Pathwaytofree

That's a great reminder, fini, about the point of the 5th step. I'm supposed to be there just as a witness.

That's a fantastic experience. It sounds like they let you come to your conclusions on your own time.

Sort of. I'm just trying to trust my gut, that's all. But yes, I think I am guiding her too much with how she should see things differently than how she did, versus letting her come to the conclusion on her own.

That's a helpful analogy.

I just sort of felt like, why am I wasting my time if she's not a real alcoholic. Not once has her addiction come up in our discussions. Drinking, yes. But not in an addictive sort of way. We've gotten through the majority of her 4th step and although she had other self-seeking behaviors, I haven't heard yet about drinking.

True. It's not up to me to tell her how she should have handled a situation she was resentful with. I see now that was my mistake. I thought I was helping, but I wasn't. It's for her to figure out.

That's helpful. The way I teach the 4th step, the patterns emerge on their own. But reading it, they don't always see it. So I can point it out from their own writing. I have to remember that that's the key here, vs helping them see how differently they could have perceived a situation and reacted to it.

Thanks Fini!

Pathwaytofree

I was fearful she wouldn't get it. I thought I was helping her along. I see now that that was not up to me to do. This is her own journey, and I need to step to the side.

August252015

Lots of good discussion and From you Path, and everyone.

Something just occurred to me reading through them again- in my experience and in what I have seen commonly around here, either sponsor or sponsee can end the relationship as such, perhaps just going back to a friendship, or starting one.

When I was rigorously honest about my reasons for wanting to change sponsors after step three, I did. I had to decide I had put enough of the right kind of thought, prayer, etc into the decision and quit thinking it through.

As a sponsor myself, with people at different degrees of readiness I have had to be the one to make a change in two cases, for different reasons.

Just some more thoughts from this alcoholic!

fini

Not once in her fourth step "my part" (aka 4th column, where were we at fault, turnarounds, etc) did she write down "drank" in her self-seeking part.

wow.
until i read that, it had never occurred to me.
i don't think i wrote that down once, either.
it was a given...get rid of people and drink.
i saw the "my part" as instruction to look at my behaviours, actions, grudges, character, shortcomings.
how interesting.

Pathwaytofree

Thanks, August.

^I'll focus on this.

Pathwaytofree

I found that I had to include it, to both write it, and to say it outloud. It helped me see the connection between my resentments and my drinking.

I saw that as "my part" too.
My "behaviors" and "actions" included drinking.

My defects of character included that if I wasn't so "spiritually selfish" in that I needed everyone to act or say exactly what I wanted them to, for my own ease and comfort, than I wouldn't have drank.

If I had acceptance and forgiveness, and saw people as just being who they were, and not taken things personally, I wouldn't have drank.

I needed to see this in steps 4/5 to make the connection. I needed to see how I responded and reacted.

Pathwaytofree

Update: This sponsee is confusing me. I am unsure where to go from here.

I think my gut about her was correct. She tells me what I want to hear. She parrots back to me what I say. She's good at this. I can tell she does this in her work life and personal life. I should have followed my gut when I first sensed it during steps 1, 2, and 3 when I didn't think she was a real alcoholic.

We're still working on her fifth step. Even though she sees her part in the resentments, she doesn't think there's anything wrong with how she acted or treated anyone. She sees it more as how she reacted to the person's behavior.

For example, if she was resentful at a co-worker for coming in late, her part was that she judged her and gossiped about her with other co-workers. However, she does not see this as "acting out", "selfish and self-centered", etc. She thinks her behaviors are all completely justified.

I also don't think she's an alcoholic. I have figured out her actual addiction. Although I come from the school of thought that the big book way of doing the steps can work for any addiction, I know nothing about this addiction. And to make matters worse, she is still acting out in this addiction and doesn't see anything wrong with it.

When she told me about a very recent time, she was telling it to me as if it was just her norm, and that there was nothing wrong with it. I remained non-judgemental but asked her if she brought God into the situation. I think she is completely missing something. I also compared it to someone else in her life, and she didn't respond.

My gut says to stop working with her, even though we are not through with Step 5. I wonder anyway if she'll just quit, since she was not happy about viewing her part in the resentments as character defects.

She also didn't seem happy when I started to mention how we harm other people when we're resentful. She seems completely unwilling to look at this.

I had suggested many times she say the resentment prayer about some people in her life. My sense is that either she did, but it didn't process in the least, or that she didn't do it. Nothing from her comes from the heart, ever. There seems to be a major disconnect.

This is such an odd situation to be in. But I don't know if I want to give someone like this more of my time, who isn't authentically going through the steps. I've given her so much of my time already. And she still brings up wanting to stuff together as if I was a friend.

Something is just not sitting right.

Do I continue with her Step 5, and just wait until she balks at Steps 8/9?

Do I suggest she work with someone else?

Do I say that I think she has another addiction, and perhaps another fellowship would be more appropriate?

I'm not sure how to best handle this. Each time I take it to God in prayer/meditation, I cannot figure out what the answer is.

fini

no, something is not sitting right for you, clearly.
do you think you are able to detach from judgments about how she is doing this and just share your experience and then allow her her own way through this without being prescriptive?
I get what you're saying, but the fact is she can only work from where she's at, and if that doesn't include her heart right now, or her authenticity, then that is where she is.
if you cannot be with her there without your own frustration driving you to doubt her all the time, or without your doubting her driving you to this frustration, then neither of you is served well.

if you want to "let her go", i think sooner is better than having this drag on....wouldn't want to be in either of your positions.

Pathwaytofree

Yes....I do need to work on that more. To let her have her own experience. To realize that some people just don't see what they need to see for quite a while. To remind myself it's not up to me.

I have to accept that and remind myself it's not my responsibility.

I don't think I'm "frustrated". I think it's more that it's confusing that she isn't seeing things yet.

Good point.
After talking last night, I got the feeling that something inside of her is starting to possibly see that her way of thinking isn't working anymore. I think the true test will be in Steps 8/9. For now, I am stepping away from trying to help her see what she can't see. I'm reminding her of how to depend on God....and not a sponsor. I am no longer listening to any drama, but am redirecting it back in a 4th step way.

Thanks fini!

Alyons

I completely agree. We don’t diagnose and we aren’t therapists. We can be compassionate, but we carry the message, not the alcoholic. You, my friend, have great intentions, but trying to “teach” a new perspective? Setting yourself up for a resentment for sure.

fini

welcome, Alyons
this thread is more than four years old, so not likely there will be a response from the original poster.
if you feel like chatting about something else, go for it!