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Old 02-07-2020, 01:24 AM   #181 (permalink)
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I don't know why we are tested the ways we are, or why we must live through such difficult lessons, other than to think we are tempered like steel in a fire, to make us worthy.

Let's talk about something else though....



Look at how the ancients thought our world was. The cosmic egg idea has captured my imagination. I love it.

It's just like the old riddle, what came first, the chicken, or the egg? I say egg.
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Old 02-07-2020, 01:46 AM   #182 (permalink)
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What's been done to us is that they inverted the the compass and the square. The compass is supposed to show heaven, where the spheres are, and the square is for earth, where we can measure the material world.

Just think about how pie is an infinite (but holy) number, that's because heaven is immeasurable - you can never exactly pin down a circle.

They made earth a sphere and the heavens/milky way the flat plain. It's like the Chilli Peppers song, "Space may be the final frontier, but it's made in a Hollywood basement." These people love to conceal and reveal through movies and music. Did you know that every single Nasa image of earth is an artist composite? They take many images from weather balloons and wrap them around a sphere, and call them the "Blue Marble" collection. That's why they are always different, even the sizes of the continents.

Check it out.

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Old 02-07-2020, 04:00 AM   #183 (permalink)
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Yes, good to talk about something else...

The fourth sphere in the picture has clearly been doctored. But that doesn't mean it's been doctored by NASA...

I don't know if you've ever seen any of Carl Sagan's TV programmes or read any of his books but as a boy I remember watching his brilliant TV series "Cosmos". He was a scientist who was a brilliant communicator, also a bit of an atheist but very good at raising deep questions. You may know about his writing about "the pale blue dot" but let me tell you what that is in case you haven't come across it. It's all about the space probe Voyager going out to explore the far parts of the distant solar system and Sagan persuaded NASA to turn it's cameras backwards so that instead of seeing where it was going it would look back from where it had come. And back came a picture of complete blackness but with one pixel that was pale blue, and that's the Earth. And Sagan just said look this is amazing. That is our world. It's so tiny, so infinitesimal but to us its what really matters.

I agree with that but I do think there's more to be said. One of the Psalms says something like "When I survey the heaven's, the work of your fingers, what is man (and woman!) that you are concerned about him. But you made us knowing that we matter to you."

And that's one of the things that the Christian, and I'm sure all other faiths, does. It makes conceptual space for science but also allows us to talk about questions like meaning, purpose and value. And gives us a world in which although we are very small we still matter to someone who is very big if I can put it like that! I think the point is that though we exist biologically, we live meaningfully.
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Old 02-07-2020, 07:33 AM   #184 (permalink)
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Beautiful pictures, Wholesome. Don't wish to stray into eco-politics, but when earth is viewed from afar, it's so clear that we have an encapsulated atmosphere, that is conducive to the bio-diversity of the planet's plethora of inhabitants. If I sealed my property, likewise, then introduced toxic pollutants, which couldn't dissipate; it wouldn't take long for the property inhabitants to sicken and die.

I've been saddened this winter, to witness the effect of the published highest barometric reading for that time of year in the UK in 90 years (finally discovered my barometer is accurate!). Birds started their spring morning calling, bees and wasps came out of hibernation, only to find no food in January. I sometimes think humans are a plague on this planet.

I watched a video where an orangutang was fighting a mechanical digger, destroying the habitat, it was shot. Conversely, a video where a man was in a river, tending an orangutang habitat, and when he appeared in distress, the orangutang walked to the river edge and held out its hand to pull him out.

I believe humans embody both God and the Devil, in differing amounts.
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Old 02-07-2020, 08:59 AM   #185 (permalink)
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I've had the exact same indoctrination as everyone else. I live in Toronto Canada, so an argument could be made that I've received an even heavier indoctrination, since this is ground zero for all the Liberal agendas. Plus I'm a nerd who loves documentaries. I've watched a ton of spaced shows.

I'm convinced that it was all BS and propaganda. I don't think we can go to space guys. We've never been to the moon. That's the spiritual realm, we live in the material world. Seriously, take another look at the moon landing, but this time with a more critical eye. It now seems absurd to me that I once believed that we landed on the moon, set up a photo shoot, rode a dune buggy around, phoned home, and then splicketed out of there without a hitch, on this spaceship that looks like a couple of kids made it in their garage.



Also check out this mouse running around outside the international space station without a spacesuit or anything! Wth?



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Old 02-07-2020, 09:14 AM   #186 (permalink)
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I used to think humans were a plague on the Earth too, Tatsy. But I changed my mind about that too. I think if our rulers, and the wealthy 1% at the top who make all the decisions, wanted things to be different, they would be. At the level we are at, we are at their mercy, we have no choice but to go along with whatever they decide. They own the companies that are polluting. They set up the slave debt systems we live under. Your average person isn't to blame, and given a choice, most of us would choose to love and respect our Mother Earth.

Now I believe that we are all created by God. We are the Word Made Flesh and just like the bible says, every hair on each of our heads is accounted for. The Earth is more than capable of supporting all of us, and only an Anti-Christ Lucifierian agenda would say otherwise.
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Once you make a decision, the universe conspires to make it happen.
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You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me.
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Old 02-08-2020, 05:21 AM   #187 (permalink)
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I used to think humans were a plague on the Earth too, Tatsy. But I changed my mind about that too... Now I believe that we are all created by God. We are the Word Made Flesh and just like the bible says, every hair on each of our heads is accounted for. The Earth is more than capable of supporting all of us, and only an Anti-Christ Lucifierian agenda would say otherwise.
It sounds like an important effect of your kalundi awakening is that it's changed the way you see things. You described before that it stripped away appearances and you now see things as they really are.

The way we see things determines how we understand and value them, and how we behave towards them. Once we start think as you describe that we matter to God then we'll feel that we need to do some things for him. Our perception of things changes.

These kind of experiences are transformative. We begin to see ourselves in a different way and to see the world in a different way as well. I think our particular beliefs about things like evolution or space are often not all that important. Our beliefs are like a window and we can spend a lot of time looking at the glass or the window frame, and in the same way we can spend a lot of time looking at our beliefs. But you can also look through a window - that's it's main point of course! - and I think the metaphor holds because we can also look through our beliefs and doctrines and see beyond them. Our beliefs are like a lens that brings things in the world and ourselves and God into sharp focus.

I think C.S. Lewis said this well when he said:

"I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else."
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Old 02-09-2020, 02:30 AM   #188 (permalink)
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Yeah my beliefs have changed based on new information and I don't just accept the official story the way I used to. The way I see it is that we are presented with two options, one separates us from God and tries to take away God's glory, the other tells us we are beloved and created by God, so God could know himself through our experiences of His amazing creation. The whole One becomes the many idea.

I think we are ruled by the fallen angels, and like George Carlin said, "It's a big club, and you aren't in it!" It's like the parable from the bible about the tares being planted with the wheat. We can tell them by their lies. I think we've been passing down these stories for the last 2000 years to warn each other about these bad actors in our midst, sowing their seeds of deception and division. I don't think the world is spinning out of control, I think things are playing our exactly as our rulers want them to. They like us scared, sick, broke, and too stupid to put it all together.

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Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.
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Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”

37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
The best things we can do is take good care of ourselves, reject the processed food and drugs and alcohol. Treat our bodies like the literal temples that they are. Build strong big families, love each other better. Also build strong communities, get involved. Start saying NO to all these agendas that are anti family and anti human. Turn off the TV and the news, it's all lies. Look into who owns the media, and the banks, and Hollywood, and big pharma - They are NOT on our side.
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Once you make a decision, the universe conspires to make it happen.
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You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me.
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Old 02-09-2020, 11:11 AM   #189 (permalink)
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I'm never really sure whether I believe in Satan and evil forces and so on. I feel I can't dismiss it because, for sure, the world doesn't operate as we sense it should. I think we both said this earlier when we spoke about children dying. Talking about things like that makes you say that this is just wrong.

The Christian picture of Satan, as I understand it, is of a non-human but non-divine kind of personal force which is determined to attack and destroy creation and people and God's ultimate purpose of remaking everything.

I don't know what I think of that but the older I get the more that seems a plausible explanation for some of the evils we see such as the institutionalised brutality of much of our society as well as individual acts of what does seem to be well described as evil.

As a Christian, I believe that evil has been ultimately defeated, but it seems to be doing very well at the moment! So I don't know. What do you think?
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Old 02-09-2020, 12:08 PM   #190 (permalink)
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I think it's all real. I think reality is a duality matrix, and the concept/archetype/spirit of good and evil exist. The Christ and Anti-Christ spirits are very real. Both need to exist, they are opposites of the same beam.

I don't think evil has been defeated at all. In fact, I think that the purpose of most religions is to teach about the duality of good and evil. In the individual, it's about taming the internal "beast", and turning our vices into virtues. But in the greater reality of our societies, I believe that the spirit of the Anti-Christ is not only alive and well, but in charge and running things. I think the story of Satan and a third of the angels being cast out of heaven and down to Earth is true. I think there's a power behind the powers that we see in this world, a guiding hand, and to get to the top everyone has to sell out and take the pledge.

I'm reading a book called Sefer Yetzirah, The Book of Creation. It's about kabbalah and gematria and mysticism and magic. It unlocks the code of creation and how words are encoded with numbers. It's a way to study and understand God. The knowledge is pure, it's the intent, the will, of the person who uses it that matters. There is way more to spirituality than we are led to believe, magic is real, spirits are real.
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Once you make a decision, the universe conspires to make it happen.
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You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me.
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Old 02-09-2020, 12:12 PM   #191 (permalink)
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Total side note, but I found a church I like today! It was really beautiful, full of stain glass windows and all kinds of carved wood, with a big organ. It had a nice turn out of people too. It's Anglican, which I didn't know much about, but apparently, it's a the middle road between Catholic and Protestant, so it keeps more of the rituals, without pledging to the Pope.
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Once you make a decision, the universe conspires to make it happen.
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You can resolve to live your life with integrity. Let your credo be this: Let the lie come into the world, let it even triumph. But not through me.
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Old 02-10-2020, 01:26 PM   #192 (permalink)
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I agree that evil hasn't been defeated. How could I not when you look around the world? But I do believe that it ultimately has.

Just to try to give a quick account of (my interpretation of) the Christian view on this, when you read the Gospels it feels like there's a dark strand that starts right at the beginning when you get Herod the Great killing all the babies and plotting to kill Jesus as well. There's a sense right from then that evil is clustering around Jesus and and it gathers like a storm cloud throughout the the whole story until the arrest in the garden when Jesus says (something like) "This is your hour the power of darkness". And that makes it clear what's happening, that the evil of all the world is somehow being lured onto this one place. That's the story the gospels are telling and it is an odd picture but it is saying that on the cross evil is ultimately dealt with. And the proof of that is Jesus rises again. That can only happen if evil and death have been dealt with and then the proof is that by God's spirit new things happen in the world and lives and communities are changed in a way which was unthinkable before.

I don't know how other religions deal with the problem of evil but it seems to me that if there is a supremely good God then evil must be ultimately defeated because it cannot be part of the ultimate purpose - the world it really wants to have - of such a being.

It sounds like an Anglo-Catholic church which tou went to. It would be, as you say, a Protestant church in the Anglican tradition but which retains some of the trappings of the Catholic church. How are you finding it?
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Old 02-12-2020, 07:56 AM   #193 (permalink)
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I've only been to the new church once, but I liked it. It's on a cemetery and I heard that cemetery's end up being spiritual highways and that's why the church is built there, because it's spiritually supercharged.

I have finally gotten a bid closer to home with work! I've been on the move for an entire year, every month having to go somewhere new and meet all new people, in different stations, with loooooooong commutes. But I'm back! I'm home! It's a great station too, in a brand new building, less than 5 min from home. And I know a whole bunch of people, lots of old faces, plus some people from around the city who I met this year while on the move. It's Aces!

This year had to happen the way it did though. I think God was protecting me in a weird way. The spiritual awakening I went through was really hard. It was better that I was always a stranger everywhere I went because it allowed me to stay private while my entire ego and belief systems were restructured, and now that I'm stable again, I'm ready to own a position and reenter the world with my new eyes and ears and connection with God.

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I don't know how other religions deal with the problem of evil but it seems to me that if there is a supremely good God then evil must be ultimately defeated because it cannot be part of the ultimate purpose - the world it really wants to have - of such a being.
I think evil can be defeated, for a time, but it always regroups and infiltrates and schemes and subverts/perverts again. I think the Earth is a school for souls, and every generation has their own spiritual tests and lessons. Some of us are ascending.... but some of us are descending too. Remember, I'm one of the heretics who thinks the Earth is flat, and that underneath is hell.
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Old 02-12-2020, 11:25 AM   #194 (permalink)
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Well done on getting to work nearer home Wholesome. That will make a big difference to your life I'm sure.

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I'm ready to own a position
I think that's a very important, though difficult, step to take. At some point we must all take a position on important things.

Kierkegaard says that, "faith is an objective uncertainty held fast in passionate inwardness". And most of the rest of life is like that. It's rather like having a relationship with someone. You make a passionate commitment with a bit of theoretical uncertainty! Faith is that kind of personal commitment, and I think for people who believe in a personal God it's a commitment made in response to a personal encounter.

I think it is perfectly possible to have an absolute practical commitment when you cannot say you are theoretically certain. Wouldn't it be odd if you said to your partner "I'm not going to fully commit to our relationship until I have incontrovertible proof that you are worthy of my trust"? I might try it as an experiment with this new woman I've met and report back.

This is a liberal position I guess, since people who are very illiberal would insist on theoretical certainty when such a certainty is not possible. That is almost a definition of an illiberal person - they claim to be certain of something when no theoretical certainty is possible, and you see it everywhere.
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Old 02-13-2020, 08:05 AM   #195 (permalink)
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I've been with my boyfriend for almost 7 years, and I'm still working on trusting him fully. Trust is a struggle for me. But I've been betrayed, in terrible ways, by pretty much everyone. Except him, he's stood by me and been good to me, and my boys. He stabilizes me, he's a Taurus, and my moon is in Taurus. It doesn't matter how much proof I have that he loves me and that he's not going to abandon me or abuse me, I still always hold part of myself back, and maintain my independence.

It's gotten better though, since I connected with God. Last year, when I had that miscarriage, after freaking out about being pregnant, I was totally spiritually bankrupt. I had no faith, or trust, in anything but myself, which is why I got so scared. Now I see how interconnected and weaved together it all is, and how necessary the struggles and lessons were along the way, how it led me to the place where my soul was ready for the spiritual blessings I received.
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:06 PM   #196 (permalink)
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I had no faith, or trust, in anything but myself,
I think you're right to put faith and trust together like that. Faith is often understood as belief in a doctrine but I prefer Martin Luther's take on it that even faith is God's gift to us. So even when we talk about our own faith, it’s about God reaching his hand out towards me, not us reaching our hands out towards him.

That’s an important difference because we often feel that we have to believe or do certain things in order to be spiritual/right with God. Luther is saying, “No,no! God does it all.” He's saying that all we need to do is to trust God and live in the knowledge that that our relationship with him is secure. Perhaps you felt something like this when faced with your loss.



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Old 02-14-2020, 12:34 PM   #197 (permalink)
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"your ego dissolves and you realize the true nature of our reality, which is mind and that we literally all are one, there is no such thing as death and our bodies are an illusion and God's eternal love is unconditional and never have we left it, other than in the dream of the fall from Grace, which is just an illusionary dream and never has God been unloving towards us and we can wake up and remember God's eternal unconditional love"

Bill Hicks.
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Old 02-14-2020, 06:35 PM   #198 (permalink)
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never has God been unloving towards us and we can wake up and remember God's eternal unconditional love
(So true, guys )

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all we need to do is to trust God and live in the knowledge that that our relationship with him is secure
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Old 02-15-2020, 05:07 AM   #199 (permalink)
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Just to go back to Luther because I may have given the impression that he does not think that what we believe is important. He did, but he wanted to emphasise that faith is more than just what we believe and, for him, it is fundamentally about trust. Faith is about trusting a God who makes promises and whose promises may be relied upon. So, for him, faith is a relational notion. It's about trusting God, trusting his promises and so receiving what is promised.

But he wasn't saying that faith is only about our personal attitude of trusting God. It's also about trusting a specific way of seeing ourselves and the world i.e. our beliefs, which for him was the Christian faith.
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Old 02-16-2020, 02:55 AM   #200 (permalink)
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Martin Luther went to his grave trying to warn us about a certain group of people who like to steal and poison our children, and how it tries God's patience that we keep falling for their lies. He warns about not trusting them in any way, and not trying to change them (he tried but gave up), but that we should just stay away from them, and especially keep our children away from them. I only wish I'd heard his warning earlier, my nephew might be alive. He says they think their god rewards them for tricking us and hurting us. We have been passing down stories through the ages about the "other" amongst us, the vampire, the troll, the witch who eats children... The stories of blood libel are ancient and they cross cultures, same story, about the same group of people, over, and over, and over again.
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