Don W

I am sorry that because of people like me you had to start a new board. There was a time on SR that I only needed to be me. There was a time when I could speak from my heart without question. Many of you talk about a perfect world. You have excluded us that had no choice. Don.W would never kill anyone. However, I spent 2 years in Vietnam. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't picture either having to kill someone or helping to kill someone. One of the resons that I'm a patiet at the V A Hospital is as follows. I helped load the napalm bombs. I still live with the picture of that little girl running down the road with her clothes and skin burnt of by napalm.
When I came to SR, I found people that didn't judge me for what I was, but the person that I am. I am sorry, and maybe I'm wrong. However, I feel that this new board was developed so that you don't have to deal with me. Maybe I'm wrong but, me feeling is that we have a common enemy alcohol. Today, as other Veterans I struggle. However, I'm sorry that because I'm me, you've chosen to not deal or help me. Maybe it's best not to be here anymore. I can't help being me. I won't bother you anymore. I don't want to be responsibe for your drinking. Again, I guess I was wrong, belonging to SR, I thought I had to only be me, not belong.

best

Don

This forum is an addition, not a replacement. It has been added for all not because of any one person.

If we were to add a board for any one person or situation, the best idea I can think of would be a board for vets because only other vets can truly understand what a vet deals with in life.

You are a very important part of SR and I am sorry you feel the way you do.
I don't know a one who would like to see you go. You have brought much and added much here.

paulmh

I haven't been coming to SR for long but I've benefitted from the things you've written. You should be aware of that. You should be aware that you help to keep people like me sober, even if we don't say it.

I understand the desire that secularists have to have a place where there is less AA and religious influence. I was very anti-AA before, like you say, I realised I had no choices left about how I got sober. It seems that some people do have those choices, and good luck to them. I'll hang around here because secularists who think AA is simply religious don't understand AA. And if any of them are like me or like you, one day they'll need it.

Setting up a board like this is done with the intention of helping some people, not to get at others. Honesty is a common currency in recovery, isn't it?

Today I'm keeping it simple.

Don W

I'm sorry but, I feel hurt. I can't help how i feel, anymore than I can help being me. This board came about after some pretty mean things were said on other boards. Just go back and review the thread, why can't we have---. It was plain to me, that this person hated me. This board may have been created with good intensions, but it wasn't created until fritolay, expressed his hate for people like me.

Don W

Paulmh, Maybe that is my weakness. Today, I have problems being anti anything or anyone. However, I feel in my heart that because of this I have advanced. I guess I still have too thin skin. I like fritonlay and others that have a different view. Because of this mean statements hurt, I know, I'm living in a dream world. My dream world pictures us enjoying each other being me or them. I guess this might be one of the down side of recovery, picturing everyone together.

best

*paraphrased*
And Jesus said...don't be shocked when they say things unto you and remember that when they reject you, it is me they are rejecting not you.

Morning Glory

Hey Don.

I created this forum and you know how much I care about you. I would never create a forum with the intentions of hurting you. There have been many requests for an alternative forum. It was not that thread that lead me to create this forum. It was other threads from the past. We tried an alternative forum before and it didn't work. Having a secular forum was a new idea with the intentions of creating a place for all our recovery programs that had a secular view of recovery. That includes 12 step groups. It doesn't exclude anyone. Our secular members have grown in number and I felt there was a need for this forum. It was the same with the spirituality forum. No difference.

Hugs,
MG

paulmh

YOu and Best can correct me if I'm wrong, but don't we now understand that we are self-centred souls who understand the world only as it relates to us? And don't we now understand that our inflated egos are what make us vulnerable and sensitive to the opinions of others, and that in that sensitivity lies a drink for us?

You know we can't control the world. You know that when we allow ourselves to be hurt becuase the world doesn't give us what we think we should get, only we notice. You know that that is the alcoholics way, to feel more the ***** of one person's disapproval rather than the love of hundreds? You better believe that that's me, and I only maintain a balance when I remember - resentments are taken, not given.

paulmh

Oooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhh right, it's a board for secular recovery programmes, not just for secularists generally?

How come they keep talking about God then?

I'll get me coat....

Morning Glory

I don't know what you mean by that Paul.

Don W

Best, you might think it wrong but it is how I feel. Just like you expect I should expect it of others view, so should they of mine. Hurtful things said hurt regardless. You and others might have good intentions. However, the fact is that this board evolved from hateful things said on fritolays thread. Go back and read them. How can I not feel hurt. Sorry, but nobody can take back the mean things fritolay said. He put them out, sorry they hurt me. Did you think this board was going to be without controversy? Many thouht little of causing it on other boards that didn't conform to their beliefs. Most of this is a mute point as far as I'm concerned. People like fretolay have decided to change the direction of the inten of this board. I used to believe it was directed towards sobriety. Now it is directed toward individual beliefs. Simply put, belive what someone thinks or be attacted. Sober recovery used to be a safe haven. As you said, I don't think Jesus meant that we should hurt others. Today, you have chosen to hurt me, today I am chosing to no longer seek help here, fore help is no longer here. Today, I'm resigning my membership in SR. It can now be guided not by hope but by fritolay. Goodby SR. I'll try to remember you as you were. Good by best, congragulations. You and frito lay have won in my book. Just hope your still here 6 years from now like I've been.

Don W

I'll make it even more simple for everyone. You no longer have to deal with my feeling and thoughts. It is clear to me that they offend many. Morning Glory, I don't question your decision to start this board. i only question thos that chose to hurt others in fritolays thread. And I quote," I wish we could have a board all our own, so that we don't have tp put up with the AA cult."
Well, hope you stay sober without me, and I don't cosider myself a cult member. I'm only a sober Vietnam Veteran.

paulmh

Sorry MG, I was being flippant.

Still finding my feet.

Secular recovery means something quite specific it seems, which I didn't realise.

Don, I'm just editing this to respond to you too. I trust you didn't take my post as an attempt to criticise. There's obviously a lot of history to this issue that I know nothing about so perhaps its best if I just stay silent.

Morning Glory

I see I worded that wrong. This forum is a fourm for all members with a secular view point in any recovery program.

Autumn

(((Don))).....

I understand how you feel. Sometimes I feel like there's certain forums where I don't belong either, like the Men's Forum. Boy, I'd like to give you guys an earful, lol!

Seriously though Don, sometimes I feel uncomfortable expressing legitimate concerns about AA, since I do attend with my SO who still actively drinks. Questions for myself and for him. But I'm not a "member", so I feel like I don't belong in that forum.

I finally decided that AA isn't for me - hard as I tried to fit in. This, however, has everything to do with the program and very little to do with its members. Never can I forget the love and guidance you all have shown me (*yourself included*).

You are a very important part of SR Don, and I hope to see you read and post in this forum, perhaps to expand your horizons and maybe pick up on some different techniques to help you in your sobriety. Sometimes, those with different viewpoints can help us to see things at a different angle we may have not otherwise considered.

I hope you feel better soon.

Morning Glory

Don. I know you are hurt and I don't think your feelings are wrong, but I hope you remember how those PTSD shame attacks overwhelm us and make things much bigger than they really are. It is my experience that you are having a shame attack when you link a present situation in with your guilt from vietnam. You are feeling the emotions of all of it. Not just this one incident with another member's hurtful remarks.

Don W

I've ecided to add. Seeing how attcking other programs is in style here. I just went through a 30 day program at the Bedford Mass VA Hospital. Along with the AA Groups Smart Recovery puts on a program. They are so anti veteran that the VA dosen't require us to attend. I respect Don s but, he isn't like the person that puts on the program at the V A Hospital. Most Veterans hate him almost as much as Jane Fonda and John Kerry. Don S, are you sure your from the same group?

Don W

Paulmh, Sorry for mentioning God or myself, hope you feel better. I would also like you to go back to fritolays thread on alcohism. Please reread some of the mean things he and other said about people " Like Me". Afterwards that I feel hurt. Of course, when I returned from Vietnam, John Kerry and his friends called me a baby killer. I still remember walking down Merrimack Street in Lowell, Mass. in my uniform. Someone threw a coke can covering me with soda, calling me a baby killer. Come to think of it, it was my fault, some of you would think. I was only 19 years old, and although old enough to die for my country, not old enough to drink or vote.

best

Don I grew up in that time frame and I also had to listen to Kerry say pretty much the same stuff when my son was in Iraq as well.
I remember my brother comeing home on leaves back then and saying he is required to remain in uniform. I also remember him coming home once and saying he will rather get in trouble for being out of uniform then to put up with the crap.
He was in country in 71.

Blake

exactally.

I am secular, but I am also fully involved in NA. I feel as if I belong here.

Don, you are taking on other people's **** and making it your own. You have been through some rough **** and noone that wasn't there has a right to judge you or can fully understand where you are comming from. It's their ignorance and thier own low self esteem that drive them to judge and put down. All you have to do is take care of you and stop worring about how others feel about you and focus on how you feel about you. Do what you need to do to feel good about you. and **** anyone that can't respect that.


some of us are sick sick people....you don't have to take someone elses sickness to your heart and you don't have to be a victim anymore. You control your destiny.

I am an addict, just like you. I can understand that, and it makes us similar even though we have lead different lives. I love you and relate to that in you. We do recover.

I wish you peace,
Blake