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Athiests in AA??

Old 07-29-2006, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by paulmh
Hey, don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to persuade people to go. I'm trying to stop people misrepresenting it. If it's not for you, great. But if people are telling others not to go because they have an unjustified prejudice, then they harm others.
To many people, AA is religious. Several supreme court decisions in the States support that it is. Like Autumn said, I appreciate that some are able to secularize it, and make it work. For me, that is like trying to turn my car into a truck. It's much easier to sell the car, and buy a truck. Nobody is telling anyone not to go, however, some have explained why they don't go. It's not a matter of prejudice, it's a matter of choice. And as I said on another thread, I should be able to say that AA is not right for me, without being accused of not wanting, or not being willing, to get/stay sober.
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Old 07-29-2006, 09:19 AM
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DK I don't think anyone here was telling anyone that if they didn't want to go to AA/NA they didn't want or wern't willing to get clean/sober.

THis thread is about how people that are secular deal with the god thing in AA/NA, not weather someone who is secular should go to AA/NA or not.
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Old 07-29-2006, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Blake
DK I don't think anyone here was telling anyone that if they didn't want to go to AA/NA they didn't want or wern't willing to get clean/sober.
Sorry Blake, that was from another thread that Paul and I were posting on.
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Old 07-29-2006, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by paulmh
The thread is about going to AA or not. Yet again, there is a bigotry among people that AA is religious.
I go to a meeting, they end with the Lord's Prayer. I AM religious, and I don't want that. That is bigoted?

Originally Posted by Blake
THis thread is about how people that are secular deal with the god thing in AA/NA, not weather someone who is secular should go to AA/NA or not.
When I do attend meetings, I deal with it by going to the one (albeit daily) meeting I have found, out of over 100. The one meeting that doesn't put emphasis on god, but on us and our changes. There is talk of a HP, yes, but in a very generic sense, not a 'god' sense at all.
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Old 07-30-2006, 02:26 AM
  # 65 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by felicity

I do take some advice from AA and NA, though ... such as taking it day by day, being grateful for what you have, faking it until you make it, and having close friends. This is practical, good advice to live by.
So do I.
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Old 07-30-2006, 03:15 AM
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Doesn't that fall into "take what you need and leave the rest" ?
So what's the problem?

To many people, AA is religious. Several supreme court decisions in the States support that it is.
Could you state any? I am not aware of them, and would be interested in reading the case history if so.

I agree that no on should be told that if you don't do AA/NA your a relapse waiting to happen. I suggest that's the intolerance of the individual speaking - not the program.

Years ago, I took classes in a particular psychological theory to work with children's behavior. I became an expert in it. One of the precepts was to stop spinning your wheels if something's not working -- to try something different.
Since then, I've learned multiple types of psychological theories towards the same end. And I think of them all in terms of the first. I won't spin my wheels using a theory that may not work with particular kids; I go on to another to try and reach them. But, it's all following what the first said -- stop spinning my wheels; try something different.

I guess I just try to keep it simple. It works for me.

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Old 07-30-2006, 03:59 AM
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There's loads of info out there if you google AA + religious + Supreme Court.

Here's one link http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...33/ai_81827987
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Old 07-30-2006, 04:00 AM
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when i came and found recovery working in my life i initally wanted to share it with the world. i now believe attraction works better than promotion. yet that initial fervor of wanting to save and enlighten others with the 12 steps, namely my family, helped me to understand certain christians who preach their gospel, even unwanted and unwelcome. the intention to share deep inner healing. for me it goes hand in hand with spiritual but i accept others if they disagree for themselves. thats their business and my business is my business. somewhere in the CAL i remember reading we don't spend too mucht ime defining the higher power but make sure to have one (step 2). preachers and self-righteous religious peoples used to enrage me but i personally have reclaimed religion (religion is relationship with god) as my own. i think god however you understand him/her/it is a PERSONAL experience. i also remember that what irritates me about others is usally something within me. in the religious case it was partly family stuff but partly my own self-righteousness, an armor that only the strongest light can pierce. peace, amen.
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Old 07-30-2006, 04:01 AM
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Thanks, minnie!

Shalom!
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Old 07-30-2006, 04:37 AM
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new thread idea...
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Old 08-01-2006, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by **** ma
I went to my first meeting tonight.(the prayer at the end weirded me out a lot.)
When we open our meetings, we have a moment of silence, followed by the Serenity Prayer, "for those who care to join us."

We have an older gentlemen who does not care for the Serenity Prayer or the prayer at the end of the meeting. We circle up and he stands to the side and waits for us to finish. And no one is bothered by it. And that man has done that for well over four years...and he is still sober.
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Old 08-01-2006, 01:10 PM
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I agree that no on should be told that if you don't do AA/NA your a relapse waiting to happen. I suggest that's the intolerance of the individual speaking - not the program.
The little white book comes really close to saying its NA or the highway Teach,

What is there left to do? There seems to be
this alternative: either go on as best we can to the bitter ends—jails, institutions, or death—or
find a new way to live. In years gone by, very few addicts ever had this last choice. Those who
are addicted today are more fortunate. For the first time in man's entire history, a simple way
has been proving itself in the lives of many addicts.It is available to us all. This is a simple
spiritual—not religious—program, known as Narcotics Anonymous.
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Old 08-01-2006, 01:16 PM
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I was just as afraid of being a "dry drunk" as relapsing. That little phobia indoctrination ripped my freedom from beneath my feet.
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Old 08-01-2006, 01:17 PM
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"or find a new way to live" doesn't translate to NA or the highway. It just says that NA is a simple way to find a new way to live....there are others.....no where does it ever say NA is the only way to recover.
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Old 08-01-2006, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Blake
"or find a new way to live" doesn't translate to NA or the highway. It just says that NA is a simple way to find a new way to live....there are others.....no where does it ever say NA is the only way to recover.
This is what makes me feel that way

In years gone by, very few addicts ever had this last choice. Those who
are addicted today are more fortunate.
This is sounding like I'm bashing NA. I'm really trying not to. I am just trying to share my feelings and ESH regards to this program and how it was presented to me.
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Old 08-01-2006, 01:34 PM
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I understand that you are not bashing NA. I didn't take it like that. I'm just sharing my experience and knowledge too.

The little white book that this reading was taken from was written in 1962 (edit:I put the wrong year in hear originally), at that time there were not options for recovery programs from drug addiction...there was AA, but far from the rational recovery's, Life ring's and SMART's of today. Narcotics Anonymous has been responsible for the recovery of millions of addicts, so with the publication of the little white book (one of the first peices of NA literature) in 1976, it was a time where "addicts were more fortunate"

Addicts are even more fortunate today than back then b/c there are many was to find a new way to live.
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Old 09-19-2006, 05:55 PM
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Hi

When AA does not live up to respecting the beliefs and opinions of others, I would say I am saddened or disappointed. Hate is too strong a emotion and it speaks to the state of the person that is having the feeling just as much as to the target of the hate.

Abbadun



Originally Posted by 2dayzmuse
Marte, don't you think that hate is a waste of time and energy? It is so harsh. You may dislike AA, not believe in it, but why hate? I say let it be and move forward and leave the hatred behind. For claiming to be an humanist, it seems you are lacking in concerns, interests and the welfare of humans who choose a different belief system than your own. What would motivate someone to hate a program that saves lives?
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Old 09-19-2006, 06:03 PM
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I totally agree with the ideas expressed about the strength of the word, "hate."

However, as a side note, I'd like to add that it's NOT AA or NA or any other group which fails to live up to what it claims as it's policy. A group is an inanimate object, made of animate beings. So, it's the individual members of the group who act in such a manner.
See the difference?

Shalom!
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Old 09-20-2006, 05:05 AM
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Hi

Yes they are individual groups, but they all read from the same texts that set the same 100% negative tone towards Atheists. Some groups do better with ignoring the ideas in the texts about Atheists, but you can only do so much with the material given.

Abbadun


Originally Posted by historyteach
I totally agree with the ideas expressed about the strength of the word, "hate."

However, as a side note, I'd like to add that it's NOT AA or NA or any other group which fails to live up to what it claims as it's policy. A group is an inanimate object, made of animate beings. So, it's the individual members of the group who act in such a manner.
See the difference?

Shalom!
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Old 09-20-2006, 01:56 PM
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I'm not really sure what you mean, Abbadun. Can you explain?
Thanks...

Shalom!
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