using something as soft as marijuana. I can't smoke weed and go on about my day and function (some ppl can, not me) while I have yet to meet anyone who is so impaired by the buzz they get from a coffee or a smoke that they can't function.

nez

There are a myriad of things (not just substances), that can make a person's life unmanageable. It is up to the individual to decide when unmanageability comes into play.

Yes I am an alcoholic, but I have discovered in recovery that control issues (such as not having control over the universe) were also causing unmanageability in my life.

After discovering that, any subsequent action was up to me.

soberandseeking

Dunno, but at this point it's all I've got

jt22

I just had to post here... let's be honest, it's simply because they're legal and there's a lot of money in them. Caffeine has had me as crazy as I can get at times, never was much of a tobacco user, but it seems smoking cigs could be a trigger. Everyone is different, you need to understand yourself truly without lying to know what you do and what you can't. Some can kick their DOC, but safely use marijuana, alcohol, etc... others can't touch anything. It's definitely a tricky thing.

I just can't understand why someone would be okay with tobacco or caffeine, while condemning kratom, marijuana, or others.. there's too many variables. I'm not saying you can't use caffeine or tobacco, but it doesn't make sense to say you can use them, but nothing else. No sense at all... a drug is a drug, know what you can and can't do.

RealPono

FACT All three of these are mind altering SUBSTANCES.
FACT All three of these are ADDICTIVE
FACT All three of these are UNHEALTHY
FACT Sugar historically was a cornerstone in the SLAVE TRADE
FACT Tobacco kills 430,000 people a year
FACT Coffee was originally ILLEGAL when it was brought to England from Africa because it IS MIND ALTERING, ADDICTIVE, AND UNHEALTHY.
Why do they have The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms in the USA if tobacco is not a KILLER?
No smoker or coffee addict at NA wants to hear it because they are all still ADDICTS, what's more they are all self righteous and judgemental.
FACT The only reason these toxic, addictive, mind altering substances are still "allowed" and "accepted" is they are LEGAL and because the Governments profit extensively. If you think coffee, refined sugar, and cigarettes are safe, it's probably because you are in denial, or have never watched someone die of CANCER, or both. These three are the REAL gateway drugs. If you can't live without them you are an addict, not in full recovery, and NOT SOBER. Go learn the history of slavery, sugar, alcohol and cultural genocide, and come back to argue for the tools of the Oppressors.

Dee74

Hi and welcome to SR RealPono
D

RealPono

Thank you. I just got shut down in an NA Meeting, and I was feeling these feelings, forgive my harsh delivery. I appreciate this forum and this thread. As a newcomer to NA, I am weighing the condemnation of my DOC with the kindness and comraderie of other "addicts" who say they are clean 20 plus years, but leave meetings to smoke cigarettes outside and don't see that as an addiction or even a problem.

MindfulMan

I'm OK with caffeine, that is my remaining vice other than sex out of wedlock.

Still I'm planning my taper schedule. I'm kinda with you that I want to be completely chemical free.

I also believe in normie use, I think I'm a coffee normie. But still I want to cut everything. Just because.

I am on keto, so not only do I eat very little sugar but very little carbs of any kind.

I lead a dull but fulfilling life.