leanabeana

What's the difference for the purposes of the fourth step? Also, I'm having a hard time finding where I was to blame using Dishonest, Self-Seeking, Selfish, Frightened, Inconsiderate. I'm finding that almost all of my resentments are based in fear. I also feel that there are a lot of other ways that I am to blame that aren't represented with those words.

DriGuy

We are all self-seeking. Each of us is the center of our universe, because everything we experience is filtered through self. That's just the way consciousness works. Having said that, we don't perceive everything correctly because consciousness is flawed. It sounds like you are taking a look at yourself, and this is the basis of personal growth. There is a happy medium between brutal honesty, and hiding some truth from others. You job is to find that happy medium. And it's most important that you be honest with yourself, about who you are and what you want from others.

I agree that resentments are often based on fear, but there are other reasons also. Find them. The whole process of self examination is a journey, and don't overlook your strengths. We are all a combination of good and bad. Awareness of self is the key to growth.

leanabeana

Thanks DriGuy. I'm reading through other's posts in this subforum and it's helping me sort things out. I'm beginning to see how wanting others to behave differently is selfish.

fini

“ also feel that there are a lot of other ways that I am to blame that aren't represented with those words.“
yes, that was true for me also. i think most of our steps are much loooonger now, time-wise, and when the original AA did step four, it was a couple of hours or a day at most, so the process was much shorter and more tailored to that .

when you get to farther down the road, you will use the words that describe where you see your responsibility and “wrongs”.
if you are as honest and thorough as you can be at this point , that is all that is asked.

Grungehead

When I did the 4th step I found that almost all of my resentments were based in fear. But when I drilled down a bit further into why I had that fear I found that quite often those fears were driven by other things like selfishness, envy, anger, greed, self-pity, pride, etc. Pretty much all of the 7 deadly sins.

August252015

Here's a way that selfishness was put into an example for me - it took me aback big time when I first heard it but it makes huge sense:

You're a mom planning the best bday party ever for your 5 yr old. The whole works with an amazing [ ] theme, gorgeous cake, etc etc. Pinterest quality. Instagram account worthy.

You're thinking how excited he will be and how much fun he will have.

You're doing this for him...but are you really? Is there a (big?) part of you that is thinking how this party will be so much better than his friends' have been this year? How awesome you are for being such a great parent? How...

That part is the selfishness. The motive with which we do something. It not being about your child, in this example, but about you perhaps getting carried away with your own great mom-ness....

Fear is indeed the core of my issues, and sometimes I've had to flip questions around to see the other faults and ownership I had.

Pipefish

In my step four, I understood self-seeking to be about checking my motives, and honestly looking at the purity of them. While ostensibly it may look as if I was being kind or generous by lending that money, was I actually doing so to manipulate a particular outcome, that the person on the receiving end of my generosity would think well of me? I've heard it described as a 'higher order of selfishness' which made sense; it can be an act of generosity, but my motives mean it's still based on self-interest, and is seeking my interests, over and above yours. In my own step four, a lot of self-seeking behaviour was actually about encouraging others to feel sorry for me, so that they, rather than I, got to take responsibility for what happened in my life. There were shades of manipulation, and of co-dependence it was easy to identify, which went throughout my step four.

Selfishness was more about the self-absorption that blatantly puts my interests above all, everyone, and everything else. Always first, was my addiction, which saw to my comfort, my peace of mind - in shorthand, all about me! The focus of the world shrinks to my immediate concerns alone, no room for anyone else, and it was for me the self-absorption, and indifference to the needs of others, that characterises where I was being selfish.

Tommyh

selfishness is my motives
self seeking is my actions to try to run the show

this helped me see what I was wrong.My sponsor gave this to me and it worked great.It does take a bit of effort but it was worth it in the end
I went to the turnarounds(here are the questions my big book step study sponsor gave me)

where was I


selfish?
what did I want?


dishonest
what was the lie I told myself?

what would I not get or receive?

I thought...

I told myself

I pretended



self seeking

what did I do to get what I wanted?(my actions based on my selfish motives)

how did I manipulate?


frightened

what was I afraid of?

what might I lose or not get?

what was the fear?(name it by name)

Tommyh

I had to have a way to go down deeper into my mind and see the problems and these qustions did just that.Sometimes I left a few unamswered,since I wasn`t going to make someting up.I just did the best I could and it isn`t a test

leanabeana

Wow! Thanks so much everyone for all the helpful info. I rarely mark dishonest, but I need to rethink that. I tell myself a lot of lies but I always think of lying to others as the real transgression.

Pipefish - I do encourage others to feel sorry for me. Gotta be honest about that in keep it in check.

My depression can be very selfish and self-absorbed. It's clinical, but my response to it can be full of self-pity.

Boy, this stuff really makes you delve deep. I guess that's the point.

leanabeana

What category would projection fall under? I do a lot of that.

DriGuy

Honesty is the way to deal with it. Recognize you are doing it. Then try to stop.

leanabeana

Good advice DriGuy. I just texted my sponsor to get her take too. I just love the advice I get on here though. I think both sources of guidance are essential.

sugarbear1

All of my fears are centered in self......no thought of the other person when it came to fear, really. If my focus is on self, when can I consider being useful to others? This is the only thing my hp wants for me.....to be out of self, which means to have strong faith I am not alone, that my hp is still caring for me (like in the 3rd step).....and that with my new faith, all things are possible, and I am living proof as I am still sober today. Amazing.

RaisedGraying

This describes me exactly. How do you change? How do you control your selfish behavior? Literally everything I do is for me and my comfort. I do/say the simplest well-intentioned things and then my boyfriend will point out how self motivated it was and I see it clearly then. This is my cycle. I’m continually stepping on his toes. I WANT to change. I genuinely do, but I don’t know how.

I did my 4th step. I did a separate relationship inventory. I see that I’m selfish. I know I’m the problem. I just don’t know how to change.

Dee74

Welcome to SR Raised Grayling
D

Patcha

Grayling have you done steps 5 through 9? That is where we start to address our character defects. The 7th step prayer is one of the ongoing ways we address our character defects in the moment. I wrote my own, according to how I understand my own higher power. What does your sponsor say? One thing me and my sponsor did was to work out "what is the opposite action" of my character defects. How did you go with step 3? Did you write your own step 3 prayer or do you use the one in the book? I wrote my own and my sponsor advised me to really lean into it, not just by saying it everyday, but by basically using it as a mantra every time I faced a difficulty. It really worked. Maybe lean into your step 3 prayer when things are difficult for you? Step 7 specifically addresses our character defects and we use a step 7 prayer every time we struggle with our character defects.

The 4th step is only a beginning. It's not the end of the process. I would ask your sponsor to take you through steps 5-7 asap. I did it in one sitting with my sponsor, in the manner suggested in the book. Steps 9 is where the promises start coming true, including "selfishness and self seeking will slip away".

The way to change selfishness is through service and putting others first, but you really need steps 5-7 to catalyse this change.

The steps have their own momentum and working the steps "unfolds" something in us at certain points. Just keep working the steps with your sponsor as thouroughly but as quickly as you can. If you've only done step 4, you're going to stay in emotional pain and confusion until you work the other steps. Step 4 is like cake batter. It's not ready to eat until you cook it with 5-9. Steps 10, 11 and 12 are the icing on the cake.

Page 83 - the 9th step promises:

If we are painstaking about this phase of our development, we will be amazed before we are half way through (that means half way through step 9). We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness. We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it. We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace. No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others. That feeling of uselessness and self-pity will disappear. We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows. Self-seeking will slip away. Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change. Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us. We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us. We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves.

Are these extravagant promises? We think not. They are being fulfilled among us-sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. They will always materialize if we work for them.

Tommyh

if you want to change,follow the rest of the directions in the big book.And learn to live them daily.
works for me.
my sponsor tells me to allow my defects to take me to my HP
self seeking = my actions or behaviours based on my dishonesty or selfishness