Impurrfect

(((Scareddad)))

I'm so sorry...I can tell how bad this is hurting you. Even though he's young, he still has to learn there are consequences for his actions. He's just starting to realize that, which is why he's now scared and begging to stay home. He's finding out that he can't do whatever he wants to and it will be okay with you.

Maybe a little time to find out that he's not really as grown up as he thinks he is will do him some good. Just because you said he can't come home today, doesn't mean it's etched in stone and is forever. I think a little time apart would do you both some good.

Yes, he's young, but he's doing some dangerous things that have ADULT consequences...the faster he figures out those consequences suck, the better off he will be.

Sending you huge hugs and prayers!

Amy

TTOSBT

I am so sorry for your pain. Please do not give up on him. He needs you more than you will ever know.
I wish I could give you some amazing advice but I have not been in your place. I just wonder if there are some rules you can set, that he has to live by, to allow him to come back. For instance, grounding, curfew, loss of phone?, I don't know but I just don't know that being out there at 17 is the greatest idea.
Do the two of you go to counseling together?

bval

Lots of good advice from people on this thread who've dealt with this kinda thing, I defer to them as far as 'providing guidance' goes.

So, I just wanna say ... doncha just love the 'war on drugs' ... what makes this whole situation possible in the first place?

kari08

Scared-- please don't blame yourself for this. It is too easy for us as parents to say.. man this is all my fault.. I didnt raise them right.. I didn't teach them this.. I didn't love them enough.. I didn't I didn't.. but you have.. just from the little that we know about you.. YOU have loved him.. you have tried to raise him right.. you have been a good dad.. HE chose this direction.. you didn't choose it for him.. and you have been about as understanding and compromising as any parent I know would have been, probably actually more so. My daughter is younger than your son.. she is 13, but as strong willed and sometime defiant as they come.. and it is just too easy to say.. I really screwed her up.. but you know.. they do have their own functioning brains.. they are able to think and see things for themselves and they are capable of taking the upbringing we give them.. and taking the bits and pieces from media.. peer pressure.. etc.. and forming their own path. Even if it is a bad one.. please don't think this is your fault.. I know it doesn't take away the pain.. and the hope that you can just give up something of yourself to fix it. All you can do is love and pray that he figures this out and chooses the better path for the rest of his life. And somehow do this without allowing him to take advantage of you and your wife. Because that relationship needs you too. Your son is your son.. but your wife is your partner and she will be needing you too throu this. I know this is not miracle advise, but it is from the heart, prayers are with you.
Kari

scareddad

Thanks again to everyone, your advice and prayers have been a great help. I had to leave work today, just couldn't function. Saw my son had been listening to Almost Famous - which suprised me a little - not his usual rap stuff.. we used to go on long road trips to Vancouver, and we'd listen to the cd and try and recall where in the movie the song was playing.. it gave me a little hope for some reason. I sat down and watched the movie again.. very sweet, though some mixed drug messages that I didn't really pay attention to the first hundred times I watched it. I'm very scared for where he'll go after I made him leave.. though I know where he's been doing things the way I've been doing them the last couple years.. still, it's hard.

Shaw

Oh yeah it's SO hard for a dealer when his phone is ringing off the hook because it's only MONEY calling him. LOL! But at the same time users can't get mad at anyone but their self because they were the ones who decided to try it knowing that there's a possibility of getting hooked. Supply & demand. I ate xanax and sold pot & adderall to benefit towards my xanax fund. Never messed with the crack/coke game. Those dealers were too low key and weird for me to be around or want to try and get a connect with...

Impurrfect

(((Scareddad)))

I know it's hard, but I still think you're doing the right thing. It's totally against what a parent normally does...protect their child. When the child is involved with drugs, they have to LEARN why it's just not a good idea. The best way to learn? Deal with the consquences.


Hugs and prayers!

Amy

ex D-Boy

What I said was not to imply that drug dealers had a "hard life". I simply used an example that shows murderers and drug dealers are two VERY different things and that they should not be clumped into the same category.

ZombieWife

Welcome Scared Dad.

I'm sorry about the position you are in. I have a child and I cannot imagine this--the person who you helped bring into the world, that you held as a baby, laughed with, saw take their first steps, say their first words, swore to God you would protect at the detriment of your own life . . . that this person suddenly turns from family.

Everyone worries about the future. I'm 37 and just finished my BA (moving toward my MA.) It's never too late to "figure out what you want to do with your life." Never. He's not expected to have all the answers. He can't compare himself to everyone else. Sounds like he's under some pressure. I guess I would try to ask him what he loves to do, what he enjoys more than anything (not what he thinks will make "the best money.") Get him onto a more pure path, if that makes sense. Children often do what they think others want of them, or what their parents expect, not what they truly and wholly love to do (even if it doesn't seem like it will make them a lot of money.) In short, it sounds like he needs to grow up a lot.

If he's not doing drugs, tell him to put his money where his mouth is--a drug test. You can get them at Walgreens. He's a minor, in your care, your child. The addicts I know count on you saying, "naww, I'd never ask for a drug test. How humiliating!" Pee and prove it. Or, grab a hair sample (It's more expensive, but if you have the money and want to know for sure . . .)

If he starts whining about the trust issue, then explain that he has given you no reason to trust. Trust is earned. He's broken that trust. You're his parent. You shouldn't give a flying fart what kind of fit he throws if you nab a hair and test it.

(hug)

LogCabin

I am so impressed with the responses.

I agree with Amy. I think you are doing exactly the right thing. If you backed down and let him move right back in...he would think he won too easily, and from what you have written about how he feels...he can quickly slip back into that mode of manipulation.

Once you are absolutely certain that he is NO longer dealing. or having ANY kind of involvement with drugs, then you can reconsider him returning. One day is not long enough to know the truth of what he intends to do with his immediate future. Keep up the communication....you are doing great. And stop blaming the past. I think he has been given a lot for a 17 year old.

I am so glad you continue to tell him you love him. He is a very smart young man. But no matter how smart one is...only way to learn is by go through the experience. I also think the young man, Shaw, has some very helpful advice, and his words make me feel so hopeful for you and your son.


********************************
I think Chi's point was that people serve more TIME in jail for dealing than murder. And Murder by another, or by killing oneself...is still death in the end. (Chi correct me if I am wrong, but that is how I read it.)

canuhearme

Me too!
I agree with Amy 100%. 17 is very young but old enough to learn a much needed lesson in life.

Aysha

I got what your saying. And your right for the most part.
So lets just call it murder suicide and leave it at that.
You still rock Scotty!!

Scareddad. I could never begin to understand what you are going through.
I know it has to be really hard. But like Amy said. This isnt etched in stone. MAybe a little lesson that may save his life. To let him know you arent playin his games with him. But dont ever forget to let him know you care too. Your a great dad as far as I can see. He will relize it someday.
Hang in there.

scareddad

I truly wish I could meet each and every one of you to give you a hug or shake your hand. You are collective lifesavers for me and my wife. God I am sure has a special place for those who reach out to help a stranger in a time of need.

My son came and got his stuff last night, made some brash comment about, "sorry I'm a disappointment, you and Marcy can have another baby who will turn out the way you want now" and left. I went to counselling, cried some more, but this morning, I'm at work, and today is another day. The advice of my counsellor is to wait a bit, and then, try and re-establish a connection - maybe dinner or lunch once a week, urge my son to go to counselling on his own, and just take it a day at a time. We'll see. Words truly cannot express how much all of you have meant to me these last few days.

Impurrfect

I'm glad you're feeling better and are getting counseling for yourself.

Your son is going to say things that hurt you. Not only is it the way addicts do, but as I've seen from my 15-year-old niece, it's also the way teens handle things. It's like a defense mechanism....strike out at the one you love the most (because they're going to keep loving you), but it also keeps us from facing reality....that we have done something to cause this.

Remember....just because he says something, doesn't mean it is a fact.

Hugs and prayers!

Amy

justanothrdrunk

Do what you gotta do, dad!

You can't take care of anyone else until you take care of you first.

I'm a dad too, but mine is not even 3 yet (he'll be 3 in Sept.). I'm hoping I'll have the same courage you're showing when/if the SHTF.

With all parents, there comes a time when we have to let go of the kids. 17 is still pretty dang young. But I've read time and again that we all form a basic sense of what's right and what's wrong when we're much younger than that. We all make the choices we do when we're raising the youngins because we believe (at the time) that it's ultimately in their best interests.

It seems like you're at the point where you now have to sort of sit back and watch that in action. And you're seeing your boy make some really bad decisions. But I don't think it has so much to do with anything you did or didn't teach him. We all do the best we can. And we're not perfect. I know I've already made mistakes with my little guy.

And you're seeing all these bad decisions, how can a parent not blame themselves? "I shoulda done this. I shoulda done that." You can't go back in time. And, honestly, if you could, would it make a difference? You can only do so much for so long.

17 is young. I don't think anyone will disagree with that. But it's obvious he's trying to take on some very adult situations. And even though you could be the best dad in the world, he's still going to think that his way is better. Didn't we all think that way when we were 17?

So now, like I said, you get to find out how much of what you taught really sank in. And you get to see him make all the mistakes that you might have made yourself or have seen other kids in their late teens make. And now you know better, but there's nothing you can do about it.

All you can do is let whatever is going to happen happen and to be there when he's ready to ask for help. And by "being there," I mean that you're in a position (healthy enough yourself) to be able to help. Sounds to me like you're doing just that.

bval

Wow, what great, caring advice comes from our little crew here sometimes

Makes me proud.

Anyways, I just want to add something, it is purely my own opinion but I think this whole situation becomes a tad different if this kid is actually a drug addict doing what he's doing to support some habit, vs. just outright choosing to be a crack dealer for the sake of money. I personally think the latter is worse from a moral standpoint, and would completely support Dad's action of booting the boy out for a time, especially given his behaviour and disrespect ... although I have to wonder whether that is actually legal to do?

Anyways, if he's actually doing what he's doing cause he's addicted to something and needs the money to support his habit and he's just not telling you that part ... which I have to say strikes me as a serious possibility, then I really feel a wholly different approach and course of action is in order.

I'm not sure *what* exactly to recommend, but I would recommend doing what you can to find out the truth of the situation, because as I say, I think these two situations are inherently different. Both are very dangerous, but dealing alone is pretty easy to stop and may just require some 'discipline' being imposed on your part. Using, though, depending on the drug, the frequency and the quantity involved, can be a whole different matter.

My heart goes out to you Dad, the pain you are sharing is revelatory to me. I hope it will also be so to others who may be putting their own loved ones through something similar without realizing the impact their actions actually have on those around them.

LogCabin

See...right back to manipulation since he did not get his free ride back.

Now he is scared, hurting, and angry. What is important is to tell him That you love him, and that will never stop. And you are thankful to have him as your son. However....he is making poor choices with his life right now that under no circumstance can you help or support.

I can't think of that saying. "Love the person, not the behavior". Something like that.

In the famous words of Robert Plant (Led Zeppelin)...
"Yes there are two paths you can go by
But in the the long run
There's still time to change the road you are on".

You can not support him when he is making dangerous and unhealthy choices in his life. Simple. But yes...keep the communication happening. He is looking to you for guidence.

tiburon88

A very large percentage of drug dealers either get caught or end up dead. At least he has set some goals for himself. That being the 100,000 dollar mark and he will "retire". Unfortunatley, this is not a video game but real life.
He is old enough to be charged as an adult & go to an adult prison.

tib

Aysha

Most drug dealers I know start out thinking that. Make X amount and get out. Unfortunately they get killed or locked up or never get outn for one reason or another.
I dont find that a goal in the least. Sorry.
Nothing good ever came easy...A person can save the same amount of money with hard legal work. May take longer. But I feel it would be appreciated more and have more of a feeling of accomlishment if done that way.
Easy come easy go.

Live

Dad,

I very much admire you. And I am sure your counselor's advise is great. I see you as being a role model here that will come back to commend you. You are teaching that home and family must be respected or they can be lost. You and your wife are putting your marriage first, as you should.
You can detach with a heart full of love, knowing that in time your love was always true and that he will in time know it also.
The best advice I can give you in communicating with him is to say what you mean and mean what you say.
Hats off to you.
I learned to hold boundaries with my daughter that has shown who I am, grown up now she could see my position clearly and we have a good relationship.
My stepson is a crack addict. He mother enables him to no end in sight. He is prison now for the 2d time. Such a shame. I like him even tho' he thinks otherwise because I set boundaries and he didn't like that at all.