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Athiests in AA??

Old 02-05-2007, 10:03 AM
  # 301 (permalink)  
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Thank you, Morning Glory.

Paul
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Old 02-05-2007, 01:58 PM
  # 302 (permalink)  
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Hi Paul

I have always said that AA will never change, so why would I expect it to be perfect? These imperfections are part of the program then why would some people expect people not to focus on them as much as anything else in the program?

AA texts are not critical of any one type of Atheists, it just labels all of them as “the one who will not believe” and then piles a mountain of negative comments about this group.

Sure AA has statements about bleeding Deacons and other types of persona, but only with Atheists does the Authors dedicate on Chapter in the BB and much of Step 2 in attacking the character of All Atheists.

For the record I am not bashing AA this information is part of the texts. I do not expect AA to be perfect, but I do expert that the program/teachings to more often be described as being screwed up in some/many areas. As is the derogatory statements are being taught as if they were excellent material

The program does have statements of about being tolerance and having respect of the beliefs and opinions of others.





Originally Posted by paulmh View Post
Wow this has come on quite a bit.

For me it keeps coming back to - some people expect AA to be perfect and get upset when it isn't. That to me is about not being able to manage one's expectations, not through any fault of the fellowship and its programme.

I know there are AA members who think that the BB is divinely inspired. I don't. I think it's an inspirational book though - a bit like Catch 22, or Great Expectations, or (insert your favourite book here). It's particularly inspirational because it helps me to makes sense of my condition. And it's full of things that I find - if I let myself - infuriating. But it's no more critical of a particular type of atheist - the "savage" one, than it is of religious people of certain types - the "bleeding deacons", the "minister who sighs over the sins of the 20th century". What does AA teach me? That unhealthy emotional practices will always lead me to be unhealthy. And that stands whether someone is intolerant and atheistic, or intolerant and theistic - and I know plenty of both types inside and outside the fellowship. And of course I see the same traits in me. But thankfully I can see progress.

Nothing but a profound intervention by people who knew exactly what was wrong with me, coupled with an equally profound need on my part to save my own life could have saved me from alcoholism. I can still remember how bad I felt. Everything else is just so damned academic.
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Old 02-05-2007, 03:23 PM
  # 303 (permalink)  
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Abbadun,

Is there a way you can move past the general remarks about the negatives you see in AA and work on it on a personal level? How does this personally affect you? How can you personally deal with this if you continue to choose to attend meetings? How can you move from being reactive to being proactive in your recovery? Are there things you can post on this forum that will help others in their recovery that relate to a secular approach? Are there personal requests for help that will assist you with your recovery? Are you interested in other methods of recovery that you can discuss on these threads?

If we don't get past this it turns into a constant discussion about the pros and cons of AA based on everyone's individual experience and opinions. I can't see a reason to have a never ending discussion going back and forth with different opinions being discussed. I do appreciate how respectful this discussion has been, but at some point it would be helpful to move on and find some positive solutions. I am not a member of a 12 step program, but I've found some things from the programs that have helped me. I think I can look at these discussions from a neutral point of view.

I know there are obstacles for secular members in AA and that's probably solved on an individual basis because each person has to come to terms with it in a way that works for them.

I don't have answers. I just know that constant posts about the negatives of any program are pushing the line with the forum rules when there are only negatives without discussing possible solutions on a personal level.

Thanks,
MG
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Old 02-05-2007, 03:42 PM
  # 304 (permalink)  
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Thumbs up

What I got from AA is the process of change that occured within me while doing the 12 steps. I haven't read this thread in it's entirety but for a whole lot of us the program provides a process for change.

Anyone who does an honest 4th step with a good sponsor is gonna come out ahead of their game. If you believe you are drinking or using yourself to death because of "others" or "your past" or "because you can" and you are ready to change THEN these steps provide a process that is an archtype for moving on with no regrets especially for your past.

As an atheist this has been my experience and it is positive!!

Believeing in a god has nothing to do with the archtype of spiritual change. We are spirits, we have psyches and sometimes we need to be guided out of our self imposed darkness. It's got nothing to do with God. It's got everything to do with faith. Big book thumpers have what they want.. the word "God". I got what I wanted and that was the courage to change.
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Old 02-05-2007, 04:37 PM
  # 305 (permalink)  
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Hi Morning Glory

I do not see any reason to "get past" these problems in AA. The material is continuously being taught in the program and so should any discussion of the problems.

I really do not see this as a "pro or con" debate because I have yet to hear from anyone who really likes the Literatures descriptions of Atheists, but these same people are will to suggest not taking about it.

I have gave plenty of suggestions for people and the best is to simply skip some meetings after you have been sober for sometime and spend some time reading material that is more positive and proactive.

MG, I do not see myself as being negative on this, the title of this Thread is "Atheists in AA" and if you can find anything in AA material related to Atheists that is more positive then the sections that I have commented on, I would really, really like to comment and talk about it. It would make my day!

AB



Originally Posted by Morning Glory View Post
Abbadun,

Is there a way you can move past the general remarks about the negatives you see in AA and work on it on a personal level? How does this personally affect you? How can you personally deal with this if you continue to choose to attend meetings? How can you move from being reactive to being proactive in your recovery? Are there things you can post on this forum that will help others in their recovery that relate to a secular approach? Are there personal requests for help that will assist you with your recovery? Are you interested in other methods of recovery that you can discuss on these threads?

If we don't get past this it turns into a constant discussion about the pros and cons of AA based on everyone's individual experience and opinions. I can't see a reason to have a never ending discussion going back and forth with different opinions being discussed. I do appreciate how respectful this discussion has been, but at some point it would be helpful to move on and find some positive solutions. I am not a member of a 12 step program, but I've found some things from the programs that have helped me. I think I can look at these discussions from a neutral point of view.

I know there are obstacles for secular members in AA and that's probably solved on an individual basis because each person has to come to terms with it in a way that works for them.

I don't have answers. I just know that constant posts about the negatives of any program are pushing the line with the forum rules when there are only negatives without discussing possible solutions on a personal level.

Thanks,
MG
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Old 02-05-2007, 04:48 PM
  # 306 (permalink)  
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So, I repeat....
AA is not nice to atheists. We've heard it.
What else do you want to add? How many times do you want to repeat the same thing?
We've HEARD it.

Continuing to repeat the same thing is not only boring, it's bashing.

Take what you need, and leave the rest is indeed a choice you have.
And I honestly do wish you peace...

Shalom!
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Old 02-05-2007, 06:38 PM
  # 307 (permalink)  
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Hi HT

I could ask the same about your post right here you have repeated several times, but I will be more proactive and answer you.

The entire AA program is based on repeating messages and what I comment on is 100% related to Atheists in AA and is not bashing. I remind you that the reading material that I focus on is the only literature allowed in most AA meetings so my choice of subjects on Atheists in AA is rather limited. Barnes and Noble has shelves of material on recovery that is benefitial to all people in recovery and that would be a great place for a Atheist to go on nights when substandard mateiral is being read at their meetings.

There is no need for you to answer me either or better yet give a suggestion on a a topic about Atheists in AA and AA teachings!

AB


Originally Posted by historyteach View Post
So, I repeat....
AA is not nice to atheists. We've heard it.
What else do you want to add? How many times do you want to repeat the same thing?
We've HEARD it.

Continuing to repeat the same thing is not only boring, it's bashing.

Take what you need, and leave the rest is indeed a choice you have.
And I honestly do wish you peace...

Shalom!
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Old 02-06-2007, 01:01 AM
  # 308 (permalink)  
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This thread has gone off the topic of the original poster who just wanted advice about attending her first meeting on the day she posted. That was in July of last year. I think the thread has answered her questions and we can move on now.
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