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Counting your days clean

Old 10-13-2007, 05:32 PM
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I agree with 2ala2, Glassprisoner and Timebuster. IMO, drug replacement isn't being clean.

If you do not agree with this.... then does being on any/all PRESCRIBED medications mean that you're NOT clean??
Of course being on any or all prescription meds doesn't mean one isn't clean. I take blood pressure meds everyday and I'm clean, but my blood pressure meds aren't prescribed as a substitution for another drug that I became addicted to. I wouldn't consider my clean time in danger if my doctor prescribed an antibiotic. All prescribed meds aren't given to people to help them avoid the discomfort of withdrawal, now are they? The way you ask your question leads me to think that you're justifying your methadone usage...and that's the whole point for many people who view methadone or any drug replacement therapy as not being clean. For many, it boils down to choice instead of necessity. I'm sure that there are those that may require methadone, but since I'm not a doctor...I can't determine who does or doesn't. What I do know is we addicts are great ones for manipulating the truth and experts of self-deception (including manufacturing additional pain as an excuse to use).

Exjunky wrote: I think it really depends on the person. If I have a glass of wine with dinner tonight, I would still regard myself as "clean", but that's only because I am not a recovering alcoholic......

But methadone users don't get high on their methadone, at least not after the first few days, and I think that's what counts the most, the sobriety....
Well, Exjunky, I'm sure you would refer to yourself as "clean" after a glass of wine. You refer to yourself as clean now, although you've admitted to smoking weed on a regular basis. I don't know about you...but I can't speak for ALL methadone users, but I will share that I've witnessed numerous methadone users still getting high MONTHS after they've started it!! They weren't sober, clean or in recovery. They were using...and all but one returned to full-blown active addiction.

Narcotics Anonymous has a bulletin on methadone and drug replacement programs:

http://www.na.org/bulletins/bull29.htm

I'll close by saying that NA teaches that reservations robs us of the benefits of recovery. It is my belief that the person who doesn't know their "clean date" probably has a reservation that they can successfully use again or are substituting one drug for another.
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Old 10-13-2007, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by littlethings View Post
I think methadone does count as being clean if you are on a dosage that is right for you......You are then using methadone to get high instead of using it as a temporary "crutch" to get yourself clean....
Catch the contradiction??:wtf2

Is it clean? or a way to get clean?
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Old 10-13-2007, 05:47 PM
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For some reason, I don't like to brag about my clean date, but I know it down to the day. Sometimes I use the calculator just for the amazment of it.

I see both sides of the methadone issue. If taking as prescribed and not getting high puts you on training wheels towards a normal life, not searching for a fix, not dwelling on being buzzed, then I can agree that it's beneficial. Still learning to live sober with the heck and joy that brings is the real goal IMHO.

In any event getting on an even keel and paying attention to family, creativity and the natural joy life was meant to bring is worth any tool it takes.
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Old 10-13-2007, 07:23 PM
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I find that many people like to brag about their clean date. Who cares if someone has 20 years clean? It doesn't help me any. I get more from people who are struggling with the same issues as me at the moment. I know some people who have absolutely NOTHING going on in their lives except
meetings and "counting days."
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Old 10-13-2007, 07:23 PM
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count me in the minority of not counting..

being addiction free was my personal goal, been there for quite a while..

clean and clean time etc, everyone has different methods and diferent goals..

its an individual thing, imo I respect everyones programs for themselves, dont mean it applies to me or will work for me..
happy to support anyone making positive changes in their lives.
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Old 10-13-2007, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by tiburon88 View Post
I find that many people like to brag about their clean date. Who cares if someone has 20 years clean? It doesn't help me any. I get more from people who are struggling with the same issues as me at the moment. I know some people who have absolutely NOTHING going on in their lives except
meetings and "counting days."
I wouldn't care much if they were swinging their clean time around like a sword, or trying to impress others on their pseudo-superiority. And, mind you, there are people like that...so I know how unattractive that can be. Yet, I care very much to know that there are people who can stay clean for 20 years (and more) because it helps me to understand that it can be done. For the newcomer who struggles with staying clean for a day and finds it hard to believe that recovery is possible, very often, that addict with 20 years clean provides them with hope, encouragement and inspiration. There are MANY who care, and for good reason.

I guess it's true that addicts can become addicted to anything they like. So would it be too much of a stretch to know addicts who are addicted to meetings? Maybe they missed the part about getting a balance in their lives. Who knows? Two things for sure... they know their clean date and they're staying clean. That's most likely 180 degrees better than where they came from.
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Old 10-14-2007, 12:54 AM
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Thank you Garry for a great explanation.
I do not consider being on Methadone clean, no where near it.
Clean means NO drugs. Everyone knows what drugs are.
If you want to go into a debate of what drugs are drugs and what drugs aren't. I feel sorry for you.
It's simple..
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Old 10-14-2007, 01:24 AM
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Exjunky started this thread, right?

nuff said.
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Old 10-14-2007, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by GarryW View Post
Exjunky started this thread, right?

nuff said.
Now that's not very nice.

I don't consider myself clean. I just don't do dope no more. Matter of fact, I'm pretty stinky right now.
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Old 10-14-2007, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by 2ala2 View Post
Thank you Garry for a great explanation.
I do not consider being on Methadone clean, no where near it.
Clean means NO drugs. Everyone knows what drugs are.
If you want to go into a debate of what drugs are drugs and what drugs aren't. I feel sorry for you.
It's simple..
Have you ever been on methadone??
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Old 10-14-2007, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by GarryW View Post
Catch the contradiction??:wtf2

Is it clean? or a way to get clean?
First of all, have you ever been on methadone? If you have, you would know that MOSTLY everyone continues to use (illegal drugs) during their first few days or weeks of their program (at THIS POINT, they are NOT clean).... methadone helps them get clean ONCE they find thier correct dosage... therefore it was NOT a contradiction, i was stating that people use dope ... get on methadone, then get clean WHILE ON methadone.... then eventually detox from methadone (or some people choose to stay on methadone maintenance).

I understand that many feel that methadone isn't being clean. I am going to make an assumption here, the majority of people who think this, have NOT been on methadone. I have been a dope addict, gotten on methadone, gotten clean and then got off methadone and remained clean. As i said before, if you are on your correct dosage of methadone you do NOT GET HIGH.

My point is people who are on their CORRECT DOSAGE of methadone and are NOT getting high off of it ARE CLEAN. They are NOT GETTING HIGH. Is that not in a way what being clean means? not getting high? and if you say that being clean means they are free of all substances, then NO ONE IS TRUELY CLEAN (unless of course you don't drink caffeine, take tylenol, etc). So being on blood pressure medicine makes someone NOT CLEAN (because they are using a substance and not getting high off of it, but they're still on a SUBSTANCE).
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Old 10-14-2007, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by emmer View Post
For some folks being on methodone simply means - no needle in arm -
I know you said "some people" but I just wanted to state....
You do not have to have been an IV drug user to be on methadone....
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Old 10-14-2007, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Timebuster View Post
littlethings...

READ

In Times of Illness

This is NA Fellowship-approved literature.

Ivan
I have never followed NA's steps. I do not believe in a higher power or any of those other shananagins. NA is like a "sober cult".... It may work for some people, but not me. I got clean and have remained clean without any assistance from "NA".
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Old 10-14-2007, 07:08 AM
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The way I look at it is if methadone isn't interfering with with your life, work, family in a negative way and it keeps you from doing dope then the person using the methadone doesn't have a "problem".

I'm good enough and, goshdarnit, people like me.
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Old 10-14-2007, 07:54 AM
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If you're on narcotics you are not clean.
Yes I have been on Methadone, and I personally believe it to be a great failure, my op.
Methadone=not clean. If you don't think so, good luck to you.
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Old 10-14-2007, 08:06 AM
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I smoke cigarettes=I'm not clean
I drink on occasion=I'm not clean

Butt, I'm WAY HAPPY !!! YAY !!!!!
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Old 10-14-2007, 08:52 AM
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Talking

I dont smoke
1 dont drink

I drink coffee = not clean
But - Yep - me too - I am HAPPY!!

Life is a balance? Not self perpetuatuing hell? You just gotta find that balance?
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Old 10-14-2007, 08:58 AM
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ugg.

I take prescribed Xanax=I am not clean
I also drink on occasion=I am not clean
I smoke cigs=I am not clean
I am on darvocet for abdominal pain at the moment=I am not clean

I don't abuse any of these but I also don't abuse my DOC of choice anymore nor do I spend every singe waking moment in the thralls of its addiction. {Thank God!}

I guess "clean" means something different to everyone? But I will continue to use it for lack of a better term.

What does it really matter what we call "it" anyway? It doesn't.
:ghug

Jane
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Old 10-14-2007, 09:03 AM
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I think I'm happier than a "dry doper" or a "dry drunk".....to borrow NA's words.
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Old 10-14-2007, 09:13 AM
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I meant in no way for my responses to rain on anyone's parade.... congratulations to you all for not letting your addiction control your lives. I wish everyone only the best .... no matter if people think you are "clean" or "not clean"....

In response to the methadone not working for other people, I am sorry to hear that, but hope that you overcame your addiction using other treatments. Methadone, along with the great boyfriend I had at the time, got me past my heroin addiction. I now enjoy my days and don't have that 'running mind' of chasing that high 3,4,5 times a day....

Good luck to you all in your journeys....
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