F355

I'm just starting out with AVRT, and I have a question...

I feel like if I say to myself, "I'm not ever going to drink again," as my Big Plan, that I'd be lying.

Just being honest.

(I'm still reading through the first chapter of Trimpey's book, so of course, this very concept could be covered at some point later in the book. Still, I wanted to get everyone's feedback on this.)

RobbyRobot

Your experiencing your Addictive Voice because your Beast (desire) is howling because of your Big Plan and using the early ambivalance of your addiction feelings (you want abstinence and you want to drink). I would say ignore the fake morality the AV is attempting to establish by introducing doubt, and continue to slam that Beast to the curb. You already 'know' you want to quit so go with it. The truth is on your side. Nothing wrong with your honesty.

Good Stuff, F355. Best wishes!

Terminally Unique

I responded to your post in the AVRT thread.

Lying to yourself :

langkah

Without intending to you've angered and poked your Beast with the hot prod of your big decision by deciding to disconnect from allowing the unconcious false instincts of the limbic brain to control where you drive and what you buy, and because of this your Beast is slyly suggesting doubts as to your larger brain's sincerity and funnelling these past your primate brain up into your concious higher intellect. In it's primitive and lizardly way it is undermining your lofty better interests with countermanding instructions to derail your post-addictive course.

If Trimpey were here today, he might say 'Your desire to drink/use arises from your animal nature, not to be confused with your human nature. You have become accustomed to having addictive desire, the Beast, as your higher power. As you first attempt to name addictive desire “the Beast,” you may feel it resisting you, so that it can remain your higher power.'

You must simply stop using "The Beast" as your higher power, or "God" as he points out you've been doing all along, and become more true to your human nature, which in the past you have confused with your animal nature. A simple mistake that anyone could easily make.

hereigo

BroMan...

It can take a while to make a "Big Plan". In the mean time, you can still cultivate the wisdom in the RR book/AVRT to work up to that point.

The "Big Plan"...that is a big deal. Actually, almost 3 months sober, I am still dealing with this. That is why I am re-reading the book. In the meantime, I relish in the beauty of life,; in every day and every ordinary and uncomfortable event, that I do not drink, where I would have in the past. I am much better off.

Trimpey says that one's "Big Plan" is a very personal and self-contained event. When we are ready, I think we will.

Nevertheless, the truth in this mindset is working for me.

RobbyRobot

Hmmm.
I wonder about the reliability of the Beast as a higher power. The Beast is the desire born from the addiction being satisfied thru drinking alcohol using drugs. The AV I can understand being a more proper (false) higher power. More effective then simple desire, yes?

Of course higher power understandings is itself the AV talking.

Terminally Unique

Well, for many people, the Addictive Voice is indeed their 'higher power'.

AV: "You need a drink! Go to the liquor store! Now!"

P: "hmm, I really shouldn't, not after what happened last time."

AV: "Resistance is futile! Obey me or I will make you feel miserable!"

P: "Yes, master, getting the car keys now..."

F355

And to think that when you come right to it, it is really the very simple distinction between the primitive brain and the later evolved rational one. So simple, and yet so dastardly! To hell with The Beast!

F355

Sounds like you are off to an excellent start, my man. It is encouraging to read of your progress using AVRT.

F355

It sounds as though you've been down this path yourself, Robby. Glad to hear of your success, and appreciate the encouragement! Thanks so much.

hereigo

F355,

Your "avatar" looks as if you are contemplating your status with addiction...
as if you still want to be addicted. Or, maybe you are just a very thoughtful and introspective person. Either way, its all good, because you must seriously decide to quit, before you do. Just quit. I did. Life is very, very different now. I am still somewhat fragile, but I am such a better and stronger person. I am able to begin to learn again; to begin to communicate with others. This is not easy to do, at times, but the RR book is my guide. Get it together, bro.

You CAN do it. I am doing it. So can YOU.

HIG

langkah

Ah, I see what you're saying...

1. We were powerless over our AV-that our drives had become unmanageable.

2. We came to believe a power greater than ourselves was removing us from sanity.

3. We made a decision to return our will and our lives back from a power greater than ourselves.

Is there a chapter dedicated to those of us who can't buy into the HP thing Trimpey's outlined?

Terminally Unique

I would make the following changes, Langkah:

1. We thought we were powerless over our AV-that our drives had become unmanageable.

2. We came to believe a power lower than ourselves was removing us from sanity.

3. We made a decision to take our will and our lives back from a power lower than ourselves.



PS: Trimpey did write once that he was concerned that RR would be accused of being 'like AA', but focusing on lower powers instead of higher powers.

hereigo

Here is where the chasm between 12-step recovery and RR is addressed.

It is true, there is a division. Nevertheless, we could all go on and on about these very different approaches to achieving sanity (via non-using).

I do not think this "argument" can be resolved. If AA works for you, then you are blessed. If AA is not your bag, then there is a polar opposite approach, which is RR/AVRT.

I have tried both, and RR worked for me. But for my brother and my friend, AA is the way. There is no relevant argument, is there? And yet, the argument MUST be addressed. There is no answer.

Point is, F355 is seeking help. All of our personal experiences, both successful and failed, can be presented to him as evidence.

F355, keep on. Keep your vision on what life can be like without your addiction. You have a choice to either:

1) continue to use and live with the consequences;

2) quit using, attend AA meetings, turn your life over to a higher power; or

3) quit using, read "Rational Recovery", and embrace its bare-bones principles. "Rational Recovery" (the book) is not perfect. But it is the closest thing that I have seen to guide me out of the darkness. If you are attracted to AA, then I say go with it. Embrace the fellowship. If that does not suit you, then RR is the other way to go. It seems to me that most every other method is something in-between...or;

4) seek alternative measures/programs...(hypnotherapy, acupuncture, past-life readings, sweat-lodges...whatever...I have tried most of them)

There is always psycho-therapy, aversion-therapy, nutritional/supplement programs, multi-faceted/high-dollar "Malibu-Resort" rehabs, etc., etc. etc.

The real question is, do you want to quit? If so, then you must realize that you actually have to give up the drug that makes you feel high.

There is so much downside to the lifestyle of getting high. You know that.

There is so much good in establishing a clean life, that you cannot understand until you have done it for a while. I am just starting to get the hang of it.

It gets better and better as time goes by, and the fruits of your efforts are revealed. I am learning this as I go. But it is quite apparent.

My recommendation...stick with the RR book, if it interests you. Read it 5 times. I am in the 2nd reading, so I intend to do that myself. I also have about 3 other books to read. But, I am not using, so I can actually read books and move forward with all aspects of my life. Whatever works, go with it.

Last word from me...RR/AVRT is for me.

Peas and loaf, peas and loaf









Peace
HIG

freshstart57

Langkah, I was letting the alcohol drive me crazy and destroy everything I loved and needed. When I decided that I didn't have to put up with that any more and that I no longer needed to drink, I quit. That was my experience, for what it is worth.