JenT1968

Do I think it's a disease? no
Do I think it is a sickness? no
Do I think it is a genetic predisposition? not sure, I hope not because I have children with an alcoholic.
does it matter if it's a disease? not to me, because I'm not an alcoholic or addict.
does it matter whether I think it's a disease or not? doesn't change anything fundamental in anyone else if I do or don't. The only relevance I can see is in relation to the beleifs I have about how I should act towards and think about someone who has a disease, in rebelling against the alcoholism as a disease model I have uncovered a set of deep beleifs about what I "should" do if someone is ill: I beleive they can't help it, they have no control or responsibility, they should be looked after no matter what they do, I should sacrifice my life to look after them, my needs and wants are secondary to their pain and suffering. I am less important than their disease.....

..... oooh, now THAT is interesting, where did that come from? the rest nof it seems irrelevant.

Still Waters

No, I don't think it is really. Just the opposite actually. I was constantly bombarded with "well, I have a disease you know!" and "It's a disease! I didn't ASK to be this way, I can't control the fact that I have a disease!" and that kept me stuck. Would I leave a man who had brain cancer than made him crazy? No, probably not.

I was also told over and over how I was sicker than the alcoholic (and we get that in the F&F forum also, mostly from alcoholics) yet I don't claim to have a disease. I don't use the label of "disease" as a crutch for my poor decisions.

I think saying it is a disease hurts both the addict and those who love and live with them. IMHO of course.

janjan40

My parents were not alcaholics but my mother often told me how she drank cider all through her pregnancy,thats probably why 'I liked it'.It wasnt frowned upon to drink during pregnancy in the 50's and I do wonder what damage it has caused me mentally,I have a lot of mental health problems.

keepinon

I am not sure either. When I look at my daughterAND listen to her I do KNOW that she is sick. How much is mental health, narcissim, pain I will probably never know. May not be disease but man, it makes you ill....

sailorjohn

Alcohol is selectively addictive, like most other drugs.

If you're not an alcoholic, no amount of alcohol consumption will cause you to become one.

You can google this information, btw.

LexieCat

I suppose if you consumed enough alcohol you might develop a physical dependence (i.e., withdrawal symptoms), but unless you were drinking in the first place for the reasons most alcoholics do, I don't think you would have the mental obsession or the craving after a single drink following a period of sobriety.

Alcoholism acts like a disease in a lot of ways. I've known diabetics who absolutely refuse to control their blood sugar, even after losing limbs. The fact that they have the ability to control/treat it but refuse to, doesn't make diabetes any less a disease.

What complicates alcoholism, IMO, is that denial is a prominent feature of it. The alcoholic, because of the effects of drinking, doesn't see clearly the role that alcohol is playing in their problems. Telling them, showing them, also doesn't seem to get through. For most alcoholics, something has to happen that breaks through that denial. And even then, getting sober and staying sober can be extraordinarily painful for some people.

Once alcoholics get to a certain point, they aren't enjoying their drinking anymore. But it FEELS like it's necessary to existence.

I didn't really understand how that could be, until my own drinking crossed the invisible line. And it took me a few years after that to accept that I couldn't drink, ever, under any and all circumstances.

The other thing that makes it like a disease is its progressive nature. It isn't possible to control the drinking by sheer willpower. And even if there's a long period of sobriety, one drink leads inexorably to more, and it is as if there was never any sobriety at all. That's more than just a behavior problem.

Still Waters

That's not what I was told, and not what some articles imply:

etc.

zbear23

Hi Lexie. I believe that addiction is a dependency on some process or substance to regulate one's feelings...physical and/or emotional. Once the dependency is in place for long enough, even if one were self regulating before (unlikely) ...the ability recedes and finally disappears over time. I was unable to feel "good" without some substance or another, but even more...it was about not feeling "bad." I had my drug of choice...my favorite "feeling", but nearly anything that would reduce or eliminate my inner emotional pain was attractive to me. I could not be comfortable without outside help.

Thus....alcohol was simply one more of the substances upon which I depended to sooth my feelings. As far as I can tell, I have never had the "allergy," that maladaptive process that seems also to define alcoholism. Without that biochemical situation, I think I'd be better "labeled" an alcohol addict. Or in my case, polysubstance dependent. There's no such diagnosis as "alcoholism." One is either diagnosed alcohol dependent or alcohol abuse (heavy drinker).

I don't know whether or not I would have developed the "allergy" if I'd continued drinking for long enough. I know that I surely wasn't born with it, and hadn't yet developed it after about 20 years of drinking and drugging.

The only addiction in my family of origin is to work. My family tree is loaded with workaholics....dependent on work for their self esteem and sense of worthiness. I suspect that this is a very common addiction, and in these days of high unemployment, probably needs far more attention than it gets. Withdrawal is, no doubt, rampant.

blessings
zenbear

Still Waters

Utterly and completely untrue. Or did you mean to say "in my opinion there is no such thing as alcoholism, only alcohol dependency or alcohol abuse.."? seeing as alcoholism is listed in the Merck Manual.

zbear23

I don't know of any professional who utilizes the "merck manual." Merck being a for profit company and all and not TMK an accepted authority.

The generally accepted authority on diagnostics is the DSM (diagnostic and statistical manual). I think the current edition is the DSM IV-R. Although it is not "in my opinion," I probably ought to have said "according to." And in the USA, it is the only source used, other than for billing purposes. And further, no diagnosis is generally considered valid unless made by a licensed or accredited professional, such as an MD, psychologist or LCSW.....all utilize the DSM.

If you were designing a treatment plan in a hospital and listed a diagnosis as "alcoholism" you'd be corrected and redirected.

blessings
zbear

Still Waters

The Mayo Clinic

zbear23

Hi Still.
That's sorta what i was getting at. While it is true that there is no "test" to determine alcohol dependence or abuse, there are various "measures" used in mental health disciplines which are based on the DSM criteria. It's all become remarkably sophisticated....and perhaps too complicated<G> One pretty reliable measure is multiple dui's <G>

blessings
zb

justjo

Do I accept Alcoholism as a disease??

The word accept - means to me, that you know it is true to yourself, accepting what is to you.

I do not accept my sister died from a disease, i accept that she died from a progressive addiction that became a cronic illness.

I saw and lived this terrible life with her. To be honest I think drinking started from at 20yrs and as her life went on (with alot of pain and sadness) the drinking became worse, then cronic. I think her emotional pain and the lack of ability to overcome it (or get on with her life) killed her eventually. She became so dependent on alcohol which didnt have any time frame, sometimes all night, all day, whenever to kill the pain. I think what alcohol did to her, or caused her to do, embarrassed her so much that she drank even more so. She went to at least 15 live in rehab centres (she tried) but could never give up for more than a month or so. The withdrawals were shocking and I remember her telling me that being a female in a rehab centre was hard because there were 90% of men there and it felt horrible to face. She just didnt know who to trust. Emotions, embarassment again.

All I know is that I saw a woman in such pain and so ill, and everyone kept telling me they couldnt help her unless she wanted to be helped. This woman was crying out for help. Disease, illness, mental, physical, whatever, there should be more funds, research and government assistance looking into saving peoples lives who suffer from alcoholism.
I really dont care what 'medical' information there is giving a definition whether it is labelled or not. It is about time that this serious illness was addressed and looked into the true reasons why (that or this person) became this way in the first place. Sometimes I think, if the issue of why the drinking became to the stage it is in the first place, instead of 'lets stop the drinking first'. things could be different. I know the addiction has to stop, (just like smoking or eating addictions) but maybe if we looked at the reasoning first, it just might help and cease the drinking??

I really believe that if we had got to the core issues of my sisters addiction in the first place, she may still be alive today. Who will ever know?
JJ

Goat

Sorry to be an A dropping in on the F&F... I'll post this and go away

I guess it doesn't bother me either way, whether alcoholism is a disease or not. I find it useful for my own recovery to think of it as a disease, because that helps to remind me that I will never be able to drink normally, and so I should not try.

But that's not the point of my post.

I have often wondered if alcoholism is the _symptom_ of a disease, rather than a disease itself. And I do not mean a symptom of a mental or behavioral disease, but the symptom of a physical disease. I do not have much evidence at all to back this up, so I do not present it as anything more than a thought for dicsussion.

My evidence is this: Many alcoholics have problems with hypoglycemia. Of course they do -- alcohol plays havoc with your body's ability to regulate sugar.

But, I have talked with several alcoholics who have always had problems with their sugar. And so have I. Since long before my first drink. And it doesn't seem like a "normal" hypoglycemia, because my low blood sugar is triggered by odd things, like eating fatty foods.

Also I have noticed that only certain types of sugar will end a hypoglycemic event for me. According to my doc, pretty much anything that contains at least 15g of any kind of sugar should stop the event. But for me, it usually has to be refined sugar. Juice absolutely does not work, so fructose doesn't help. Soda does not work, so HFCS*, whatever kind of sugar that is, doesn't help. Only sucrose or dextrose seem to be effective in stopping the event.

So I wonder if part of the predisposition for alcoholism is a craving for certain types of sugars. I wonder if the alcohol satisfies whatever it is my body wants better than other things do.

That sounds like a sugar-related disease, to me.

-Goat

* edit - I realized after typing the bit about HFCS that it's "high fructose corn syrup"... duh!

Lou2

This is painful to read as an alcoholic because I can completely understand the irrationality of this addiction to any family or friends!! I feel the same way in many ways but I also know the struggle to give it up. I have drunk heavily for two years (prev only a couple weekly) but I also feel so angry at myself that I can't just drink 'normally' but I know the overwhelming thought process/ compulsion/ desire for more from the very first drink - even if I didn't follow through back then.

The anger & frustration my family feel towards me is tallied with the enormous daily conflict of self-hate and confusion. I am a very logical person so it becomes more of a frustration that I can't understand why why why?!!?

Weak- willed, unmotivated?? No. I was on the fast track to a very successful career in a job I enjoyed before I threw it away by drinking. I have a phd, travelled the world and have a brilliant group of friends and family... but still I think about drinking every day.

Disease? I seriously don't know but it is one way to try and classify it that doesn't make the alcoholic feel like such a pathetic loser over something they find by every stretch a lot harder to control than the non-alcoholic... selective addiction is correct! I also believe that disease should not be used as an excuse for not putting the effort and will power exerted in drinking into recover although the work is a lot harder and more painful without the buffer... still I think about drinking every day.

Genetic? Nature vs nuture?
I believe it may be genetic but the nature/ nurture debate discussed is also interesting. My grandmother was a secret alcoholic all her life. I never knew until late in her life and she was always very sweet, kind, intelligent and very well respected in the community. She also had a life time of pain that was never open for discussion and talking with her daughters recently the drinking only became apparent or worse after these events but was quickly tidied away as taboo . Would this woman, who has done a lot to give back to people and been a very loving family member have chosen this or kept relapsing if it was just a simple case of not putting glass to mouth?

I guess basically I'm just trying to say it should never be compartmentalized either the struggles of the alcoholic or the dependents because there is no clear compartment. Alcoholism physically was by no means worse than when I had breast cancer and chemo/radiation but with cancer there was not the same mental pressure to hate myself or wonder why I'm so weak to have cancer or what I should have done better. The outcome was also given to me in a needle by the doctor

summer09

I also find it hard to understand that alcoholism is a disease. Imo it is a mental health issue, a disease of attitudes. Is it a physical disease, well there is evidence that supports this. i have watched my OH making really insane decisions and acting in ways that are detrimental to his health. But he cannot see how insane his thoughts are or his acting is. that's what is so scary. watching an intelligent human being turn into a train wreck before your eyes and they/you cannot do anything to stop it. i also didn't realise that you could die from drinking too much. i don't think the medical profession has taken this problem seriously. Why is their little research on this subject? When is the world going to wake up and realise that this is a serious problem? I am still learning about alcoholism and it is a scary world. when i observe my OH struggling in life i do have compassion. I wouldn't wish this on anyone. i think when i am angry and confused it helps me have compassion to see it as a disease that they/I cannot control. So in that sense it has helped my recovery. bottom line if it helps me accept that i cannot control my OH then great, because then i can focus on what i can control which is me.

lifeforme

Thank you for posting this. I've enjoyed reading all the responses.This topic has been on my mind alot lately. I was talking to someone in al anon and telling them how Im at the end of my rope. Im not willing to walk this road again and I need to make an exit plan. Her response was well its a disease... would you leave him if he was a diabetic? Question kind of threw me for a loop. Trying to figure things out one day at a time and reading as much as i can. Thanks again.

lillamy

That's where I landed, too. Whatever else you want to call it or see it as, I cannot control it. Of that much, I am sure.

I've struggled a lot with the "disease" moniker.

MS is a disease. Parkinson's, Alzheimers are diseases. They are like zaps that hit you without you having chosen to do anything that led to or triggered the diseases. As far as we know medically today at least.

That was where I started. It made me angry to think that alcoholism was compared to diseases that people got without ever having made a choice that led to them getting that disease. I felt like it was an insult to people with leukemia and Huntington's to compare alcoholism to their plight. After all, you can't be an alcoholic without choosing to drink, right?

But then I thought of a close family member who has lung cancer and who was a smoker most of her life. So, does the fact that she smoked make her lung cancer less of a disease? Or if I go out on my roadbike without a helmet and fall and get a serious concussion, does that make my concussion less of an injury because, technically, I did not take enough precautions to prevent it?

I think through that reasoning, I landed on a reluctant "OK, so I guess I can accept that alcoholism is a disease, then, if I have to."

Whether there is underlying mental/emotional issues, then, becomes a secondary (or if you want primary) issue that's separate from the disease of alcoholism. Sort of like if you have a broken leg and take painkillers and get addicted to the painkillers: The addiction is a separate issue from the broken leg.

I don't know if that makes any sense to anyone but me.

norselass77

Hi
On whether or not addiction is a disease, I believe it is important to define the word disease because that is what you are wondering. So the webster definition is :

" a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms"

As a comparison, I have a leaking mitro valve, hypertension, and atherosclerosis. I have diagnosed "Heart disease". What caused this ? Is it because I "choose" to not eat a plant based diet and exercise daily? Possibly. Was I born with a predisposition, my father died from it at age 62, probably yes I was most likely born with a predisposition to it.
My son is an addict. His brain is just as complex as his heart or mine and there is a part of it, that is not functioning as it should, the malfunction threatens his life, just as my heart malfunction threatens mine. That being the case, I agree that he has a disease. I would say his disease is worse than mine. Is there a cure for his ? Nope, but there is treatment if he accepts it. The very area that would / should be telling him to accept it is the part that does not seem to be functioning correctly. Other parts function perfectly. My left ventricle functions perfectly. Will this kill him if left untreated, yes. Will my heart disease kill me if left untreated, yes. Luckily for me the area in my brain that does this sort of delegating seems to be working great, so I take meds and will have the option of a new valve or bypass as my disease progresses. Why do I have a disease and not him. The brain is our most complex organ and we are just touching on it's treatments. I also have COPD which is a lung disease. Did I cause it by growing up in a home where my parents smoked, maybe. But it is still called a disease. Some addiction is more severe, just like some cancers are more life threatening. To me that is where the misunderstanding is. If my friend had a treatable cancer and is doing fine and my brother just died of lung cancer, it is odd that they are the same disease, but they are. There is no cure for emphasema, a lung disease, but one can control it, try to keep it from getting worse providing the area of the brain that would be in charge of taking medications is functioning as it should. My son's area of his brain that controls abuse is not. Not all diseases are as advanced. But this addiction will kill you if it has become advanced. Addiction could take your life, my heart disease will be kinder to me, my family won't be as impacted, but it can kill me too. It is a different thing when it comes to the brain because it has been harder to research and treat due to the nature of it's job. You can take out the heart and put in bypasses and stints, you cannot do that to the brain yet. Your brain controls everything we do, think about it's amazing capacity and workload. What if part of that complex organ is not functioning in a way that it should, like my mitral valve. There is treatment, thanks to the 12 steps and the good people of AA and NA., we know there is no cure, and I cannot cure my lungs either, I can only treat them. Both are treatable uncurable diseases. Sorry this is long.....and I respect other's opinions, because I used to think the same way, until the word disease was defined for me. If you've read this far, thanks I don't think some would agree that there are varying degrees of this disease of addiction. I have seen addicts go in to recovery and keep their disease in remission. I have seen others not do that and die. I have seen people change their life completely when diagnosed with heart disease, I have seen others not do that and they die. They are both diseases to me. Thank you for letting me have my say and believe me, I was not open to this line of thinking until I was educated by an expert, which I am not claiming to be. I am just an opinionated Mom of an intensively beautiful, boy, with an incurable, yet treatable disease that he did not ask for. Sending Peace..............and Hope........for the Season.....and for a Cure ......

Onewithwings

I believe that addiction, at its core, is a disease-- this includes ALL addicts-- drugs, alcohol, codies, food, sex, etc.-- which is mental, emotional, physical, and spiritual. The way we act upon it depends on what we happen to enjoy-- drugs or alcohol, sex or food, even the company of others, and, due to the disease of addiction, take it to an unsafe extreme. I do not believe that the symptom of use or drinking, overindulgence, or codependency, are the core of the disease, but symptopms. That is why the 'cure' is more or less the same for everyone-- stop the self-medicating behavior by detaching from your addiction (substance, action, or person), then do some healing, and help others.

Just my 2 cents, your mileage may vary.