Beginning to doubt whether AA is right for me
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
Hi again lavenderrain....
Here is a link to various recovery programs
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-programs.html
Or perhaps you have already found
something that is working for you.
Here is a link to various recovery programs
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-programs.html
Or perhaps you have already found
something that is working for you.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The Swish Alps, SF CA
Posts: 2,144
interesting thread....
so what follows is my opinion, and strictly my opinion, I'm probably wrong, I am frequently wrong and that's OK with me.
Where I got sober, and am now, we absolutely don't argue about God, it's a non issue, and I'm very sorry to see the difficulty people have with it.
We have Buddhists, Taoists, Christians etc, but we take very seriously "why don't you choose your own concept of God"
I'm a pagan...of the worst sort...I take stuff from pre-Christianity ie; druids, Taoism, Buddhism....and as Christianity sees it, "I don't believe in God", I don't believe in an otherness, or an all powerful guiding intelligence, and I share at group level "My God doesn't have a willy!!!!"
Yet I'm well respected by everyone in the program, even to people who don't always agree with me or even like me very much. It's considered a "god given" right to have my "own god" hahahaha hohohoh ...ooooh, sorry
I talk to Christians, Buddhists, and for lack of a better word I have to use the word "God" on occasion. The program was based on a Christian group, so that's the language they use...no worries, for me.
it's a non issue.
I have been to meetings all over California, England, London, Liverpool, Scotland, Mexico, New York, in airports...
it's never been an issue with me, anywhere.
two stories, one, a guy goes to a monastery to get "peaceful" he tries to meditate but is unable to, one day he's talking to his teacher, teach asks him how he's doing, he says " I can't concentrate with all this noise, the cars driving by, the chanting going on outside, that school down the street with all the kids playing, it all bothers me, I don't see how any of you people can be peaceful with all this racket.
The teacher says, "are they really coming in here and bothering you, or are you going out and "fighting" with them?"
second, The Buddha says his teachings are like a raft, and after you cross the stream it's best to set the raft down, ie why are you carrying the raft on your head after it no longer serves it's purpose. He also said "people with strong opinions just run around and bother other people.
So, yeah, just like anywhere, in AA there are "emotional cripples" that try to get you to see things "their way" or will use AA to "sell" their particular brand of religion, they get shut down pretty fast.
As I see it, My Primary purpose is "to stay sober and help others achieve sobriety" and if that means shutting down someone who is trying to peddle his particular brand of religion, I got NO problem with that.
The "chair" at the meeting the other night had as his topic, "what is your concept of God"
My share was "My concept of God is none of your business, just like your concept of God is none of mine, If someone would have tried to push all this "God" crap down my throat at my first meeting, I would have bolted. What I was told was, don't worry about the word God there on the steps, take what you need and leave the rest. Time enough to cross the third step when you come to it.
The steps produce a "spiritual awakening" the definition in the book being "the personality change sufficient to bring about recovery from alcoholism"
The steps work mathematically, they work, they really do, and for the steps to work, they need a "power greater then yourself" it doesn't matter what that power is, I usually suggest to my sponsees if they want instant access to a power greater then themselves they stick their tongue in an electrical outlet.
I could have the giant flying spaghetti monster as "my god" and it wouldn't matter "in my experience"
Alkie number 100 that fought tooth and nail to have "god as we understood him" put in the steps saved my life, he went up against all 99 of those other alcoholics to put that in, and If on occasion I need to be that 1 in 100 I just hope I have the same courage and conviction as he did to fight for what I believe in like he did.
Anyhow, to sum up, I don't believe in God, as Christians know "God", yet have no problem with the word God, nor with anyone in the program about their concept of Godand No One, NO ONE has EVER told me I needed to get "their" God in the program except once, and truthfully I offered to give him a black eye (it was a long time ago and I had stated I was angry at God for letting my sobriety brother Die, I was crying and sharing at a meeting and I was on my way to his funeral and some old dumb F**K countered shared me and said I needed to get AA's God, "God as WE understood him so after the meeting I might have mentioned if he was young I would have popped him in the eye, but that was ONE guy in ONE meeting in 16 years.
anyway, if anyone did try to push their God on me I'd laugh in their face, or convince them with a straight face that the flying spaghetti monster is my God and work on converting them but I'm evil that way, I'm just sorry to see it causes so many issues for so many.
bb quotes 1st edition
so what follows is my opinion, and strictly my opinion, I'm probably wrong, I am frequently wrong and that's OK with me.
Where I got sober, and am now, we absolutely don't argue about God, it's a non issue, and I'm very sorry to see the difficulty people have with it.
We have Buddhists, Taoists, Christians etc, but we take very seriously "why don't you choose your own concept of God"
I'm a pagan...of the worst sort...I take stuff from pre-Christianity ie; druids, Taoism, Buddhism....and as Christianity sees it, "I don't believe in God", I don't believe in an otherness, or an all powerful guiding intelligence, and I share at group level "My God doesn't have a willy!!!!"
Yet I'm well respected by everyone in the program, even to people who don't always agree with me or even like me very much. It's considered a "god given" right to have my "own god" hahahaha hohohoh ...ooooh, sorry
I talk to Christians, Buddhists, and for lack of a better word I have to use the word "God" on occasion. The program was based on a Christian group, so that's the language they use...no worries, for me.
it's a non issue.
I have been to meetings all over California, England, London, Liverpool, Scotland, Mexico, New York, in airports...
it's never been an issue with me, anywhere.
two stories, one, a guy goes to a monastery to get "peaceful" he tries to meditate but is unable to, one day he's talking to his teacher, teach asks him how he's doing, he says " I can't concentrate with all this noise, the cars driving by, the chanting going on outside, that school down the street with all the kids playing, it all bothers me, I don't see how any of you people can be peaceful with all this racket.
The teacher says, "are they really coming in here and bothering you, or are you going out and "fighting" with them?"
second, The Buddha says his teachings are like a raft, and after you cross the stream it's best to set the raft down, ie why are you carrying the raft on your head after it no longer serves it's purpose. He also said "people with strong opinions just run around and bother other people.
So, yeah, just like anywhere, in AA there are "emotional cripples" that try to get you to see things "their way" or will use AA to "sell" their particular brand of religion, they get shut down pretty fast.
As I see it, My Primary purpose is "to stay sober and help others achieve sobriety" and if that means shutting down someone who is trying to peddle his particular brand of religion, I got NO problem with that.
The "chair" at the meeting the other night had as his topic, "what is your concept of God"
My share was "My concept of God is none of your business, just like your concept of God is none of mine, If someone would have tried to push all this "God" crap down my throat at my first meeting, I would have bolted. What I was told was, don't worry about the word God there on the steps, take what you need and leave the rest. Time enough to cross the third step when you come to it.
The steps produce a "spiritual awakening" the definition in the book being "the personality change sufficient to bring about recovery from alcoholism"
The steps work mathematically, they work, they really do, and for the steps to work, they need a "power greater then yourself" it doesn't matter what that power is, I usually suggest to my sponsees if they want instant access to a power greater then themselves they stick their tongue in an electrical outlet.
I could have the giant flying spaghetti monster as "my god" and it wouldn't matter "in my experience"
Alkie number 100 that fought tooth and nail to have "god as we understood him" put in the steps saved my life, he went up against all 99 of those other alcoholics to put that in, and If on occasion I need to be that 1 in 100 I just hope I have the same courage and conviction as he did to fight for what I believe in like he did.
Anyhow, to sum up, I don't believe in God, as Christians know "God", yet have no problem with the word God, nor with anyone in the program about their concept of Godand No One, NO ONE has EVER told me I needed to get "their" God in the program except once, and truthfully I offered to give him a black eye (it was a long time ago and I had stated I was angry at God for letting my sobriety brother Die, I was crying and sharing at a meeting and I was on my way to his funeral and some old dumb F**K countered shared me and said I needed to get AA's God, "God as WE understood him so after the meeting I might have mentioned if he was young I would have popped him in the eye, but that was ONE guy in ONE meeting in 16 years.
anyway, if anyone did try to push their God on me I'd laugh in their face, or convince them with a straight face that the flying spaghetti monster is my God and work on converting them but I'm evil that way, I'm just sorry to see it causes so many issues for so many.
bb quotes 1st edition
*Grateful*
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Midwest
Posts: 2,619
Dig,
Believe you me if there was a way we could go back to normal drinking someone in the program would have found that way by now.
The other day after extreme drama in the room between 2 women I thought to myself, I am so sick of this, I am quitting meetings. The very next thought in my mind was, hey, I could have a drink and noone would have to know......
So you see....FOR ME it was I can't take this anymore, screw it, then I am not longer accountable to others and I can do what I want.
You are right it is a sort of separation when you get into recovery. Today I try not to focus on our differences, but on what we have in common.
Sometimes I think I am so unique, and in reality I am learning I really am not all that unique.
Believe you me if there was a way we could go back to normal drinking someone in the program would have found that way by now.
The other day after extreme drama in the room between 2 women I thought to myself, I am so sick of this, I am quitting meetings. The very next thought in my mind was, hey, I could have a drink and noone would have to know......
So you see....FOR ME it was I can't take this anymore, screw it, then I am not longer accountable to others and I can do what I want.
You are right it is a sort of separation when you get into recovery. Today I try not to focus on our differences, but on what we have in common.
Sometimes I think I am so unique, and in reality I am learning I really am not all that unique.
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