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Old 07-25-2006, 03:01 AM
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Harvard Speaks

I found the below interesting (its now very famous) - especially about the role of a spouse:

On their own
There is a high rate of recovery among alcoholics and addicts, treated and untreated. According to one estimate, heroin addicts break the habit in an average of 11 years. Another estimate is that at least 50% of alcoholics eventually free themselves although only 10% are ever treated. One recent study found that 80% of all alcoholics who recover for a year or more do so on their own, some after being unsuccessfully treated. When a group of these self-treated alcoholics was interviewed, 57% said they simply decided that alcohol was bad for them. Twenty-nine percent said health problems, frightening experiences, accidents, or blackouts persuaded them to quit. Others used such phrases as "Things were building up" or "I was sick and tired of it." Support from a husband or wife was important in sustaining the resolution.
Treatment of Drug Abuse and Addiction -- Part III, The Harvard Mental Health Letter, Volume 12, Number 4, October 1995, page 3.
(See Aug. (Part I), Sept. (Part II), Oct. 1995 (Part III).)
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Old 07-25-2006, 03:29 AM
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break the habit
But how many of them find recovery?

Stopping is one thing, finding a sober way of life is another.
For many, because of poor role models or lack of understanding, we just didn't know what the better way was.
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Old 07-25-2006, 04:08 AM
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I find support invaluable once I have decided on a course of action. If I haven't decided, "support" is irritating at best.

I would never, ever argue against supporting someone who has made the decision to make any change in their life and is committed to that change. I have big issues with trying to get someone to make that decision in the first place. Quite frankly, I have not found a way to do that and it is detrimental to ME to attempt it.
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Old 07-25-2006, 04:13 AM
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I understand that minnie - very true.
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Old 07-25-2006, 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by minnie
I find support invaluable once I have decided on a course of action. If I haven't decided, "support" is irritating at best.

I would never, ever argue against supporting someone who has made the decision to make any change in their life and is committed to that change. I have big issues with trying to get someone to make that decision in the first place. Quite frankly, I have not found a way to do that and it is detrimental to ME to attempt it.

Minnie - my issue is that the skills to do it without causing harm to self are availabe they just aren't easily accessible. I've referenced it before and will do again but there's plenty of evidence to suggest that SO's SUPPORTED in HOW they suggest initial actions can and DO make a meassurable difference.

In my case it wasn't me that played that first role, it was D's grandfather and mother - but they did make a difference even though that difference began PRIOR to him deciding for himself. In fact D maintains that even my 100% failed attempted to will him to live more than 10 years ago made a difference, he knew what someone who he wasn't related to thought he was worth, and he knew without change that someone wouldn't get closer.

I'll hunt down the NIAAA CRAFT paper which outlines some of this. There are books that can help those wanting to help to REALLY help.

That we are powerless is s myth long overdue for busting!!
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Old 07-25-2006, 04:27 AM
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NIAAA report on CRAFT. Basically on the effectiveness of persausion AND support.

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publicatio...-2/116-121.pdf
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Old 07-25-2006, 04:48 AM
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I understand what you're saying, Eq. And I have no doubt that the cumulative effect of the words and actions from me and the other women R has been involved in will one day take effect.

I guess I felt my life was too short to wait for that to happen.
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Old 07-25-2006, 05:04 AM
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I guess I felt my life was too short to wait for that to happen.
I made the same decision ten years ago with no regret. (NO - I'm not suggesting any future with you and R, I'm talking about our own decisions only!!).

My issue is that this isn't new research, it took me a year or so to find it but it isn't new, nor is it weak or unsupported NIAAA are a HUGE organisation to give it this level of backing. So WHY did I enter the 'recovery' enviroment and have to struggle quite so much to have my decision to want to help respected? And WHY were there people who not only knew it's value but knew how to support me through it in a way that helped not hurt me, ignored in their own organisation?

Why did our doctors consistantly aim to keep me involved while not having the resources to adequately support me being involved?

That's what I mean about the myth that needs busting - until those who have made the choice to help are equally respected and heard the voices asking for change will disappear. That's sad considering the benefits to be gained and what's at risk.
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Old 07-25-2006, 11:02 AM
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Am I right in thinking that this approach is for those who have already made a decision, however small, to address their behaviour?

Ok, I've looked at a report of the Unmotivated trial http://www.counselormagazine.com/dis...jun04CRAFT.htm

Is 130 a large enough sample size for it to be statistically significant, just out of interest? The problem I have whenever I read any of this stuff is that the themes are so similar across different approaches. CRAFT emphasises not rewarding drinking behaviour, which is actually referred to as "enabling" in your first article. I think I might have seen that term before somewhere....

I am no al-anon apologist - I rarely go to meetings now. And I wholeheartedly support your view that 12 step alternatives (i.e. secular) should be more widely known, whichever end of the spectrum one is situated.

I just see so many of the similarities these days, rather than differences.
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Old 07-25-2006, 11:34 AM
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Equus;
I just downloaded the article on CRA, after skimming it online.
(I need a hard copy to really read something long, ya know?)
Anyway, I look forward to reading it and sharing ideas about it. Certainly an excellent source of information!

Shalom!
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Old 07-25-2006, 11:54 AM
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Am I right in thinking that this approach is for those who have already made a decision, however small, to address their behaviour?
I believe the approach covers both after someone is addressing their behaviour and before. What we experienced working together through counselling was done after D had gone for help - obviously, therefore I can't talk personally.

However I have 2 stories not 1 with D - now and ten years ago. Ten years ago you'd be pushed to meet anyone less interested in getting better - yet he remembered much of what I said and despite our parting for almost a decade came to look for me - SOBER! In the light of events it seems more credible to me that what he heard BEFORE his own decision was still worth something than to say it wasn't.

I just see so many of the similarities these days, rather than differences.
I think the similarities are often behavioural even when that isn't intended. For example detaching from another's behaviour and the behavioural model of extinction are almost identicle. CRA - or CRAFT when family therapy is added on goes one step further, it talks about how to encourage and develop the positives - in a sense it shifts the focus from negative to positive in how someone else behaves.

I just downloaded the article on CRA, after skimming it online.
HT - There's a book that is based on CRAFT if you want it I'll give you the reference.

Last of all for me it's about genuiness - I don't want to get into 'fake it till you make it', my core values matter to much to be sacrificed. Learning about ways my behaviour reflects what I genuinely want (to give respect, to help, to be ONE person inside and out) helps me to bring in line, my heart, my words and my actions. There's nothing underhand - it ain't like I didn't say from the start (10 years ago) 'I want you away from booze'.

D knew, I knew what the purpose was of our distinctly odd counselling - while we gave each other tasks like putting shoes away, we had been told it was about rewarding each other, being positive and creating change.
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