margarok

This seemed to warrant a bump in response to a couple new posts today.

oxyuser

I'm 4.5 months into my oxycontin/vicodin withdrawal. I felt like death the first 2 months. Month 3 I started feeling better and now I'm just about done with it. It takes a full 6 months to be completely better and WITHOUT ANY replacement therapy! Suboxone is a class 3 opiate! Stronger that Methadone! Both are just legal opiates! If you want to truly be CLEAN you need to do it the hard way...TOTAL abstinence! Of course I have to go to meetings all my life (better than being on drugs...legal or not, all my life!) This W/D is one of the hardest things anyone can or will ever do...but it's DOABLE! I have 4 kids and NO family to support me and I've still done it. Now...even if I broke every bone in my body no one could shove a pill in my mouth! I'd rather feel THAT pain than EVER go through this again!
Please be tough and have hope! The only way through this is straight through the middle of it...I'm sorry but it's the only way to do it.

oxyuser

It raches FAR beyond OUR borders.

Dupree

I'm 41 and been clean for 60 days from methadone after a 14 year opiate addiction (been an addict all my life) I am miserable and just wanted some feedback on what I can do to feel better. I am still anxoius, achy and have rambling thoughts constantly. any suggestions?
very grateful

tsmba

Opiate withdrawal can be extended and particularly nasty.....that is why recovery rates are abysmal. Check out the literature about PAWS and you'll get some explanation. Symptoms can last up to two years, can come in cycles, etc.

karma35

at last i can add posts yey not from a phone i'm also bumping it up - positive stuff - ex heroin here - keep going!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Karma

kjatff8082

Hello everyone! I was googling for symptoms of withdrawals of opiates and came across this site. Reading this stuff really helps me understand what my husband is going through.
Here is a little history of his problem. He is a RN and started on Hydrocodone. He noticed that it gave him energy and thought that people liked him better when he was on it. It escaladed from there and soon the hydrocodone wasn't enough. Working in a hospital he had access to much more and started off with just patches to begin with. Then injecting into muscle and on to IV. He got busted at work and was fired. He had to start a program to keep his license. He was supposedly clean for a year with one slip up.
In July he had a major accident and was in the hospital for a while on IV meds. The sent him home on Oxycodone and his mother and I would dish them out to him like a little kid. We were worried that being on them again would cause him to relapse, but he swore with his random drug tests and stuff that he wouldn't be able to. I did catch him going through his mom's purse once to get pills. He had also lied to me about his mom picking up the prescriptions. In Oct I found a prescription pad in his pocket from my Dr's office. He said that he was really stressed out about finding out that his dad had terminal cancer and tried but they wouldn't let him. We also just had a baby, so that could have been added stress.
The other day he came home and told me he may be in some trouble from the time he tried to write that prescription. The next day the cops came into our house and raided it. I couldn't believe they would raid our house over one attempt. Then come to find out he was printing prescriptions off of our computer and had filled over 1600 pills in the past month. They thought he had a major drug dealing opperation.
They couldn't find anything other that what he gave them. He then came clean to me about everything he was doing. I guess he relapsed hard after being hospitalized and was taking 60+ pills a day. He even would take all my pills and replace them with tylenol. He would replace other peoples pills too.
He has to get clean now, he is facing some serious charges and we are really hoping we can get them reduced to misdemeanor. He hasn't worked in a year and we now realize nursing is definitely not going to be an option.
So anyways, the reason I am on here posting... He is having serious withdrawal symptoms. Stomach cramping, cold chills, hot flashes, shaky, skin crawling, restless leg syndrome x 1000 all over his body. There are also a few things that I am worried about. I didn't know if it was permanant or not. He is seriously confused and can't even remember talking to me. He is having hearing problems too. Everything sounds muffled and his ears are ringing bad. I didn't know if anyone had had either of these symptoms.
I have stood by his side through all of this and will help him through this, but I don't think I can stay with him if he relapses again. He has a newborn baby and family to think about and if this doesn't open his eyes I am afraid nothing will.
So any helpful information would be greatly appreciated. I have been bottling all of this in and haven't had anyone to talk about it to since his family wants to keep it hush hush. I feel like my whole world is collapsing around me and I have no where to turn. I am afraid of losing everything, even my sanity.

bval

Man, that is a brutal story, and I'm sorry nobody jumped on to help out ... if you're still around ... how is things working out for him now?

IMHO, someone who is in that deep probably really needs to be checked in somewhere to get the needed help, seriously.

This ... is what 'detox' and 'rehab' places exist for. At the very least, he should go see a doctor who specializes in detox/addiction, see what s/he thinks. I was in a similar boat at one point, and I ended up on a subutex program. It changed my life really positively, really quickly.

BTW, those symptoms are totally normal, and NOT permanent ... but they will hang out for a while ... it takes at least 5 days to feel any better, coming off of 60 pills a day. 7-10 days is not unusual even. And about a month to really get back to normal. That's assuming we're not talking about methadone he's coming off of, which about doubles those time frames at least.

Anyways, I wish you the best ... boy, what a huge mess ...

JustRJ

I posted here a while back. I finally had enough...after about 8 years of Norco use I checked into a rehab facility. The experience was horrific and I won't bother with the details. I was put on Suboxone and left after 5 days. I felt pretty good...until the suboxone wore off. That weekend I was having cravings again and found out my wife threw my pills away and had my doctor discontinue my Rx. After about the third day I pulled my pistol out of the closet, and was going to kill both of us. It was the hand of God that had me put it away. I went through about four more days of cravings. The cravings are now gone, but I can't sleep. My stomach is a mess. I am 14 days out of the facility. I eat, take vitamins, but can't get my rest so I am useless. The Ativan, Valium, and Restoril don't work any more. I feel miserable. I am glad to be rid of the cravings, but I need some rest or I'm going to lose my mind! I've tried herbs, OTC meds, and the others. Nothing works. I ordered products online. DON'T waste your money on Withdrawal Ease or Crave Control. They don't work! The Thomas Recipe did not work either. Moral to the story, there is no one way that works for everyone. Even the rehab center had a cookie-cutter program of meds for EVERY user in there. At least I've gotten rid of the pills, now I have to endure the time it's going to take to feel better. And I am not a patient person. Best wishes to you all!

Missybuns

JustRJ,
Man...ouch.... good info for ya not to go back and have to do another detox all over again.

Hang in there, it gets better.

Are you doing anything for your recovery other than abstaining from your drug of choice?

Let us know if you would like any help.

Peace,
Missy

Missybuns

and to add...
I went back and read some of your earlier posts (justJR) and hope that you have begun to accept some responsibility for what you choose to put into your body.
You may not be responsible for your addiction...but you are most definately responsible for your recovery.

Do you have a plan for your ongoing recovery?

Missy

JustRJ

I have plenty of plans but still feel crappy. I am only dealing with the sleep issue, nothing else. As far as accepting responsibility, you either live in pain or you take something for it. Since I stopped my meds, my pain has returned. My back is miserable, but I will live with that before I put another pill in my mouth or up my nose. I have read an awful lot of posts on many sites and I see this relapse thing. Personally, I don't get it. What I've read is that former users think about how great they felt and all that. I don't have any cravings. I haven't moved, sit at the same desk, in the same place I sat when I took my meds and have absolutely no desire to return to using again-ever! What freedom it is to not have to wake up in the middle of the night with cravings, or have to snort 3 Norcos just to feel "normal." I need to remind readers, I was not a recreational user. I am in chronic pain-still. But a choice had to be made. When I was up to 16 I actually couldn't believe it! I am now 22 days post-rehab, and have no cravings at all...not at night, not in the morning. All I can say is, "Hallelujah!" I don't have "fond" memories of the drug because there weren't any.
As soon as I get my strength up a little more, I will increase my exercise, get my weight back on, and go back to living. I've got my motorcycle to fix, my woodworking projects to dust off, and a bunch of other projects that have been left hanging because of this experience. I wish I could take it all back, starting with the first surgery. But I can't. As crappy as I feel right now with little-to-no sleep, flu symptoms, and something called POTS, I would not go back to another pain med again, at least not for what I'm dealing with now.
Those are my plans and where I am at now. Not for anything, but my wife is my support system, and she is happy where we are now. I don't need counseling either for depression, since I've been down that road, and the counselors often times made it worse. I'm thinking of getting my CDC license. One thing I learned in that facility is, if you haven't been where I am, you don't know what I'm going through, doctor or not. I'll check in from time to time and drop follow-ups.
You all have a good day!!!
Something I feel I need to add. In so many recovery programs, they suggest/use Clonodine for opiate withdrawal. I have yet to see any warnings using this approach.
Clonodine is a blood pressure med, used off-label for the symptoms. SUPPOSEDLY, it somehow binds to the same receptors. Let me say this- BS! IT DOES NOT. It put me in the ER! I had 3-2mg patches on, the max dose, approved by my doctor, and STILL had cravings, plus a BP of less than 90/60. I passed out twice, both times hitting my head. The second time, my daughter happened to catch me on the way down, but not soon enough.
Secondly: you cannot-I repeat, CANNOT just stop Clonodine-you MUST taper off or wind up in the ER with severe hypertension (high BP). It takes about 30 days to wean off of this med. It drops your BP in the dirt, and doesn't do crap for cravings. NO ONE SHOULD USE IT OUTPATIENT, like I was. If you do choose to use this drug, do it INPATIENT, so your vital signs can be monitored, or you will die! Please heed!

JustRJ

Man, some of these recovery stories are brutal. My heart goes out to you! I will have to say that God must have performed a miracle for me, and I didn't even realize it. I'm not gonna start preaching so no one get freaked out. But I did just 5 days in the rehab facility, after nearly 10 years of using, and the last 4, very heavy. I did a rough estimate, and over the course of my experience, must have taken over 10,000 pills! Yes, that's correct. I couldn't stop on my own, but with some meds, I was done in 5 days. Plus the 3 additional days of hell. But 22 days out of that place and I'm a new man! Even feeling like crap, I feel better than I did on pain meds. I also weaned myself of the benzos. I've taken those for a long time for anxiety issues. But I am friggin' done with pharmaceuticals! Motrin and Tylenol, and vitamins/supplements. That's it! Well, I guess not really. I have to take BP meds because I have high BP, but other than that, no thank you! I am home alone every day because the wife works. I can now care for my dogs again, rather than put them in a kennel. I still don't think about or desire them. I didn't forget the experience, or the feelings, but the desire is not there.
Those struggling, you're in my prayers, for what it's worth. I KNOW it's hell...I've been there!

Relearn

Well I happened across this site out of curiosity. Since March of 2008 I have been addicted to Percocet 10's and Norco 10's. I had tried a couple times unsuccessfully to get off. Maybe last 2 days, then relapse. I was going through about 12-14 a day in the last 1 and half. I had prescriptions but always ran out about a week too soon, but some how managed to get by. Last Friday I decided enough was enough. My wife was going out of town for a 3 day holiday weekend. I took my last Perc at 9 pm Friday night. I spent the next 2 days in bed and in the hot tub. That's it. I could not do anything. Zero Energy. Could not eat. Barely could drink. Bad stomach problems. Day 3 got a little better. Was able to move around and had managed to get 5 hours sleep. Day 4 was still a little shaky and still semi drained of energy. Today is Day 5 and I feel about 90% to be honest. I still think in my head though about going to the doctor and getting some. Its all psychological for me at this point. I had bad restless legs for the first 3 nights, but last night I went right to bed. I even ate breakfast and lunch today with no problems. I pray I am strong enough to continue. I keep looking at the pictures of my kids and thinking I have to do it for them. No matter what.

JustRJ

It is 0200 where I am. I am 25 days post-detox and feel pretty bad. No cravings but the insomnia is driving me nuts! I'm getting an average of 3 hours a night in a 24 hour period. Very weak. Pain has come roaring back. I told my wife I felt like I did after my first surgery! Nights are hell. Having panic attacks, anxiety attacks, can't get comfortable, always cold. Losing strength. Tried to go out for a walk yesterday. Could only make it to the end of the block. Going to see a doctor on Wed., but I've lost all confidence in the medical profession. I can't get my BP to regulate even though I'm on meds. So far, I can't make sense out of any of this. Plenty of sites state that, "...opiate withdrawal is seldom fatal." But then you read about lack of sleep contributing to heart disease, diabetes, and stroke. You can also find how opiate withdrawal can screw with the heart. So...I have no desire to be back on pain pills, but feel I may die as a result of the years of use. What a fool I've been.

OutofIdeas75

JustRJ,

I have read a lot of materials about the liver that basically state that the damage caused to the liver by opiate addiction can heal. The liver can heal the damage you have caused! I hope this is the case for you, as I am in the same boat.

Congrats on day 25! Should be getting better.

jazz66

I now were your comming from on the not sleeping justjr i thought i was going mad i gave myself 12 monthes to see if i could get in to a desent sleeping patern after quiting opiats methadone...my sleeping dident get back to normal till i went back to the docters .
and treeted for my anxiaty and deprshion

FT

Glad to see you on line OOI75. JustRJ, hi, I haven't responded to any of your posts I don't think. Have you cruised the "oxycodone withdrawal help..." and "I'm going coldturkey..." threads? There are lots of stories there and it sounds like you might have read them. If not, it's a good place to read the gamut.

I'm glad you aren't psychologically hooked, although you do mention someplace about "cravings." They can be rough when you are feeling sick and anxious, if you do feel those things.

A couple of comments. Who the HELL ever told you that CLONIDINE binds to opiate receptors? As you know, that's a bunch of crap. Only opiates, synthetic opiates, opiate agonists, and opiate antagonists can bind to those sites. If it doesn't share the biochemical shape of an opiate, fuggetaboutit. Supposedly lomotil does (the OTC diarrhea drug), but it didn't help me much if at all.

Last thing, which may or may not help you. Yeah, pain. Well, I can speak not just from personal experience but from numerous medical cases I've reviewed professionally -- opiates are not very effective for long term pain relief. The "saturation point" at which pain relief occurs is about ten floors below where addiction and toxicity live. Larger and larger doses only work for a short time, then after saturation point (therapeutic range for pain) is reach, higher doses may make some people feel high (for awhile, then that effect decreases, too), but doesn't increase pain relief commensurate to the increase in dose. Eventually, when toxic levels are reached, the pain relief is left in the dust and you are then just dealing with not being in withdrawal. One of the other pieces to this puzzle is that adaptation to opiates occurs by the body's multiplication of opiate receptor sites, which never decrease in number after they are created. If you've heard me say this before, sorry to be redundant. Anyway, once you have a vastly increased population of receptor sites from adaptation, little pain relief occurs unless you fill them all.

If this has not been your experience, I would be surprised.

I know pain from severe osteoarthritis, which was bone on bone in both knees before I had them both replaced in 2009. Hence my own opiate addiction, from which I've been in recovery since December. In my own experience, I did not find a reduction in pain control as my dose increased, and eventually I was only in less pain for a brief period after each dose, and in between times I was in as much pain as not taking any at all.

I now live with my pain off opiates. The price they extol is too high for me, and I don't want to live my life as an opiate addict. Which is what you are if you require maintenance opiates to function.

I won't say more here, because I suspect you know all the non-opiate pain methods. If not, shout out and I'll share some of what I do. I don't regret my knee surgeries, even though they caused my addiction. I may be in pain, but I can walk now, albeit in pain, whereas I would not be doing so had I not had them.

glitter

JustRJ - congratulations on your clean time!

I'm here to tell you that as time marches on it does get better!

The more you do without the drugs the more you get used to doing without the drugs (including sleep). For me it was like relearning to live life....the simplest things were such a chore!

Now that the extra antihypertensive effect of the opiates and benzos are gone, maybe your doctor will adjust your bp meds?

Hang in there! Take naps when you can. Good luck!

JustRJ

Today is Monday. I am 28 days post-detox. According to information I've read online, chronic use requires about 20-28 days to get the opiates out of the body. I have accomplished that. The weekend, though, was horrific-
For the last 10 days I've had horrible sleep patterns, not diminished through any meds. I was having horrible chest pain-like someone had my heart in their hand and squeezing. I have a medical background, so don't rush to the ER for any little thing. I am not a hypochondriac either. The chest pains freaked me out, so on Saturday, I had my wife take me to the ER. They did a complete W/U to R/O heart failure. Thank God, all tests came back negative! They did xray, ultrasound, and a lot of lab work. All came back showing no cardiac problems. Their final opinion was that the pain was either stress-related or epigastric (stomach, esophogus). I don't have acid reflux. I would know burning from crushing. The whole experience, was terrible. I had to spend the night, no food, no water, and supposed to have a stress-test on Sunday morning. Long story short, I got no meds, no food, no sleep. I watched the clock nearly all night, slept for about 3 hours, and awakened by the nurse to get poked with a needle. I had had enough. I told them that at 0800, if I didn't get seen I was leaving. I guess they thought I was bluffing...but as the clock struck 8, as the nurse was talking to me, I told her I was leaving. She got this "deer in headlights" look. I guess the night crew didn't tell her my plans, which I told them. Anyway. I got unplugged from the monitor as was on my way out the door. I met up with the floor doctor, a very compassionate lady, who sat me down and gave me some options. She said everything came back normal, my EKG was "pristine," and that they don't do stress tests on Sunday-a point everyone failed to mention! I was NOT staying an additional day on no food or rest. The doc told me I could come in to do the stress test at my convenience. Finally-someone sensible! She gave me a clean bill and I left. Couldn't get out fast enough. I did find out that the urine and other tests came back negative for opiates! It did show benzos, but I told them I had just taken some the night before to get some sleep. Other than that, all was good.
Still feeling weak and tired. My wife walked me all around the grocery store yesterday and I did 25 minutes on the treadmill today. I have to force myself, if that's what it takes, to exercise, to reduce the anxiety and get my cardio back. I feel pretty much like I did after my first surgery. I am not a patient person, so having to start from ground zero is tough. But I would rather that than go back on pain meds-ever.
As to the clonidine issue. If you read enough "stuff" online, you find all kinds of BS. I know the clonidine doesn't bind to the opiate receptors. Nothing binds to them except those of similar composition. Clonidine is BP drug they use to help with the symptoms. It does nothing for cravings.
Thank you all for your support. I may come off as a smart ass or know-it-all, but I really am not. I just happen to know a few things, with a lot of life experience. I am not easily swayed. I am also very assertive, which is what got me out of the hospital. They thought I was bluffing. They thought wrong.
I have anger in my tone-I don't deny it. I have been burned by surgeons, pain management docs, rehab docs, and Workman's Comp. I can never get back all the years I've lost to these surgeries and med addiction. I'm not as young as used to be, so I don't bounce back as quick.
My memory is pretty rough. My wife would tell me things I had said or done. I don't have any recollection. It's pretty sad, because I guess I said and did some pretty ugly things, which I am ashamed of. This has been a horrible experience, but as a wise older woman once told me, "...it adds to your resume!" All the bad stuff I've gone through, I've got a book for a resume. I wish I had a reset button...
Blessings to all-
RJ