I Drank After 2 Years and Six Months: I’m in Despair
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The Coca-Cola Company was founded here last century. The vast majority of places that serve soft drinks choose Coke. And, colloquially, growing up the routine q & a was "Do you want a Coke" "Yes" "What kind?" "Sprite, please"
I am one of those who eschews places like Taco Bell and Pizza Hut first (among many reasons, ugh) because they serve Pepsi (w/o a google, I believe they are now owned by Pepsi Co, in fact).
I am one of those who eschews places like Taco Bell and Pizza Hut first (among many reasons, ugh) because they serve Pepsi (w/o a google, I believe they are now owned by Pepsi Co, in fact).
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Join Date: Oct 2015
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Thanks. In Europe and the world I guess (except for my step-son) 'coke' is the generic word and places that only serve Pepsi are supposed to ask if Pepsi's OK if you ask for a coke. I tend to ask 'Is Tesco's OK?' Tesco being a big supermarket here in the UK!
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Join Date: May 2018
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Hi Tatsy,
I have been reading your thread along with all the other AVRT threads which has inspired me. I am sorry that you felt bad, but it sounds like you are going to come back fighting and beat the IT into submission
All the best x
I have been reading your thread along with all the other AVRT threads which has inspired me. I am sorry that you felt bad, but it sounds like you are going to come back fighting and beat the IT into submission
All the best x
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Join Date: Feb 2016
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Nightshade 🤗 thank you for your kind words. I have indeed come back fighting. That’s what it took at first, to raise huge anger towards my adverse predicament and say “dammit, I won’t let these circumstances beat me into the ground anymore” and “dam the Booze-Beast IT and ITs’ AV....I’m not ITs’ slave and I shall not listen to IT and ITs’ siren calls for booze anymore.
How are you doing Nightshade?
How are you doing Nightshade?
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Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 115
Not too bad, been on here most of today Tatsy. I really like the sound of AVRT, simple and concise. Day 2 is almost over now and I have been say my BP throughout the day and going back to the crash course.
The way you put it of 'raising the anger against IT and not be beaten is great - normally I feel angry at people who call me out for drinking or angry at myself. It great to re-direct it at the root cause!
The way you put it of 'raising the anger against IT and not be beaten is great - normally I feel angry at people who call me out for drinking or angry at myself. It great to re-direct it at the root cause!
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Hi Nightshade, how is Day 3 progressing? Have you managed to start reading the Annie Grace book, whilst you await delivery of the AVRT book? Annie Grace has a 30 day Sobriety Class, which I think is still free; which feeds daily email content to include videos and reading materials, plus a forum.
I found it informative regarding the nature of addiction and reframing, subconsciously, the so called ‘reasons’ why I drank, sub-consciously; to include facts regarding alcohol and it’s indoctrinisation socially, and glamorisation in the media.
I found it informative regarding the nature of addiction and reframing, subconsciously, the so called ‘reasons’ why I drank, sub-consciously; to include facts regarding alcohol and it’s indoctrinisation socially, and glamorisation in the media.
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Join Date: May 2018
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Hi Tatsy, I just posted my day 3 in the other sub-section lol!
I have ordered the book - I saw quite a few thing on YT about The Naked Mind (also 'browsed' them while debating getting sober) Anything specific you recommend? Preferably some short - like a starter, before the main (the books lol) Would love to know your faves, maybe PM me
I have ordered the book - I saw quite a few thing on YT about The Naked Mind (also 'browsed' them while debating getting sober) Anything specific you recommend? Preferably some short - like a starter, before the main (the books lol) Would love to know your faves, maybe PM me
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Thank you nightshade 🤗.
I’m leaning into discomfort, which is a Buddhist concept an SR member recommended recently. It’s also mentioned in the book I’ve just read;
“The most powerful emotions that we experience have very sharp points, like the tip of a thorn. When they ***** us, they cause discomfort and even pain. Just the anticipation or fear of these feelings can trigger intolerable vulnerability in us. We know it’s coming. For many of us, our first response to vulnerability and pain of these sharp points is not to lean into the discomfort and feel our way through but rather to make it go away. We do that by numbing and taking the edge off the pain with whatever provides the quickest relief. We can anesthetize with a whole bunch of stuff, including alcohol, drugs, food, sex, relationships, money, work, caretaking, gambling, staying busy, affairs, chaos, shopping, planning, perfectionism, constant change, and the Internet.”. Brene Brown, The Gifts of Imperfection.
I’ve realsed I’d become trapped in a pit of emotions (fear, anger, self blame, shame, resentment, regret, despondency, helplessness). My primordial brain’s ‘auto-pilot’ responses where in hyper-drive mode: flight, freeze and fight. Unfortunately the fight component, was aimed at myself, I knew how to climb out of the pit, but I was resistant due to fear; then frozen into inaction, followed by flight from my Authentic, brave self. Round and round the emotions and responses swirled, in self-feeding, ever constricting circles.
My escape from the fear-pit, requires my leaning into the uncomfortable feelings. So that’s we’re I’m at. Leaning in and taking action, no matter how futile it feels.
I’m leaning into discomfort, which is a Buddhist concept an SR member recommended recently. It’s also mentioned in the book I’ve just read;
“The most powerful emotions that we experience have very sharp points, like the tip of a thorn. When they ***** us, they cause discomfort and even pain. Just the anticipation or fear of these feelings can trigger intolerable vulnerability in us. We know it’s coming. For many of us, our first response to vulnerability and pain of these sharp points is not to lean into the discomfort and feel our way through but rather to make it go away. We do that by numbing and taking the edge off the pain with whatever provides the quickest relief. We can anesthetize with a whole bunch of stuff, including alcohol, drugs, food, sex, relationships, money, work, caretaking, gambling, staying busy, affairs, chaos, shopping, planning, perfectionism, constant change, and the Internet.”. Brene Brown, The Gifts of Imperfection.
I’ve realsed I’d become trapped in a pit of emotions (fear, anger, self blame, shame, resentment, regret, despondency, helplessness). My primordial brain’s ‘auto-pilot’ responses where in hyper-drive mode: flight, freeze and fight. Unfortunately the fight component, was aimed at myself, I knew how to climb out of the pit, but I was resistant due to fear; then frozen into inaction, followed by flight from my Authentic, brave self. Round and round the emotions and responses swirled, in self-feeding, ever constricting circles.
My escape from the fear-pit, requires my leaning into the uncomfortable feelings. So that’s we’re I’m at. Leaning in and taking action, no matter how futile it feels.
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Tatsy. your talking about leaning into uncomfortable feelings and the risks of what may happen if you don't reminds me of something I read in "Into the Silent Land" by Martin Laird. This was something he wrote about a woman, who he called Laura (to protect her real name) who lived in a monastery and the feeling she refused to meet was fear.
The story's essentially this. One day she was forced to meet fear. She had a run-in with another nun and this lead to a life-changing event. They had a public disagreement over one of their community policies and Laura became the recipient of a one-sided verbal punch up. She had always been afraid of "that woman" as she began to name her but after this experience fear began to dominate her life. Fear "jumped behind the wheel of the car", Laird put it.
Because it was a monastery, Laura knew "that woman's" movements at any time - which stairs and when she would come down to chapel for example. They had a custom of processing two-by-two into the chapel for prayers and Laura learned how with a change of pace she could avoid pairing up with that woman. So she learned to cope with fear by avoiding that woman and this went on for a couple of years.
Laird says that while this strategy of managing fear is understandable what Laura didn't know was that this was also a subtle way of indulging fear and it actually makes it grow. She was telling herself a story about her fear and then activity it out and this increases its momentum and grip.
Her fear grew and it wasn't only about avoiding that woman. She began to fear that the community was going to get rid of her and leave her penniless for example and when one day she refused to come out from under her bed the superior of the order suggested counseling might be in order.
With this, Laura learnt to confront fear. She learned some basic skills in confrontation: not how to confront that woman, nor the situations that frightened her, but how to confront fear itself, and by doing so how to receive its gift.
Before her counseling, she felt completely caught up in fear, either victimised by it or acting out of it. She learned how to distinguish between the object of fear, that woman, and the fear itself. Her counselor hoped that she would learn that there was more to herself than the fear, that there was something within her that was not afraid. She named the fear whenever she experienced it and actually kept a journal to track it. She learned gradually to distinguish herself from fear and so not to be afraid of fear.
Laird observes that this practice that Laura learned is contemplation. Naming an afflictive thought or feeling in the sense of identifying it as fear, anger, envy, pride and so on helps us to disentangle ourselves from the afflictive thought or emotion without denying or repressing it and without acting out.
He concludes that that part of us that is aware of the afflictive emotion, that is aware of clinging to or fleeing from it, is itself free of the affliction, free of the clinging and free of the fleeing.
The story's essentially this. One day she was forced to meet fear. She had a run-in with another nun and this lead to a life-changing event. They had a public disagreement over one of their community policies and Laura became the recipient of a one-sided verbal punch up. She had always been afraid of "that woman" as she began to name her but after this experience fear began to dominate her life. Fear "jumped behind the wheel of the car", Laird put it.
Because it was a monastery, Laura knew "that woman's" movements at any time - which stairs and when she would come down to chapel for example. They had a custom of processing two-by-two into the chapel for prayers and Laura learned how with a change of pace she could avoid pairing up with that woman. So she learned to cope with fear by avoiding that woman and this went on for a couple of years.
Laird says that while this strategy of managing fear is understandable what Laura didn't know was that this was also a subtle way of indulging fear and it actually makes it grow. She was telling herself a story about her fear and then activity it out and this increases its momentum and grip.
Her fear grew and it wasn't only about avoiding that woman. She began to fear that the community was going to get rid of her and leave her penniless for example and when one day she refused to come out from under her bed the superior of the order suggested counseling might be in order.
With this, Laura learnt to confront fear. She learned some basic skills in confrontation: not how to confront that woman, nor the situations that frightened her, but how to confront fear itself, and by doing so how to receive its gift.
Before her counseling, she felt completely caught up in fear, either victimised by it or acting out of it. She learned how to distinguish between the object of fear, that woman, and the fear itself. Her counselor hoped that she would learn that there was more to herself than the fear, that there was something within her that was not afraid. She named the fear whenever she experienced it and actually kept a journal to track it. She learned gradually to distinguish herself from fear and so not to be afraid of fear.
Laird observes that this practice that Laura learned is contemplation. Naming an afflictive thought or feeling in the sense of identifying it as fear, anger, envy, pride and so on helps us to disentangle ourselves from the afflictive thought or emotion without denying or repressing it and without acting out.
He concludes that that part of us that is aware of the afflictive emotion, that is aware of clinging to or fleeing from it, is itself free of the affliction, free of the clinging and free of the fleeing.
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Brene Brown is fantastic. Her works resonate with me in so many ways. Y'all probably know this but she passed 23 yrs sober earlier this year. Her most recent Netflix special is impressive to me in many ways, particularly because she never once uses the words sober, recovery, etc, but if you know this about her then you can see how her worldview is shaped in a huge way.
"Daring Greatly" is probably my favorite book of hers- the whole concept of fear and courage, for being vulnerable....immense.
"Daring Greatly" is probably my favorite book of hers- the whole concept of fear and courage, for being vulnerable....immense.
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Originally Posted by AlericB 
Laura learnt to confront fear. iShe learned gradually to distinguish herself from fear and so not to be afraid of fear.
Laird observes that this practice that Laura learned is contemplation. Naming an afflictive thought or feeling in the sense of identifying it as fear, anger, envy, pride and so on helps us to disentangle ourselves from the afflictive thought or emotion without denying or repressing it and without acting out.
He concludes that that part of us that is aware of the afflictive emotion, that is aware of clinging to or fleeing from it, is itself free of the affliction, free of the clinging and free of the fleeing.
Laird observes that this practice that Laura learned is contemplation. Naming an afflictive thought or feeling in the sense of identifying it as fear, anger, envy, pride and so on helps us to disentangle ourselves from the afflictive thought or emotion without denying or repressing it and without acting out.
He concludes that that part of us that is aware of the afflictive emotion, that is aware of clinging to or fleeing from it, is itself free of the affliction, free of the clinging and free of the fleeing.
Martin Laird was right. I was running away from the fear, as was Laura running away from her feared Nun. Without realising the fear/affliction was not external, but internal. The fear was within mind and Laura’s power to separate from, and thereby overcome.
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Forgiveness?
I understand that forgiveness of others is a ‘gift I give myself’ whilst not ‘accepting/condoning’ what the others did.
But how? How do I unilaterally forgive people that have literally, purposely, malevolently schemed to harm me, for their own perverse ‘gains’, and my detriment? I’m eaten up by this emotionally. I’m stuck in a horrible negative mental loop, karmic justice, revenge etc., that probably won’t happen. That loop keeps me tied to them and there ever present in my mind, even in my dreams! It’s driving me mad.
I want a resolution, and I realise that’s achieved by forgiving and then forgetting, thereby being released and allowing me to mentally move forwards from the present stuckness. But how? I’ve tried the step recommendation, wishing them health and happiness etc. It worked years ago, on minor things, but these transgressions? No. Oh my!
But how? How do I unilaterally forgive people that have literally, purposely, malevolently schemed to harm me, for their own perverse ‘gains’, and my detriment? I’m eaten up by this emotionally. I’m stuck in a horrible negative mental loop, karmic justice, revenge etc., that probably won’t happen. That loop keeps me tied to them and there ever present in my mind, even in my dreams! It’s driving me mad.
I want a resolution, and I realise that’s achieved by forgiving and then forgetting, thereby being released and allowing me to mentally move forwards from the present stuckness. But how? I’ve tried the step recommendation, wishing them health and happiness etc. It worked years ago, on minor things, but these transgressions? No. Oh my!
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Tatsy, I had similar negative feelings towards my mother. You mention forgiving, then forgetting. I will never forget things that happened, because it's what has made me the person I am. But, I have forgiven. I got to a point where I simply had no more energy to put into recriminations and feeling bad. Forgiving is hard and for me it happened a little bit at a time. I had to work on it over and over again, getting a little closer each time.
Try to remember, it's something you are doing for yourself. It will help you and your recovery.
Try to remember, it's something you are doing for yourself. It will help you and your recovery.
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I got a lot from a book called The Shack - it's got Christian overtones so it may not be suitable for most in this forum but the excerpt on forgiveness has served me well ever since I read it
“Forgiveness is not about forgetting. It is about letting go of another person's throat......Forgiveness does not create a relationship. Unless people speak the truth about what they have done and change their mind and behavior, a relationship of trust is not possible. When you forgive someone you certainly release them from judgment, but without true change, no real relationship can be established.........Forgiveness in no way requires that you trust the one you forgive. But should they finally confess and repent, you will discover a miracle in your own heart that allows you to reach out and begin to build between you a bridge of reconciliation.........Forgiveness does not excuse anything.........You may have to declare your forgiveness a hundred times the first day and the second day, but the third day will be less and each day after, until one day you will realize that you have forgiven completely. And then one day you will pray for his wholeness......”
― William P. Young, The Shack
I often boil that down to 'you cant move on if you're hanging on to someone else's throat'.
“Forgiveness is not about forgetting. It is about letting go of another person's throat......Forgiveness does not create a relationship. Unless people speak the truth about what they have done and change their mind and behavior, a relationship of trust is not possible. When you forgive someone you certainly release them from judgment, but without true change, no real relationship can be established.........Forgiveness in no way requires that you trust the one you forgive. But should they finally confess and repent, you will discover a miracle in your own heart that allows you to reach out and begin to build between you a bridge of reconciliation.........Forgiveness does not excuse anything.........You may have to declare your forgiveness a hundred times the first day and the second day, but the third day will be less and each day after, until one day you will realize that you have forgiven completely. And then one day you will pray for his wholeness......”
― William P. Young, The Shack
I often boil that down to 'you cant move on if you're hanging on to someone else's throat'.
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