Are you considered "Clean" if you're on Subs?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 5
No
Just to be honest no your not clean subs and methadone is a replacement drug its still messing with your brain and no I'm not judging at all I was on methadone but the truth is you are just replacing one drug with another but the only diffrence is you won't go to jail but good job on the taper that should help with not being sick as bad
Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by MxKing971 
This is a huge debate whenever I talk to people and especially in rehab the few times I've been there... I've had counselors tell me it is considered being clean, while others will argue that it's just another opiate. Hmmmm?
A person is clean on subs if honest with their doctor in order to get on the correct dose, and they do not misuse the medication. If they are either nodding out, hyper due to med, get euphoric feeling with med, or crave their next dose they are not on the right dosage. If they inform their doctor honestly and get to the correct dose then they are clean. The correct dose won't cause any of the symptoms above. Those are symptoms of being on an incorrect dose. Subs are meant to curb craving opiates, it is not meant to be a daily dose of high.
If you are on subs ask yourself some questions, the answers should tell you if you are in recovery or not. Do I crave my medicine before my next dose, or at any time (sometimes even on the correct dose it takes time for this to go away)? Do I feel any euphoria after taking my dose? Am I able to go through my day without craving opiates? Are my emotions more stable? Is my life coming together, or still unmanageable because of my actions. Do people tell me they see a difference in me? Can I handle appointments, my job, my family and other relationships? Have I lost the need to lie to people to protect my actions?
Medication can assist addicts to live normal lives. I have witnessed it firsthand.
If anyone tells you that you are not clean just because you are on a medication, then they are uninformed. If they are unwilling to become informed then they have a set bias. Chances are they will not listen even when shown facts that medication is able to successfully treat addiction.
Some people have done opiates for such a time that the brain needs opiates to behave normally. For others, getting completely clean of opiates is a quickly reachable task. For these, the brain begins healing quickly. Again though, for some it won't just take 6 months to a year for the brain to heal itself. For these people it can take many years for the brain to even begin healing. This means the brain can't correctly cause happiness, or cause correct emotional responses, and more.
Medication assistance for these people is a great option. With these addicts that are truly ready for recovery, medication assistance works. On the correct dose, only just enough opiates are given to the brain for it to not have *addict* cravings. The addict can actually begin recovery.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 4
Originally Posted by Craig1111
Recently I devoted from 16 mil to 0 after 10 years I understand your situation if you need advice just let me know I just stopped over night it wasent easy but the most amazing things happened as I was withdrawing I had a spiritual awakening and my life has changed forever!!
Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: VA
Posts: 16
Are u clean if on suboxone.....
Personally, I would say yes, but it is something I would keep to myself. I was on suboxone for about a year and wrestled with staying on it because my joint pain was better on it. My doctor would always say and emphatic YES, you are clean....they viewed it as if you were taking blood pressure or cholesterol medicine for health. Their greatest argument for those judging you as NOT clean, was to say that these were the same people likely drinking coffee or chain smoking at every meeting (those are mood altering substance as well!!). All I know is my QUALITY of life on suboxone was 1000x better than using opiates....my wife always said, I would rather have you taking suboxone than to go back to the insane days of using opiates.,
Member
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by needleinthehey
Yes I am late to the party, and I'm in early recovery, but the issue of people on maintenance meds (Esp in NA) is something I keep running into and what I see really bothers me.
I'm 43 days clean from heroin today, and NO WAY could I have done it without NA. The way I detoxed was with a small amount of methadone I had saved from being in MMT. Very expired. I honestly don't know how much actual potency it had kept, but I did a pretty fast detox in about 5 weeks.
So while I have been the NA definition of "clean" I'm still struggling physically, and people notice sometimes. Methadone stays in your system a loooong time and I do not expect to be fully free of the rattle for 6-9 months. I harbor no illusions about this, and some days are better than others.
This is the first thing that royally pisses me off. I mean, you don't know me - do not make assumptions about what I am or am not doing and then judge me!!! At least get to know me! Watch me keep coming back to meetings. Listen to me when I share. Give me a chance before you condemn me because I have worked damn HARD to get where I am, and regardless of whether your intentions come from a good place or not, it feels craptastic to say the least, when this happens. I don't feel like it's anyone's business but mine- yet if I am to be taken seriously in the program, I feel pushed to "explain myself." F**+ those people. If anything pushes me away from the program, it will be this issue. Which scares me, because nothing else has ever worked.
Which brings me to my second major point: I believe that there are a significant number of people on maintenance (or coming off it) currently in the rooms, and I have witnessed firsthand, people being called out in front of others or being made to feel "less than" for it.
NA lip service tells newcomers that every one works the program in their own way, the only thing required for membership is a desire to stop using, and to keep coming back. But when the 'rubber meets the road' in actual practice, people on maintenance discover this is not really true. Despite the fact that some of these people are 100% abstinent from their DOC, and everything else but maintenance. And if they are in a detox, they NEED reinforcement and support.
Would they really rather these people not be in the meeting? Does all their hard work not count? I mean, I watched a person share how they were having horrible mental/physical issues in their recovery and were considering going on maintenance. This poor soul got BLASTED in front of the group by the next "sharer" in a sick, disgusting backhanded way.
So I struggle with this daily. I know I'll end up defending people and being "outspoken" - not toeing the Party Line, whatever... but I think NA needs to re evaluate. Or at least drag this issue into the light. It's a BIG problem. People WILL die as a result of this issue. They won't feel welcome in the rooms, and some will invariably leave. We all know where this leads, so very often.
Personally I'd rather have it out in the open and acknowledged as a "different" but still valid path. It's obvious who is working the program and who is not. Those who are not will usually be out of the rooms soon anyway. Those who are, deserve equal support as the rest of us. Thoughts?
I'm 43 days clean from heroin today, and NO WAY could I have done it without NA. The way I detoxed was with a small amount of methadone I had saved from being in MMT. Very expired. I honestly don't know how much actual potency it had kept, but I did a pretty fast detox in about 5 weeks.
So while I have been the NA definition of "clean" I'm still struggling physically, and people notice sometimes. Methadone stays in your system a loooong time and I do not expect to be fully free of the rattle for 6-9 months. I harbor no illusions about this, and some days are better than others.
This is the first thing that royally pisses me off. I mean, you don't know me - do not make assumptions about what I am or am not doing and then judge me!!! At least get to know me! Watch me keep coming back to meetings. Listen to me when I share. Give me a chance before you condemn me because I have worked damn HARD to get where I am, and regardless of whether your intentions come from a good place or not, it feels craptastic to say the least, when this happens. I don't feel like it's anyone's business but mine- yet if I am to be taken seriously in the program, I feel pushed to "explain myself." F**+ those people. If anything pushes me away from the program, it will be this issue. Which scares me, because nothing else has ever worked.
Which brings me to my second major point: I believe that there are a significant number of people on maintenance (or coming off it) currently in the rooms, and I have witnessed firsthand, people being called out in front of others or being made to feel "less than" for it.
NA lip service tells newcomers that every one works the program in their own way, the only thing required for membership is a desire to stop using, and to keep coming back. But when the 'rubber meets the road' in actual practice, people on maintenance discover this is not really true. Despite the fact that some of these people are 100% abstinent from their DOC, and everything else but maintenance. And if they are in a detox, they NEED reinforcement and support.
Would they really rather these people not be in the meeting? Does all their hard work not count? I mean, I watched a person share how they were having horrible mental/physical issues in their recovery and were considering going on maintenance. This poor soul got BLASTED in front of the group by the next "sharer" in a sick, disgusting backhanded way.
So I struggle with this daily. I know I'll end up defending people and being "outspoken" - not toeing the Party Line, whatever... but I think NA needs to re evaluate. Or at least drag this issue into the light. It's a BIG problem. People WILL die as a result of this issue. They won't feel welcome in the rooms, and some will invariably leave. We all know where this leads, so very often.
Personally I'd rather have it out in the open and acknowledged as a "different" but still valid path. It's obvious who is working the program and who is not. Those who are not will usually be out of the rooms soon anyway. Those who are, deserve equal support as the rest of us. Thoughts?
Blue Belt
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Soberville, USA
Posts: 4,174
Ime...folks need what they need to get well. On the boozy side of the house i feel some folks can get overly preachy about their success w AA or whatever and the whole time they are hopped up on depression/phyc meds.
I am understanding of dual diagnosis, but please be nice to me because my only supp is a b12 and a multi.
I am understanding of dual diagnosis, but please be nice to me because my only supp is a b12 and a multi.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: California
Posts: 2,722
I am sponsoring a gal that when I met her she'd been on methadone for several months. Every few weeks, the dose was less and less. We got started on the steps right away. I've always thought of her as sober. She was so happy and proud the day she left the methadone clinic for the very last time!
She inspires me and I love being her sponsor. November 2017 she celebrated one year sobriety. She's now the kitchen manager and head chef for a huge rehabilitation center for men.
For her it was a tool to become 100% clean and sober. I'm so proud of her.
She inspires me and I love being her sponsor. November 2017 she celebrated one year sobriety. She's now the kitchen manager and head chef for a huge rehabilitation center for men.
For her it was a tool to become 100% clean and sober. I'm so proud of her.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,426
I take an antidepressant but I've never felt hopped up D122y - it's just not that kind of drug.
It doesn't produce euphoria - it redresses a chemical imbalance in me, and helps me interact with the other 6 million people on the planet
_____________
welcome Henryski
I hope the hormone treatments help
D
It doesn't produce euphoria - it redresses a chemical imbalance in me, and helps me interact with the other 6 million people on the planet
_____________
welcome Henryski
I hope the hormone treatments help
D
Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: manchester
Posts: 523
Originally Posted by Henryski3
I have been methadone free for 4 and a half years now but i am on a subutex prescription and have been for 3 years. I had great difficulty in my recovery when clean with the prolonged physical side=effects of methadone use. Constantly tired and completely drained of energy, feeling weak especially in the morning, struggling to focus on the most basic things such as watching a program. Having terrible memory problems as well. Finding it very hard to motivate myself because of this. This is why i consciously went back to a subutex prescription as you have to at least function every day. Had all the blood tests which were conflicting and have been told to see a private doctor for hormone treatment which i am now just getting round to. The brain fog is now permanent with me and in my opinion you never physically heal from the long years of methadone use. Being clean is great yeah but NOT at the expense of ruining your health as you still have to carry on every day at a greatly reduced functioning state. paid work is out of the question for me now. And i will struggle just to do a little bit of volunteering. My pilates and cycling passion has totally gone as i'm to physically wasted to be able to manage it. Just my story and yoru recovery could be different and just be aware of the chronic long lasting side effects of methadone addiction. My bones and muscles, back still ache of tiredness and weariness every morning. Getting up and out the house twice a week is a victory for me now and this is all i can manage with hormone therapy. Just pray it doesn't happen to you.
I felt wasted as well for a while ... But made myself go for short walks then longer ones.
I'm also a fellow cyclist and gave up for a few months I still feel wasted now and again but find if I make myself do some exercise I feel fine after. and the brain fog has gone ....
Member
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 4
Originally Posted by MxKing971
This is a huge debate whenever I talk to people and especially in rehab the few times I've been there... I've had counselors tell me it is considered being clean, while others will argue that it's just another opiate. Hmmmm?
Member
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 1
Subs
I don't consider myself clean anymore. Ive been on suboxone going on 4 years. I want off but I know I'm now addicted to it. Physically. In the beginning? If I was in the right plan then yes. I would consider it clean if it's used for short periods with therapy, groups and meetings.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 4
Originally Posted by Babymamma
I don't consider myself clean anymore. Ive been on suboxone going on 4 years. I want off but I know I'm now addicted to it. Physically. In the beginning? If I was in the right plan then yes. I would consider it clean if it's used for short periods with therapy, groups and meetings.
Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: VA
Posts: 16
Clean or not?
I went to an NA meeting and asked how a guy attended meetings daily....he said "if I had Cancer and needed Chemo every day I would sure make time for that"! Made me think that Opiod addiction is a disease and Suboxone is a treatment that helps keep you in recovery (not cured).
Also, people who judge Suboxone users are likely the same who drink Coffee, or Smoke (both mood altering substances), IMO!
Also, people who judge Suboxone users are likely the same who drink Coffee, or Smoke (both mood altering substances), IMO!
Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 3
Yes!
I’ve been off opiates for 9 years and started taking suboxobe.. now on subutex I take them as prescribed and I consider myself clean. It’s an opiate blocker a lot of people don’t know that. Especially in suboxone.. that contains naloxone aka narcan so you’re clean if taking them right. They saved my life.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 1
I second that. It definitely blocks. I have been on Suboxone for 4 months now, I don't take it to get high just to be able to function and not be withdrawing. I did slip up for about 2 weeks and went on a everything binge, I am back to Suboxone and seriously owe my life to it. I am buying the very few I get off the street and I have a appointment in a week to get into a clinic. I want to consider myself clean and to a degree I am but I know I'm not to where I can be but I will be soon!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 9
Clean
I know this is an old thread but I just joined this sight and this question hit me. Ive been on Suboxone clinic treatment for 4 years completely clean the entire time. Suboxone saved my life for sure and I do consider myself 100% clean! Just my 2 cents...
Member
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pawtucket, RI
Posts: 6
First of all congratulations on 18 mnths. Thats a huge accomplishment. I agree with you on your being clean, but my concerns would be this. If I was your sponsor, and I'm not, I would watch carefully your growth in "Recovery". If you are actively participating in your recovery..IE step work, getting active, making coffee, greeting, using your phone with people in recovery...doing all or most of the same things members NOT on DRT would do...Why would you say your not clean. Seriously, to thine own self be true, but I have a sponsee that I made sure celebrated his 1 year because he has earned it. It caused quite the turmoil in my area and I personally am glad it did. He holds a full time job, makes a good paycheck and out of that and gives $100 to $200 weekly to his parents, who supported him all his life while living at home. BTW, he's in his late 40's. His rent is always current if not paid ahead of time, living on his own, makes coffee at our home group and has NOT missed a day since he started. He has earned the respect and trust of people in and out of this program. There are so many more things I can say about him and whether NA thinks he is clean or not, he definitely deserved a medallion for his time in recovery. If you do half of that stuff, I believe you do to.
Just this mans humble opinion. Good luck in recovery.
Rick
Just this mans humble opinion. Good luck in recovery.
Rick
Originally Posted by Zephyr88
Actually going through this right now. One 8mg last me literally around 3/4 weeks. I cut it in 7/8 strips and take a 1/4 of one of those each day. A tiny piece. To me I've been clean for 18 months as of today. I know I've never abused it and I'm actually weening currently to every other day. But I told my sponsor and he's old timer and I know his view is that it doesn't count. So trying to not let it bother me. To me no drugs or alcohol in 18 months is a big deal. And a tiny little piece of sub doesn't mean I'm not clean.
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