It’s not about (de)programming , it’s about “locus of control” it seems, from your above posts.

In AVRT, SMART and TFM, the locus of control is inside ones own mind. Whereas in other programs, to include your cited case, the “locus of control” was external to your own mind: i.e., you phoned a favourite outpatient counsellor after you experienced a “trigger”. In the same way that an AA member, would phone their sponsor, or another member, in response to a “trigger“.

Locus of control is the crux and once I determined that my locus of control was centric, and not outside myself, I was a able to curtail my addiction. Can you imagine the freedom you’d feel if you were in control of yourself, because you, yourself, didn’t want to drink; therefore not at risk of drinking and and not dependant upon outside sources, to tell you not to drink? From my experience, it’s awesome!

An external locus of control is disempowering; an internal locus of control, as posited in TFM, enhances a sense of efficaciousness, both real and perceived. That is one thing that resonates with me incisively. A model in which happiness is the impetus behind choice implies an actual ability to choose. Therefore, from my understanding, TFM presupposes an internal locus of control.

I wonder how TFM would treat a faith in God. Would this mean that your locus of control is external?

I don't believe it would because if you want to change your level of substance use to be more in line with your faith this is simply another way of saying that you are happier following your faith than not following it. Your choice to follow your faith is an autonomous act driven by the 'pursuit of happiness' and so your focus of control is still internal.

AlericB,

In the framework on TFM, I think it’s possible to have an internal locus of control and still be influenced by external contingencies. I don’t see any inherent inconsistencies. Additionally, I think faith in a higher power is part of one’s internal locus of control, and guides the one’s choices in pursuing happiness.

Daredevil,

I didn't mean at all to sugest otherwise and sorry if it appeared that way :) I agreed with what you were saying and just wondered where religious faith fitted in.

I found your's and Tatsy's distinction about the locus of control very useful and I'm glad that TFM does accommodate faith.

I don't find the idea of being happy to quit repulsive at all. I just believe that happiness is transient, as are all other emotions.

The fact of the matter is that many people do have reservations about quitting and staying quit. The deprivation effect has an empirical basis. I think TFM would attribute the phenomena to the belief that people hold that a life without substance is a life of deprivation. People who are happy to be abstinent view substance use as something that was depriving them from living a happy life. It’s an important distinction as per the model: if a person views abstinence as deprivation then s/he will likely considering using. If a person views abstinence as a means to pursue happiness (whatever that means to said individual), then abstinence is a means towards happiness that reinforces the decision to quit and stay quit.

There is a post from Steven earlier saying that the word happiness is used in a wide sense to cover a wide range of emotions and ideals, and that 'happiness' was chosen over 'better' for example because of it's human warmth.

It's intended for more than just a simple emotion. It includes self-respect for example which as well as emotion includes rational and evaluative judgement.

I agree. I think when one is promoting any model for improvement it's essential to use universally attractive phrases.

I am still working my way through this thread, but am finding it very interesting. The methods described really are what I have felt for myself for sometime. I bought the Kindle version of the book and hope to finish it over the weekend. I'm sure I'll have more to share once I've finished it. Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread, I have found it very helpful!!

Initially, stopping drinking had nothing to do with happiness. It made my life suck less. So perhaps the word ‘happiness’ is setting some teeth on edge.

I believe happiness is transient too. So when I talk about being happy to quit, or finding your happier option, I don't mean that it results in nonstop constant bliss. I think I've mentioned that on this thread a few times. TFM specifically says that maintaining a change in your substance use is not dependent on being constantly happy every second of every day - it's only reliant on believing that the change is your happier option - and thus that going back to your former habit is your less happy, less pleasing, worse option.

Glad to see I am not the only grouch around here who thinks that happiness is way overrated ;)
Very interesting thread btw, love everyone's contributions.

That's just it...it's reliant on that belief.

I have believed that change was my happier option, and I have also changed my mind about that and believed that my former habits were my happier option. Then I've changed my mind back.

Since I don't have the book, I'd love to hear some strategies/best practices on maintaining the happier option of not drinking/using even when it doesn't feel like the happier option?

ru12

If stopping drinking made your life ‘suck less’ then it made it better, and per the TFM, pursuit of the better life is, in essence, the pursuit of happiness. If you didn’t think your life was going to be better—or ‘suck less’ – you would not have stopped drinking. Therefore, stopping drinking was an act consistent with TFM.

Whew!!! Just finished reading this entire thread, took about 4 hours!! I have drawn a number of conclusions from it.

First, I am grateful for SR and this forum for allowing this discussion. In most places it would have completely degraded into flame wars about "my program is better than yours!!". Shout out to MG for helping to keep it on track at times!! It is great to have a place where people can discuss a topic on which they may not completely agree in a rational and thoughtful way.

Secondly, I appreciate Steven for jumping in to discuss and help explain TFM. I can count on one hand and have 4 fingers left over the times I have read a discussion on a particular "recovery" method that actually includes the author of the method. Nothing like going straight to the horses mouth. (That is really a strange saying!! LOL)

As I mentioned earlier I have purchased this book and have just began reading it. From what I have read so far as well as what I have learned from this thread, this approach pretty much sums up just about everything I have felt about "recovery" for the last 20+ years. For many years I understood that 12-step recovery was the only option for recovery, and at the time perhaps it was. It however just didn't mesh with my personal "morals" (perhaps that isn't the right word) or philosophy on life. This is not meant in any way to bash 12-step programs. I have known many people over the years that these programs have helped, unfortunately I was not one of them. This has lead me to a great deal of guilt and feelings of failure, as I seemed to be one of the people who just couldn't be helped.

Over the past few years other programs have become more known and accepted, but I still had a hard time accepting the lifelong commitment and support required by most of them. This program seems to require just a simple shift in thinking.

As an atheist, I always struggled with the concept of a "Higher Power" being able to help me with my issue. I also struggled with the concept of being "powerless" over my addiction, in spite of a good deal of proof to the contrary. I have always felt that I am, in fact, the only one who has ANY power over my "addiction". No matter what the situation, I was still ALWAYS the only one who made the CHOICE to drink or use. There were many extenuating circumstances, there always are in life, but at the end of the day it was still always a choice.

It seems like a bit of a "duh" moment, but when it was pointed out to me that if I could make a choice to use, I could just as easily make a choice not to use. As I realized this it is like the clouds parted and the sunshine suddenly appeared. Is this happiness?? As a person who deals with Bi-Polar disorder happiness is not a place I often reside. It is usually manic or depressed. Substances allowed me to exist someplace in the middle.

I am not naive enough to think that now that I have reached these conclusions that all of my problems will suddenly just go away, especially having to deal with mental illness, but they do suddenly feel much more manageable.

Anyway, I just wanted to thank everyone who has taken part in this thread and how much it has helped me personally. It's funny, I have been a member of SR almost from the beginning, but hadn't visited the site in years, but something brought me back a few days ago. Fate? God? Who's to say? I'm just thankful!!

Yes, I think it is. The clouds parting reveals the true expansive nature of our minds where we are always free to choose our happier substance use option.

The Happiness Trap is great and plays into this discussion.

Check it out.

Andy,

I found your response to my post of that previous article closed minded and offensive, and I expect you either did not read the article or read it with the same closed mind.

I can assure you that intolerance of the type displayed does not lead to happiness with or with out substances.

So be it, this is not the way I roll on line or in person. But I am happy and I do believe that my decision not to drink and never to quit the decision was based in large part on the fact that to do so makes me happier than the alternative.

You should look into the science around the fact that actions create feelings -- the act of not drinking or choosing not to drink makes one happy. You have to act first, you can't wait for the feeling because you are never going to feel like it.

I wish you well, and I am glad that the thread was so helpful to Tyler.

Exit stage left.

responded by PM