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Old 07-02-2006, 07:57 AM
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I do not believe in a god, nor do I believe in an afterlife in the traditional sense. My view is that just as science says energy is never lost it just changes form, the same is true for life.

When we die our bodies are given back to the earth from which they came and eventually our molecules are absorbed into other living things (trees, grass, etc.). In terms of our "spirits", I have no concept of whether or not the essence that makes me who I am will go on or simply fade away. I do know that through my actions in life I will live on after my death in that I will have contributed to my community, taught and learned from those around me, left lasting impressions on some. In short, while my physical presence will be no more, I will live on through my interactions with others, my professional contributions, etc.

I do not fear death as it is just the final step in this life. There is no way around it. My goal while I am here is to make the world I live in a better place and to hopefully help the world become more than it currently is and to live my life as fully as I can without taking from or harming others. That's it.

Peace, Levi
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Old 07-02-2006, 05:00 PM
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Welcome to a socialist world my friend. 'Community' what a beautiful word.
My beleif system too is scientificaly based and it has brought my wife and I four years of clean time. My recovery comes from fact and not fantacy.
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Old 07-02-2006, 07:09 PM
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and what if you are wrong?

Just something more to think on.
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Old 07-02-2006, 07:13 PM
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What if death was just the beginning?
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Old 07-02-2006, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by best
and what if you are wrong?

Just something more to think on.
To which of the 22 prior posts was this directed?
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Old 07-02-2006, 07:58 PM
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I could make up any fictional version of ultimate reality and say "what if?" That doesn't make them plausible.
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Old 07-02-2006, 08:08 PM
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Plausible to whom? You, me, her, him? Who determines what is truth and what is fiction? Isn't how we believe and what a matter of perspective? I'm not trying to break ground here, just thinking out loud. I hope you don't mind. I come with an open mind...
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Old 07-02-2006, 10:04 PM
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Hey Autumn, im british! you think id be sweating over our lousy soccer team otherwise?! I cant believe what they put us through! lost on penalties! again! (clutches head with real pain). Im at art school in southern england studing photography. have masses of catching up to do overthe summer,its killing me. Sounds like you have lots of creative license with your cakes! I would have thought you would have had to stuck strictly to 'approved' recipes - what fun that you dont!

Best - I dont know, what if I am wrong? what if any of us are wrong? what if YOUR wrong? hey, we are all just feeling our way... : )
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Old 07-02-2006, 11:48 PM
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Haha, your post about the monument to yourself was quite funny to me.

I used to say that for my burial, I wanted all my assets used to buy a small piece of land (and pay the property taxes for 100 years, after which time I will be a local landmark), on which a very large statue of myself will be placed, preferably with my mummified body inside.

I also freely admit that so long as my grandious plans are acknowledged by my family and friends as genuine, they can do whatever they wish with my corpse as I won't know any better. So long as I remain convinced that my plan will be carried out, I can enjoy all the benefits of such a great monument-to-myself during my lifetime.
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Old 07-03-2006, 02:31 AM
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Originally Posted by clancy
Hey Autumn, im british! you think id be sweating over our lousy soccer team otherwise?!
Oh, you'd be surprised..... the States are full of soccer moms, some of which are very aggressive minivan drivers, lol.

I did see in another post that you're from the UK though. I don't know how I forgot, when I had already read the post once before. Hey Clancy, do you post at Smart?
Im at art school in southern england studing photography. have masses of catching up to do overthe summer,its killing me.
Oh, that really sounds lovely Clance..... photography is an old buried hobby of mine I miss very much. I have an old clunky SLR Minolta that takes gorgeous photos, and a pretty nice portfolio to complement it. So what do you plan to do with your education when you finish? Freelance? Photojournalism? Studio? Forensics? Lol..... always the morbid one, I am.

Sounds like you have lots of creative license with your cakes! I would have thought you would have had to stuck strictly to 'approved' recipes - what fun that you dont!
Well, I do, but I still get to play. I'm not one whit interested in cooking or baking, actually - never have been. I'm good at it, but it's like a duty..... at work or otherwise. The job is just a stepping stone is all, until I figure out how I want to further my education.
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Old 07-03-2006, 03:23 AM
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I have to say, I have been doing lots of reading/studying elsewhere on the Atheist philosophy, and it really has a beauty all its own - kind of primal in a way, and definitely celebratory of life on earth in all its forms. I am certainly coming away from this with a renewed appreciation for all the beauty and love life has to offer.

Still looking for more commentary from Atheists who have actually survived near-death experiences..... I'm curious to know if any of them begin to waver in what would have been their last moments, and how they overcame the psychological implications/impact.
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Old 07-03-2006, 03:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Don S
To which of the 22 prior posts was this directed?
All of them. My own thoughts included.
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Old 07-03-2006, 03:50 AM
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Levi.....

Thanks very much for sharing your thoughts on this topic. I always tend to seek out posts of like thinkers, and you're one.

I have to wonder though..... if we're embalmed and buried in a coffin encased in a cement sarcophagus, how are our molecules absorbed as energy for plants and trees? Unless of course we're cremated. Carbon, umm.... there must be some benefit to the earth from carbon (that is what "ashes" consist of, right?). I slept through that part in science class..... btw - you don't need to answer this, and I don't always need to be so literal. I get your drift.



Anyway Levi, I know you're up to big things in this lifetime, and you'll leave behind a considerable legacy as unique as you are, no doubt. Thanks for posting.

xo
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Old 07-03-2006, 04:32 AM
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Here we have Don S, who I give a silent thanks for every day at SR. His selfless contributions are absolutely priceless, and being that SR has a strong 12-step leaning, I'm all the more grateful he doesn't split like most others do. If people don't tell you enough Don, your input is so needed and appreciated here! Who are you, anyway? Lol.

And on the other hand we have Best, representative of who many consider the Ultimate Authority and practices love and tolerance in all of life's undertakings to the best of his ability.

Two knowledgeable men representative of their respective beliefs and methods of recovery - or changing one's behavior - intelligent as can be, and as respectful of one another's programs, least of whom I would expect to ruin my thread!!

I'll knock your heads together, lol! My gosh - we'd have to call for a flatbed.



Seriously though - Best, for this one particular topic I was really looking for comments from secularists. It's really why I'm in this forum. I'm looking for answers I haven't had much opportunity to receive from those on the other side of the fence, know what I mean?
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Old 07-03-2006, 04:55 AM
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I wonder if secularists - particularly Atheists - are more partial to discontinuing substance abuse due to an enhanced appreciation and respect for life and/or the belief that there is no afterlife? Or the questioning of one (as I do)?
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Old 07-03-2006, 05:28 AM
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Gosh I thought Best was a girl. Sorry Best. Isnt if funny how you make assumptions about people then get blown totally out ofthe water?

Yes I think Don is cool too.A voice of reason, cool and unruffled thats how he appears.

Autumn - Id love to be a press photographer - its my dream to be a witness to history being made, I collect classic photographs from the 20th century and books such as the 'Life' compilations. I love watching how news is interpretted through imagery. Lately I having doing alot of self portraiture/fine art phtography though and lookingat some very dark stuff such as violence against women. Not the kind of stuff people would buy, but have been compelled to do it, therapy maybe.

love clancxx
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Old 07-03-2006, 05:39 AM
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Speaking for myself, I really believe that my fear of death and questioning of an afterlife has a very strong influence and bearing on choices I am making with regard to my health and quality of life. I haven't yet started a vigorous exercise program and made strict dietary changes, but they're very soon in the works, as well as improving other general areas, such as stress management.

I wish I didn't fear death, the way an Atheist or Christian doesn't fear it. Their beliefs are absolutes. There must be a lot of comfort in that.
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Old 07-03-2006, 05:47 AM
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Hey, I dont think its actually healthy to have a totally rigid belief system autumn...I think it shows arrogance and bullishness not to be able to consider alternatives...and I also think everyone fears death no matter what they say..if you said to someonewho said they didnt fear death that they were going to die tommorow, they would almost certainly be afraid....its part of the human condition to fear death, it helps us stay alive! It sounds cool to say you dont fear death, but I dont really think that many folk can say that in ALL honesty. xxclanc
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Old 07-03-2006, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by clancy
Yes I think Don is cool too.A voice of reason, cool and unruffled thats how he appears.
One poster used to fondly refer to him as "Ice Man", lol.

Autumn - Id love to be a press photographer - its my dream to be a witness to history being made, I collect classic photographs from the 20th century and books such as the 'Life' compilations. I love watching how news is interpretted through imagery. Lately I having doing alot of self portraiture/fine art phtography though and lookingat some very dark stuff such as violence against women. Not the kind of stuff people would buy, but have been compelled to do it, therapy maybe.

love clancxx
That's good stuff, and sounds very therapeutic. I'd like to show my stuff to a psychologist sometime. I'm drawn toward filling the frame with texture and shadows. I'm also rather drawn to sordid subjects. I would really love to capture some real candid shots of some of the darker aspects of street life here in the city where I live.....
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Old 07-03-2006, 05:53 AM
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I mean, I think you can say in all honesty that you dont WORRY about death, but to say that you dont fear death at all....well we fear death for a reason, so we dont walk on the live rail, drink polluted water, step off a cliff...fearing death is healthy, it protects us, keeps us alive to nuture our young ect. xx
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