The Higgs boson wouldn't be a thing anyone on earth would claim to fully understand at this point.

And yes, I totally get the logic here. God isn't God if I can fully understand it. That's simply not the nature of God.

Well... another way I see things: God is all this we see and observe and know... it is in everything. And to take a little piece away, to try to blast a subatomic particle and separate it from the structure it makes up is to "play god" and to create chaos out of natural order... good example, atomic bombs. We may not understand quantum physics entirely, and therefore in my mind it is a great approach to the god concept.

I don't know how it works. I just know that it does. :) Personally for me being outside in nature is what feels most like "God" to me.

pretty wild: I would never have thought I would be interested in quantum psychics or some of the scientific stuff I look into, but since I got sober I do and reeeeealy wish I woulda paid(?) better attention in science class in school!!

SoberJennie I have found that “trying to visualize it” is only helpful to a point. Getting a “feel” for it, so to speak, has been more useful. IMO it’s the seeking that is somehow quite essential. Here are two things that I have found quite interesting. Happy hunting!

The Primacy of Consciousness - Peter Russell - Full Version - YouTube

Carl G. Jung

Ah... synchronicity :) I recall Schrodingers Cat from philosophy classes. Very interesting!! Thanks for these links. I've been reading them, and have gone down a rabbit trail now ;) It's reminded me so much of Philosophy of Mind class and some of the things we discussed, but that was over 10 years ago!

Yes, I was familiar with Peter Russell, I think he is at the intersection of parts of psychology, philosophy, and physics.

Btw, my degrees were in psychology and philsophy, so all this is right up my alley!

I have thought often of studying physics and then I read things online and watch documentaries, but just never went on to formally study it.

I find fascinating the central “role” of light in talking about physics, religion and mysticism. Light has qualities that are unlike anything else. Any “thing” else. It acts like a particle and a wave at the same time! As Peter Russell points out, it has “absolute” qualities. It plays a central role in talking about relativity as well as quantum mechanics, and its the first thing that God created (as per Genesis 1 verse 3). I'm not a bible thumper (let alone a big book thumper) but I don't find that to be a coincidence.

just adding that I don't need a concept of a higher power to work steps 2 & 3, I only need willingness

Willingness to believe or willingness to set aside my old beliefs

and I don't give up my free will, I do know I am under the care of a power greater than I

it's simple and I don't need to complicate this.....

Yes, I do too! And a friend of mine talks about light being very significant. After finishing up that Peter Russell video, I was left thinking about light... I think he mentioned there's an action quality to it as well. Forgot how he phrased it.

Odd to consider turning oneself over to the care of a higher power without giving consideration to what that higher power might be...

“Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.” -Einstein

Quantum of Action Arthur M. Young: The Reflexive Universe

I completely agree with you sugar bear. All that's required is willingness.

As a practical matter, setting aside old beliefs (becoming truly open minded), required me to eventually to fill the vacuum. I've been amazed at what I've found. Truly amazed.

BB 3rd. Edition, Pg. 46:

"We found that as soon as we were able to lay aside prejudice and express even a
willingness to believe in a Power greater than ourselves, we commenced to get results."

Page 47:

"As soon as a man can say that he does believe, or is willing to believe, we emphatically assure him that he is on his way. It has been repeatedly proven among us that upon this simple cornerstone a wonderfully effective spiritual structure can be built."
Then, Page 55:

"We found the Great Reality deep down within us. In the last analysis it is only there that He may be found."

This is pretty much what Peter Russell in the video link above said at the end. In so many words. Human consciousness. Or the feeling of "I Am"

SoberJennie, I like this phrase from the Young link.

“the ultimate essence is not a thing”.

How true!

I'm saying the steps work even if one has no belief (and possibly an opposition to believing) that a higher power exists.

Those steps saved my life. :)

Hey, great thread. I love science, and have a masters in it, but I found I have to put it on a shelf a bit when I'm working my program. My tendency to overanalyze and intellectualize the principles didn't help my spiritual growth in the program. I kept looking for the data, the proof. Show me the double blind with placebo group experiment!!

The stories are the proof. Other women share their stories about how a relationship with a higher power changed their life. The higher power can be anything, anyway you are comfortable imagining it. Make a list of what you want in a "God" it doesn't have to be anyone else's belief.

The quest for knowledge and "proof" can become a slippery slope for me!! I just work the program, like my sponsor demonstrates. I'll leave the research and scientific exploration for when I'm at my job!! And believe me, it took me some TIME to get there!!!

I am also a scientist. And a non-theist.

HP= not me. It's that easy. That's as much as I understand. It must be enough because before taking the steps I could not stay sober and after.....well I haven't had to drink or drug in four years. I keep it simple or I would find a loophole and drink about it.

My experience.

Ahh, I see what you mean now. Yes, I'm of the opinion that the steps will work for a non-believer... I've come across enough of them who've stayed sober to realize that though they may represent a minority of AA, they are a fact :)

Glad they worked so well for you. I can tell that the more I read of the BB and 12&12 it's mostly a matter of language... semantics, pretty much can just wrap my head around the idea presented and not get hung up on the buzz words.

Ok, good to know! This helps me somewhat. And I'm glad it's work this way for you. Very encouraging.