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Old 01-21-2020, 09:46 AM   #161 (permalink)
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As an aside, I love this thread, because it's caused me to spin off into much reading and YouTube watching. I also, sort of, understand fractal-hell, and I believe what I've come to understand.
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Old 01-21-2020, 10:05 AM   #162 (permalink)
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He replied, “The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, ‘though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.’ 11Now this is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God. 12The seeds along the path are those who hear, but the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.…
Luke 8:11

The sower soweth the word.
Mark 4:14

The Seed is the Word and Word is every single living thing. The world was spoken/sown by God. Go look at any new born baby and tell me that's not the Word.

Evolution steals God's glory, that's why it's Luciferian. Here's Darwin showing the Satanic oath of Silence.



Once I got over the initial shock, I realized it's way better! The reason they lied was to separate us from source and take away our divinity. They're the ones who sold their souls, so pity them, and move on to accepting that each and every one of us is the WORD made flesh.
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Old 01-21-2020, 03:02 PM   #163 (permalink)
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Thank you for your detailed explanation and history, Derringer. I'm so glad you're now well. Would I be right in saying that the crux is 'belief' that a process will work, because it has worked for others?

Also, when you say the 'obsession to drink went away', would that also include the odd random, stray thoughts of a drink, or not? Sorry for the questions.
Yes that is definitely a huge part of the belief that got me started.

I got sober via a men's meeting with guys who had been where I was and their testimony was that they took the steps and it worked.

There has been thoughts of alcohol but they don't turn into incessant, nagging, won't go away, drive you crazy bombardment.

They usually pop one of two ways, mowing the lawn, smell of fresh grass or I see an advertisement for a new beer or whiskey and my mind can drift into a little jealousy that I will never know what that tastes like.

But aside from that, part of my job is delivering kegs of beer, and it may as well be a pallet of bricks.

Without the steps and God, I'd be salivating over those kegs like a hungry dog over a steak.
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Old 01-22-2020, 10:15 AM   #164 (permalink)
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Thanks Derringer, that's so helpful. I so resonate with the mown grass. I was in AA for years, worked the Steps twice, nothing clicked and I continued drinking, spiralling down the alcohol pit.

I joined SR, discovered AVRT, and stopped drinking after decades of alcohol abuse. Content for two and a half years, then tragedy struck, and my AV was screaming at me that a couple of drinks would help to numb my pain, then I could then stop.

Well I guess you know what happened next, yes, I spiralled down so fast. Almost didn't make it back, but my friend Wholesome worked behind the scenes to secure my re-entry to SR and the good folks in Secular Connections, raised me up, from suicidal thoughts, and I stopped drinking once more.

The only AV I hear now, is the AV that latches onto my AA background, saying that I'm missing something, because I have the occasional thoughts of a drink, so I'm doing something wrong. That if I returned to AA, I'd be OK, which is wrong, because I'm OK now. My AV loved the relapse, wants another one, the same AV that witnessed me drinking in AA.

This is a long way of saying, I'm so grateful for your admission that, being secure in your sobriety, with the guidance of AA, your obsession has been removed, but you have the occasional thought of a drink. That gives me strength, that my infrequent thoughts are normal, that I'm doing OK.
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Old 01-23-2020, 06:00 PM   #165 (permalink)
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Yeah you are Tatsy 👍.

If there is anyone in recovery who hasn't had some sneaky thoughts pop in from time to time, I'm yet to meet them.

Thanks for the chat 😊
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Old 01-25-2020, 11:33 AM   #166 (permalink)
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I was in AA for years, worked the Steps twice, nothing clicked and I continued drinking, spiralling down the alcohol pit.
The "alcohol pit" is a very evocative phrase Tatsy.

You may well not agree with this but I think one of the things we need to be challenged about is the view that many of us have that we're okay, that when the chips are down we'll make the right choices. Very often it is by making mistakes, by doing things which when we've done them we think "That was wrong!" that we begin to realise thst there's something wrong with us as we naturally stand, that we need some kind of redemption.

I think the Christian view would express this by saying that it's not simply God saying "You're good. That's great." but God enabling.us to discover that we are prone to mess things up and that we need someone who is able to be gracious towards us and to enable us to grow into the person that he wants us to be, realising that we can't do that in our own strength.

Part of the whole vision of the Christian faith, and I think this is reflected in the AA notion of surrendering to a Higher Power, is to say that we can't live in our own strength. We need to trust in this strong, gracious God who is there for us and who enables us to do things which left on our own we simply couldnt do.

It's like we're in a pit and can't get out of it and God or our HP if you like, to give an image, clambers into the pit and pulls us out. It's not about God giving us a ladder and saying "You've got to climb up however hard it is" It's more God climbing down to where we are and then bringing us up - bringing us up - to where he is.
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Old 01-27-2020, 07:15 AM   #167 (permalink)
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This belongs here in this thread. It brought me to tears in the nicest way

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Old 01-27-2020, 09:03 AM   #168 (permalink)
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That's a beautiful video. It was very painful for me to watch because I can't see my dog now following an acrimonious divorce.

I really do feel that the only experiences of pure unconditional love I have ever had has been from my dog and God and I have been lucky enough to have had quite a lot of love in my life.

I remember once reading and looking up and seeing my dog looking at me. Her love was so evident that I unconsciously smiled and she wagged her tail. The video made me wonder if God also 'smiles' when we look towards him and try to live a good life.
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Old 01-27-2020, 10:29 AM   #169 (permalink)
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I swear that my dog understands humor and that she knows how to be funny, and she likes being funny. She knows what I think is funny too, like she'll do something like chase her tail, and then once I start laughing, she'll stop and look at me with this big goofy grin, and then she'll start doing it again.

She's also got me trained to get up and go to the kitchen to get her a snack! She's a great dog, it will break my heart when I lose her. She's over 10 so she's in her "golden years", and she's a golden with a heart of gold. Actually, we aren't sure if she's a real golden... I thought I was going to see a liter of puppies but instead I met this Asian girl in a park who had a single puppy in a bag, so I did a little puppy deal in the park, and I've called the dog counterfeit ever since.

She was so funny when we had the boat, as soon as I gave the cue, she would jump overboard and belly flop right in the lake! Then she would swim all day until she was a water log, and then she'd sleep like a rock. Her and I have been on so many adventures together over the years. She's a good girl.
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You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me.
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Old 01-28-2020, 01:00 AM   #170 (permalink)
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It does make you wonder whether God created dogs, at least in part, to show us his quality of unconditional. Although that may sound farfetched, if you believe in a God who is the author of the natural world is it that surprising that his nature or character can be seen to some extent in the world.

Natural theology talks about the world as a beautiful book in which all creatures great and small are like so many characters leading us to contemplate the invisible things of God.

To talk about Christianity again, it's understanding of creation isn't limited to the natural world because it extends to an understanding of human nature. Although the Christian viewpoint sees human beings as well as the rest of creation being Gods creation, the idea of humans bearing the image of God is very important. This obviously means a lot of things but one of it's meanings is that this planet isn't ours but we hold it in trust for God. We are meant to be the stewards of God's creation and we have a responsibility towards our planet and the care of animals.
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Old 01-28-2020, 04:07 AM   #171 (permalink)
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We do have a responsibility to steward the earth. I feel like I've woken up to a nightmare, before this awakening, I thought like most other people, now I'm scared. I don't want to be a minority in my own homeland. As soon as these foreigners can out vote us, they will, and they way they breed compared to us, and the way they are being mass imported in, it will happen soon. How do I tell my children that we not only gave away their country, but that they, like us, will also be forced to pay for it, and be treated second class. Humans are tribal, it's natural to us. It's proven when these new comers form their own parallel societies within their host countries. We aren't meant to live all squished up next to each other this way, it's asking for trouble.

Meanwhile, the children are being scared half to death with climate change HOAX and poor little Greta Thundertug gets exploited by her Luciferian parents. We are told everything is our fault, we should abort our babies to save the planet, while from the other side of their forked tongues they tell us we are to blame for the third worlds problems and we need to let them all in so they can have children that we can pay for. The truth is that the entire worlds population could fit in the state of Texas. The earth is more than capable of supporting all of us. We are just totally disconnected from the earth and terribly brainwashed. If our rulers wanted things to be different, they would be, but they like us as scared, sick, broke serfs.

Oh and it's fine to have tranny's teaching the children because the kids are themselves are probably transexual, or at least gay, and if you have a problem with it, then you are a homophobe, even though you don't care if an adult is gay or trans, as long as they leave your kids alone. But I gotta be honest, they way things are going down, and they way they are targeting children.... I'm starting to wonder if they rainbow doesn't end in a big old P. I've heard a few gay people speak out against it, saying that it's inappropriate and confusing to the children. Children are not sexual! I don't care what that creep Kinsey or even Freud said about them. Kinsey used pedophiles for his research and then published his research as factual. And Freud said kids want to have sex with their parents and parents needed to resist. No one should listen to either of those perverts. Their ideas should be swept into the dust bin of time.

Sorry, I'm going off on tirades here. I can get heated up. I just see so many inversions and lies around me. Here's another one, I used to be for abortion, up until the third month, I even had one as a teenager (may God forgive me), but then I learned that Canada has no rules for abortion. A woman can be in labor and say she changed her mind and wants an abortion, and they have to give it to her. That is Satanic.

Oh and we also recently legalized bestiality here in Canada.

And it's the same playbook and agendas throughout the West. Every Western country is facing the same issues of open borders with socialist policies. It's nothing more than a redistribution of wealth as they get ready to collapse us from within. Like Shakespeare said, Hell is empty and all the devils are here.
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Old 01-28-2020, 04:56 AM   #172 (permalink)
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Sometimes I think you are too reticent for your own good Wholesome and you should say it more as you see it!

A few points:

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Meanwhile, the children are being scared half to death with climate change HOAX and poor little Greta Thundertug gets exploited by her Luciferian parents.
I don't see it that it's the children who are scared here. I think they see the imminent danger to our planet all too clearly, as children do, and it's the adults who are scared.

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Here's another one, I used to be for abortion, up until the third month, I even had one as a teenager (may God forgive me)...
Well, I would say that if you feel you need God's forgiveness, and I'm not saying that you do, then you have it.

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Like Shakespeare said, Hell is empty and all the devils are here.
I take it that this means Hell is empty because all the devils have left and are here on Earth. Far be it from me to disagree with Shakespeare so I'll agree with that but that does not mean that Earth has become the new Hell. In the midst of all the evil and suffering on Earth, there's too much love, making love, humour, honesty (as in your posts!) and kindness for that to be the case.
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Old 01-28-2020, 06:29 AM   #173 (permalink)
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Yeah I can be pretty black pilled sometimes.... it's just that now that my eyes have been opened I see it all around me, and I find it distressing and frankly, anti-human.

If globaal warming was real no bank would give out loans on any coastal region, world wide. Yet the coasts are booming. The bank doesn't lend out money unless they are sure of their return. Period. So they are banking on the water levels staying exactly as they are. I heard that from a guy named Dan Pena. I would post him saying it but it's got a lot of F bombs.

I think our rulers are generally devils, certainly they have sold out and taken the deal. They are the wolves in sheep's clothing we are told to watch out for in the bible.
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Once you make a decision, the universe conspires to make it happen.
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You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me.
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Old 02-01-2020, 02:43 AM   #174 (permalink)
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I think there are two ways of looking at the worlde. There are two ways of looking at your possessions, your body, your self, your time, basically everything we've been given. One is as an owner. So I own all my stuff, my body, my time. I'm the possessor of all these things, they're mine and I do what I want with them. This might involve sharing some of these things with others, or with God of I'm religious, but that's up to me because they're mine.

The other way of looking at the world, our life and our stiff is as a steward, not an owner. In that case, these things have been entrusted to us, we don't own them. We it comes to our lives we can at look at ourselves as the owner as the owner of our time for example so we'll think 'Yes, I can give you some of my time out of my generosity' or 'I can give it to God out of my generosity'.

But if we are the steward of our time and God has entrusted it to us we could start everyday by asking him what he wants us to do with it because it's not ours, it's his and he's entrusted it to us. (I'm saying 'he' and 'his' but of course could just as well say 'she' and 'hers' - God doesn't have a gender).

This does make a difference because if we think of ourselves as owners we're insensitive to the fact that this is what has been given to us. We're indifferent to it and take it for granted. But what happens if they leave or are gone, for example if we get sick, we can start resenting because we'll think 'Wait a minute, my health has been taken away." But if you're a steward you'll see your health as a gift and this may make it easier to feel gratitude for the fact that you're still breathing even though your health has declined.

This is easy to say but hard to do. It's easy to stop trusting God if you lose something. It won't be right to go into details but I've started a relationship with a woman who lost her daughter a few years ago. Her heart is truly broken. I don't know how I can help her if I ever can but all I can think of is that I hope she may be able to see her daughter as God's free gift to her, that he entrusted her to her, and that she got to love her for 16 years and her daughter loved her for 16 years. Of course if she could choose, her daughter would still be with her today but I hope thinking of her daughter as a gift will help her accept her loss and to start to feel thankful for the time they had together.

I do hope I haven't upset anyone who has had a similar experience by talking about this.
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Old 02-01-2020, 12:09 PM   #175 (permalink)
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Hi Aleric, I'm sorry you endured an acrimonious divorce. Was custody of your dog part of the divorce settlement, and you lost? I know of a couple who divorced and agreed to share custody, weeks about, as folks do with children. rather than incur the expense of a court battle.

Have you considered rehoming a little dog yourself, if your ex-wife won't allow access, and it wasn't part of the divorce agreement? Or perhaps contacting your ex and asking for contact?

A new relationship, how lovely! I understand the differing impacts of the ownership/stewardship viewpoints. But from my point of view, when considering my offspring, when they were born I felt a massively deep sense of responsibility for their welfare. I recall when they were newborn, wishing with all my heart that they'd survive me, that I'd witness them graduating university and becoming adults, before I died, that they would outlive me.

So, I don't believe I felt those repetitive, ongoing thoughts out of ownership, but out of love, to try my best to see the next generation on it's feet, before I passed.

I cannot see how your new partner could find comfort by twisting her mindset from ownership into stewardship, when her daughter pre-deceased her, as a teenager.
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Old 02-02-2020, 08:10 AM   #176 (permalink)
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Hi Tatsy,

Thanks for your comments. Much appreciated. I took legal action as far as I could about my dog but sadly no success - the court will not make a ruling on access arrangements for family pet - so I have to leave it at that.

I appreciate your comments as a mum about the owner/steward distinction I was trying to make. You made me think about it more and I think the point I was trying to make was that if she could see her daughter as a gift that God entrusted her with then God is involved in the whole situation, and that now her daughter is now with God. I wonder whether that might be a comforting thought. If she thinks of her daughter as hers alone, I just can't see how she can have any hope now that she has gone.

I really don't want to be ”twisting her mindset from ownership into stewardship." I just wonder which way of looking at it is the more hopeful, as well as the more true.
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Old 02-03-2020, 08:46 AM   #177 (permalink)
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You know there is no name for a parent who loses a child. I think that's because since the beginning, no one has been able to find the right words for the loss. It's too unspeakable.

My sister lost a child, a baby, in a home birth gone wrong. I can't even express the horror and trauma of it. Everything got turned completely upside down. It's an ultimate inversion because our children are our futures, all those hopes and dreams...

I think your thought is a beautiful one, Aleric, that we are just borrowing our lives from God. It's really nice, and hopefully comforting to your new friend.
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Old 02-04-2020, 11:31 AM   #178 (permalink)
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I hadn't realised before that there is no word for a parent who loses her child, or at least not one that that is commonly known. As you say, that shows how awful a loss like that is.

I was sorry to hear about your sister's loss. Yes, it goes against every grain in our psyche. It's not the natural order of things and we know it's not how the world was meant to be.
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Old 02-05-2020, 08:20 AM   #179 (permalink)
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It was a long time ago, my sister went on to have 2 more children who are healthy and well. I have a hard time hearing stories about other women who choose home births, my sister was told that it was safe and that they knew what they were doing. She picked the teacher of the midwives to deliver her baby, she was supposed to be the best of the best, she told my sister she'd never had a loss before. She was even conveniently on the board that investigated infant deaths here in Toronto. She is a highly regarded midwife. Yet he died of lack of oxygen for 6 minutes, even though according to the two midwives who were there, they had his heartbeat the entire time. Then when he came out lifeless, they didn't know how to work their own equipment and it wasn't until the ambulance arrived that they were able to resuscitate him, but by then it was too late, his brain was too damaged. He was otherwise a beautiful blonde 8lb baby boy.

A few years later my sister went to an event at the hospital for parents who'd lost children, and she met another woman who had the exact same story. She'd also been told this Malko(witch) midwife demon, that she'd never lost a baby, even though a year earlier my nephew had died under her attendance in very similar circumstances, another beautiful blonde boy.

Life can seem cruel and unjust at times. And what people believe matters.
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Once you make a decision, the universe conspires to make it happen.
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You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me.
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Old 02-05-2020, 10:41 AM   #180 (permalink)
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That is the ultimate tragedy. I'm sure you are a great support and I think your sister was wise and brave to meet other people who have experienced the same loss.

I think people usually don't expect or even want answers when they are hurting. No explanation is going to take the pain away. Most of all they simply want someone to be there for them. That's true for me anyway.

And I think this is what God offers. There is no answer to why there is such tragedy, but if you ask how can you still believe in God I think it is because he has promised to be there with us in times like this.

God is unable to wrap his arms around us or to cry with us. This woman I've met didn't want to be alone at all and for a few weeks her sister and mum slept with her in sleeping bags on the living room floor. God acts through us but of course if you don't believe in God acts of kindness like that are just the same.
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