A Great Quote On Spirituality
 

Spirituality, in my understanding of it, is about the inextricable interconnectedness that unites all things. It is the energy that comprises the Whole. It is about recognizing my place in it. About being respectful and mindful of my environment and all that surrounds. So I call my "higher power" Interconnectedness. Not centered in some-thing or some-one or some-belief or some-program-religion-doctrine, rather, based on reasoning out how it all works. Focus on understanding inter-connections (patterns, natural law, natural order, evolution) to me is deeply spiritual. Because it removes me from the center, outside of my own ego. It's not about ego, it's about seeing how things connect.

Aloneagainor

Couldn't agree more. And I just love it when the connections are almost tangible. My experience of meeting people from SR was most certainly spiritual in nature, based on that description. I could feel the connections.

Thanks for highlighting that, Five.

Thank you for hearing what I'm trying to get at here. When I've tried to explain the concept of interconnectedness people just roll their eyes and change the subject. They'd rather talk about what's on TV. Which is fine, I excuse myself (or otherwise escape) and return to what I was thinking about. To have a place to express this, and be understood, and receive response? I'm still in near disbelief. I'd reconciled myself to a very isolated life. That seems to be changing, at least in mind. Grateful.

I only talk about it with people who speak the same language. With others, I just feel it. I think they do too.

Sometimes talking about this stuff too much can take the fun out of it. Its a deeply personal experience, I feel, for the most part. Something I would rather not explain away...

I agree, Five, which is why a smile or a squeeze of the shoulder conveys more than words ever could sometimes.

uhhhh. the following user says thank you to five for this useless...errr...uhhhh..I mean useful post:

feary.

my how we've grown.

Is it useless to express these ideas? I think that's how ideas are conveyed.
Maybe I'm just writing them out to clarify my own understanding. Keeping things confined to the inner workings of my own mind... errr...uhhhh...reality.
Just trying to regain a foothold here in trying to connect perceptions with realizations. Perhaps I'm still not connecting very well.
my how I've wandered.

I appreciate knowing I'm not alone. Herein discovering the or to not having to be alone again. Again, grateful.

Not relating to anyone, and no-one relating to me, a year ago in the spring I thought to reconsider my approach, made an effort, stayed off drugs for 2 months, but soon started back in just a bit, within 4 months was deeper in than before. Hiding even more this time because I was supposed to be 'recovered'. Late last year I completely gave up trying and decided to opt out of trying to connect with people entirely, it was just too damn much trouble. Why bother with people when all I need can be found within my own solitary pursuits. Reading, writing, hiking, music, and drugs. What more would I ever want or need. Self-contained and self-confident and self-assured I knew what I was doing, I avoided everyone. But problems arise in that, solitude does have its drawbacks, it's not natural...or even very functional.

I found SR in February and have given reconnecting another try. Trying to relate to my family, I wrote to my parents a story about some things happeneing here on the farm. About the Cooper's hawk that's stalking the flock and swiping chicks, adding observations about the strength and natural beauty of the hawk, and the way the whole system of predator/ prey functions. It's quite impressive to see such raw nature in action. I wrote descriptively, trying to convey the awe I experience in watching this.

I just got my response from dad.

Why don't you just shoot the hawk???

Yes, I got my response. This is a rough night. I wonder what's the point in trying to connect with people, when we can find all we need without speaking a word. What's the point in expression of any ideas.

Have you ever read stuff about 'dependent origination' - it's budhist but not supernatural in any way, just reasoning about how each thing's origination is dependent. I love it - it 'feels' deeply true AND I think it holds water on the reasoning front.

When I think of language, how much it's needed in thought and concept then I remember that the language I use is the gift to me from countless generations. When I think about language and thought it's a gift again best wrapped by oliver sacks in discussing deafness - but how many gifts did he recieve before he could wrap it for me and so many others?

There's not an act or a part of my being that soley lies inside me.

So yeah - I like interconnectedness!!

Equus--that you answered my question while I was writing it...some connection there, I appreciate. The capacity for language is a learned process, we progress in our ability to communicate through engagement, interaction, communication with others. The medium of langage influences thought; written, spoken, visual, heard...all affect transmission of the message, how it's understood.

Reason enough to keep communicating. It IS a gift, from the generations. We exist now, passing it along. What we do and who we are affects the world around us. That includes altering perceptions, through both what is said and how it is expressed. All interconnected. Thank you for reminding me.

I need to be with people. I just need to be with people who don't contribute to my own unhealthy thinking whilst I am still unravelling it . Therein lies my choice.

I had a period of time last year where I isolated. I felt disconnected from everyone and didn't have the words to express how I was feeling. I have lost a good friend because she had expectations of me that I couldn't live up to and she had no concept of what I had been through and the effect it had on my core sense of self. But that's OK. She doesn't need to understand -I do. One day we may connect again. Or we may not. For now, I prefer to seek out those who do understand my experience and its effect.

I think the best think about athiest 'spirituality' is that it has not got one.

Anything is possible...;)

Naturalistic Spirituality
 

Expectations! Preconceptions! Convictions! Beliefs! All be damned. They're so destructive, restrictive, constricting, misleading. Ignis fatuus!

Thrown off/ not thinking straight inside my head last night I set about reading.
Thank you kindly for the links at the top of this forum, Don S. and Five.
They keep me thinking on track. On WHY poring over IDEAS is important. Necessary. From the links I found this:

On naturalism..
By seeing that you are indeed caused to be who you are and a fully physical creature, you discover yourself fully connected to nature and to the physical and social world around you. You discover yourself to be completely at home in the universe, on the planet, and in your community. This is the basis for a naturalistic spirituality, an approach to your ultimate personal concerns that celebrates the grandeur of the cosmos and the beauty and wonder of nature.

Naturalism shows that since you didn’t create yourself, you can’t take ultimate credit for who you are in the way traditional supernatural views of the self make possible. You, a natural creature, have to give “credit” for your successes and good deeds to all those conditions - people, places, things, and genetics - that made you a good person. There are no longer grounds for feeling morally superior, prideful, self-important, arrogant, or for holding any other ego-laden attitude or belief about yourself. Just be grateful for your good fortune.

For the same reasons, you can’t take ultimate blame for being nasty, selfish, lazy, fearful, shy, or for any other personal defect. Those characteristics too are fully caused and owe their existence to a host of environmental and perhaps genetic conditions. Seeing that you don’t have contra-causal free will reduces unnecessary and counter-productive guilt and shame aimed at the self, permitting more productive efforts to change. Seeing that being nasty or selfish are fully caused doesn’t mean you shouldn't want to stop being nasty or selfish. We don’t lose our moral compass in accepting naturalism.

By understanding that you are caused and just how you are caused to be and to act, you gain control and power over yourself. Instead of supposing you can just will yourself to be other than you are (stronger, smarter, more altruistic), you understand that self-change is a matter of particular conditions. Create the conditions first, and then the change will follow. Even the desire to change has its causes in conditions, so if you want to want to change, we can arrange for that as well. Of course it’s not always easy to discover what the right conditions are and how to create them, but it’s a better bet than counting on willpower. By giving up the freely willing soul, you discover your real source of power : understanding your causality, through and through.
-end

In sum, higher power is not God or anything supernatural. All is completely the product of natural order. Cause and effect-- the appreciation of causality. Choosing to understand how it works is up to the mind of the individual. Contemplation of interconnectedness and how everything works together. 'Dependent origination' ((Equus))

...from Naturalism: "Naturalism permits us to be wiser in setting up conditions in which we behave well toward each other in the first place. After all, since actions always result from causes, we can learn to control those causes to our benefit, and the benefit of others we interact with." ((Minnie))

Anything that's possible within the realm of possibilities...is possible. ((Five))

Thank you all so much for helping me to keep thinking straight.

It was a joke. I am fairly certain mill understands.

haha.

I just realized that was your quote gainor.

I am such an as*hole.

My how I am still the same.

Good stuff Gainor....was just stirring the brown.

Faery! Thank you for clarifying...I was perplexed! Which, granted, is my usual state of being so I'm pretty comfortable there, but nothing was making sense. You have a tripped-out Salvador Dali quote as part of your identity...and your avatar... and I've read your posts...your words baffled me. And reminded me to not read into things so freakin' DEEP all the time. I can't help it, my mind probes to the depths first, before considering context. Better to test the waters first before diving to the bottom. Another tap in the recurring theme of "slow down". Peace.

According to the Pali suttas, “Consciousness is dependent arising. It is a phenomenon arising due to mutually dependent conditions. Without these causal conditions, there is no consciousness.”

"If one erroneously believes consciousness is ego, then he will experience suffering, and will be unable to free himself from suffering. Therefore, one must know the nature of consciousness, which is dependent arising."

Interconnectedness. Maybe I was supposed to have been raised Buddhist. I suspect the whole world would have made more sense and I wouldn't have had to do so much wandering/ searching the looongg way around to get to this point of understanding. Which seems of infinite importance to comprehend...

Interconnected, well hell yes, at the very least we are interconnected by time. I am dam sure we are interconnected in other ways too, and I am sure that there are connections to past people as well. There is something about having children and seeing your parents, grandparents, yourself ....

Then I meet people and I instantly know them ... I watch a TV show and think, "hey that was something I was just thinking about", I come onto SR and read something that is so very, very pertinent to me right at this particular moment in time. Then I see how things just keep revolving ... pattens .... connections .... stuff

BUT not everyone sees the same stuff I do, que sera, that is not a bad thing, I am sure there is stuff that I could be seeing that I don't, depending on where my mind set is.

I do like to find people thinking about the same stuff as me to share with. I just read someone saying that SR really rocks, I am inclined to agree, great place, great people.

Cheers,
Brigid :)