Athiests in AA??
I recently returned from a one year deployment in Iraq. Being in harms way did not change, at all, any of the reasons behind why I am an atheist. Seeing the similarities in what some Iraqis want to do with their country, (in terms of setting up a religious state) and what fundamentalists want to do here in America, I am convinced that religion will always be an impediment to world peace.
The topic of the thread is atheists in AA.
Please let's not get into a flaming war about belief in G*D or the lack thereof; foxhole or not. We either do, or we do not have a belief. It's very unlikely that we will change someone else's mind.
But, the issue in AA is something that many people have to deal with while trying to get sober. How else can a person without other options, like SMART, or Lifering.... achieve sobriety?
Shalom!
Please let's not get into a flaming war about belief in G*D or the lack thereof; foxhole or not. We either do, or we do not have a belief. It's very unlikely that we will change someone else's mind.
But, the issue in AA is something that many people have to deal with while trying to get sober. How else can a person without other options, like SMART, or Lifering.... achieve sobriety?
Shalom!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 97
Hi Teach
I feel that everyone has the right to believe in something or not to believe and God Talk has never bothered me in the slightest at meetings. What bothers me at meetings are AA/BB statements that lead people to believe that without a HP you will fail or statements like:
" ......Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves..........."
I have seen a ton of people talk the talk and walk the HP/AA walk and relapse over and over. I can not say they all followed the suggestions, but all it takes is for 1/4 are more who are truly working the program to fail to disprove this BB claim.
AB
I feel that everyone has the right to believe in something or not to believe and God Talk has never bothered me in the slightest at meetings. What bothers me at meetings are AA/BB statements that lead people to believe that without a HP you will fail or statements like:
" ......Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves..........."
I have seen a ton of people talk the talk and walk the HP/AA walk and relapse over and over. I can not say they all followed the suggestions, but all it takes is for 1/4 are more who are truly working the program to fail to disprove this BB claim.
AB
The topic of the thread is atheists in AA.
Please let's not get into a flaming war about belief in G*D or the lack thereof; foxhole or not. We either do, or we do not have a belief. It's very unlikely that we will change someone else's mind.
But, the issue in AA is something that many people have to deal with while trying to get sober. How else can a person without other options, like SMART, or Lifering.... achieve sobriety?
Shalom!
Please let's not get into a flaming war about belief in G*D or the lack thereof; foxhole or not. We either do, or we do not have a belief. It's very unlikely that we will change someone else's mind.
But, the issue in AA is something that many people have to deal with while trying to get sober. How else can a person without other options, like SMART, or Lifering.... achieve sobriety?
Shalom!
Hi Teach
I feel that everyone has the right to believe in something or not to believe and God Talk has never bothered me in the slightest at meetings. What bothers me at meetings are AA/BB statements that lead people to believe that without a HP you will fail or statements like:
" ......Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves..........."
I have seen a ton of people talk the talk and walk the HP/AA walk and relapse over and over. I can not say they all followed the suggestions, but all it takes is for 1/4 are more who are truly working the program to fail to disprove this BB claim.
AB
I feel that everyone has the right to believe in something or not to believe and God Talk has never bothered me in the slightest at meetings. What bothers me at meetings are AA/BB statements that lead people to believe that without a HP you will fail or statements like:
" ......Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves..........."
I have seen a ton of people talk the talk and walk the HP/AA walk and relapse over and over. I can not say they all followed the suggestions, but all it takes is for 1/4 are more who are truly working the program to fail to disprove this BB claim.
AB
I agree with all of that, AB, but Teach was referring to the inflammatory post about there being no atheists in combat, and my subsequent posts shedding some light on that myth.
I've got a lot of sympathy and respect for veterans. I've got a lot of sympathy and respect for people of religion. But what you've experienced doesn't give you any special insight except to yourself John. You don't know what other people have suffered on their own personal battlefields.
Hi Teach
I feel that everyone has the right to believe in something or not to believe and God Talk has never bothered me in the slightest at meetings. What bothers me at meetings are AA/BB statements that lead people to believe that without a HP you will fail or statements like:
" ......Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves..........."
I have seen a ton of people talk the talk and walk the HP/AA walk and relapse over and over. I can not say they all followed the suggestions, but all it takes is for 1/4 are more who are truly working the program to fail to disprove this BB claim.
AB
I feel that everyone has the right to believe in something or not to believe and God Talk has never bothered me in the slightest at meetings. What bothers me at meetings are AA/BB statements that lead people to believe that without a HP you will fail or statements like:
" ......Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves..........."
I have seen a ton of people talk the talk and walk the HP/AA walk and relapse over and over. I can not say they all followed the suggestions, but all it takes is for 1/4 are more who are truly working the program to fail to disprove this BB claim.
AB
I also believe that it is irresponsible to give myself over to any program 100 percent. I believe we have free will for a reason. That does not make me incapable of being honest with myself, just the opposite in fact.
I posted a comment, that now I regret. While what I said was in fact true, the spirit in which it was said was confrontational. To all who were offended, please accept my sincere apology. Im an addict. Im flawed, Im sorry
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Round Rock, Texas
Posts: 9
Can you tell me where I might find this content in the BB, we were discussing it in my group session tonight.
[QUOTE=Abbadun;1172963]Hi Sugah
The BB has a dated but positive message to Women and regardless of what era of the BB message to Atheists, it is negative. Starting with the inevitable Alcoholic death Atheist will experience to how low the Founders found the the nature and character of Atheists to be.
[QUOTE=Abbadun;1172963]Hi Sugah
The BB has a dated but positive message to Women and regardless of what era of the BB message to Atheists, it is negative. Starting with the inevitable Alcoholic death Atheist will experience to how low the Founders found the the nature and character of Atheists to be.
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,612
"Unless each A.A. member follows to the best of his ability our suggested Twelve Steps to recovery, he almost certainly signs his own death warrant."
Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, William G. Wilson, page 174.
"At the moment we are trying to put our lives in order. But this is not an end in itself. Our real purpose is to fit ourselves to be of maximum service to God..."
The Big Book, William G. Wilson, page 77.
Hey, I just want to recover from alcoholism. It sounds like my prospective recovery is going to be fraught with danger as an atheist. Not very encouraging to me!
Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, William G. Wilson, page 174.
"At the moment we are trying to put our lives in order. But this is not an end in itself. Our real purpose is to fit ourselves to be of maximum service to God..."
The Big Book, William G. Wilson, page 77.
Hey, I just want to recover from alcoholism. It sounds like my prospective recovery is going to be fraught with danger as an atheist. Not very encouraging to me!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 97
Hi
First paragraph of "How It Works" Chapter 5
[QUOTE=mowhawk2;1180152]Can you tell me where I might find this content in the BB, we were discussing it in my group session tonight.
First paragraph of "How It Works" Chapter 5
[QUOTE=mowhawk2;1180152]Can you tell me where I might find this content in the BB, we were discussing it in my group session tonight.
Hi Sugah
The BB has a dated but positive message to Women and regardless of what era of the BB message to Atheists, it is negative. Starting with the inevitable Alcoholic death Atheist will experience to how low the Founders found the the nature and character of Atheists to be.
The BB has a dated but positive message to Women and regardless of what era of the BB message to Atheists, it is negative. Starting with the inevitable Alcoholic death Atheist will experience to how low the Founders found the the nature and character of Atheists to be.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 97
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