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I drank a liter of vodka over the weekend

Old 06-12-2018, 01:55 PM
  # 141 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by lessgravity View Post
DD - so much ambivalence here, though I like where the scales are tilting, concerned with the fact there is anything on the other side, weighing against sobriety.

The same lack of commitment is apparent in your post.
Commitment and ambivalence can coexist. It may be more difficult, true, but the concepts are not mutually exclusive.
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Old 06-12-2018, 02:03 PM
  # 142 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by GerandTwine View Post
Your back foot is in the air and has ALMOST followed you across the threshhold. To keep it from getting stuck there, freezing you there, you must include ALL drinking, not just drinking to oblivion.

“You’ve done good, DD, of course there’s no need for oblivion, too many problems. When the time comes, though, you’ll certainly be able to manage a little glass of wine or a beer, or maybe even one classy vodka martini on that special occasion when [insert an event here].”

But maybe that’s what you meant by “similar reprieve elsewhere”. Were you also excluding moderate drinking within your permanent abstinence? In that case, you’re through.

And a final congratulations!
I actually didn't consider moderate drinking, as permanent abstinence denotes the absence of light, moderate, and heavy drinking. So yes, it's included.
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Old 06-12-2018, 02:43 PM
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Are all intoxicants included?
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Old 06-12-2018, 03:21 PM
  # 144 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by daredevil View Post
Commitment and ambivalence can coexist. It may be more difficult, true, but the concepts are not mutually exclusive.
Commitment is what is needed though, anything inhibiting it must be limited if but eliminated.
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Old 06-12-2018, 04:05 PM
  # 145 (permalink)  
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Oh my goodness, Carlotta! You expressed EXACTLY my concept of emotional sobriety so eloquently. Thank you (and may I copy and paste and not violate your copyright? I would love to keep this for future notes to self ).

The tantrum thing- I have one that instantly replayed itself when you talked about that man - it was because I couldn't buy romaine lettuce in a partial bunch. I can still envision myself arguing with the produce guy first, stomping to the register and arguing with the self-checkout cashier that he COULD, duh, charge me something other than their price...and I can only guess what was an audience of stunned faces at my display.

And I have to remember not to get caught up in recovery terms, as DD points out- this particular phrase works perfectly for me (and for my husband who is also in recovery, and as a guide post for our relationship) as it just makes intuitive sense for being a good, decent, sane adult. Whatever you call it, I'd bottle and sell it if I could.
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Old 06-12-2018, 10:51 PM
  # 146 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by August252015 View Post
Oh my goodness, Carlotta! You expressed EXACTLY my concept of emotional sobriety so eloquently. Thank you (and may I copy and paste and not violate your copyright? I would love to keep this for future notes to self ).

The tantrum thing- I have one that instantly replayed itself when you talked about that man - it was because I couldn't buy romaine lettuce in a partial bunch. I can still envision myself arguing with the produce guy first, stomping to the register and arguing with the self-checkout cashier that he COULD, duh, charge me something other than their price...and I can only guess what was an audience of stunned faces at my display.

And I have to remember not to get caught up in recovery terms, as DD points out- this particular phrase works perfectly for me (and for my husband who is also in recovery, and as a guide post for our relationship) as it just makes intuitive sense for being a good, decent, sane adult. Whatever you call it, I'd bottle and sell it if I could.
Absolutely, copy and paste away
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Old 06-14-2018, 07:17 AM
  # 147 (permalink)  
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DD - where you at?
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Old 06-14-2018, 08:15 AM
  # 148 (permalink)  
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Daredevil, how are you today?
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Old 06-14-2018, 08:23 AM
  # 149 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by daredevil View Post
I actually didn't consider moderate drinking, as permanent abstinence denotes the absence of light, moderate, and heavy drinking. So yes, it's included.
This post confirmed to me that my earlier “final congratulations” to DD was appropriate. I believe DD has gone “through” recovery and is on the other side of it, unfettered by any need for future expenses (of time, money, association with struggling addicts, dubious self-imaging, etc.) to remain permanently abstinent.

In this forum labeled Secular Connections and the one next door labeled Permanent Abstinence it is considered the pinnacle of success when a person ends both their addiction AND their recovery. It’s a “graduation”, or a “quantum leap” OUT of a cyclical, rhythmic, deep pleasure appetite trap.

We are all familiar with huge segments of recovery itself which maintain that cyclical, rhythmic nature of appetite existence that is unnecessary, expensive, and for some people debilitating, for acheiving total abstinence.

I thank Sober Recovery for providing the Secular Connections and Permanent Abstinence forums offering information on how to use personal responsibility in making recovery an event preceded by ambivalence and followed by harmless residual desire.
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Old 06-14-2018, 09:28 AM
  # 150 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by GerandTwine View Post
This post confirmed to me that my earlier “final congratulations” to DD was appropriate. I believe DD has gone “through” recovery and is on the other side of it, unfettered by any need for future expenses (of time, money, association with struggling addicts, dubious self-imaging, etc.) to remain permanently abstinent.

In this forum labeled Secular Connections and the one next door labeled Permanent Abstinence it is considered the pinnacle of success when a person ends both their addiction AND their recovery. It’s a “graduation”, or a “quantum leap” OUT of a cyclical, rhythmic, deep pleasure appetite trap.

We are all familiar with huge segments of recovery itself which maintain that cyclical, rhythmic nature of appetite existence that is unnecessary, expensive, and for some people debilitating, for acheiving total abstinence.

I thank Sober Recovery for providing the Secular Connections and Permanent Abstinence forums offering information on how to use personal responsibility in making recovery an event preceded by ambivalence and followed by harmless residual desire.
You realized DD was drinking just a few days ago right?

Also I love Trippey's book but the way this post is written smacks of the same institutionalized language/doublespeak that turns me, and others, off to AA.
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Old 06-14-2018, 10:13 AM
  # 151 (permalink)  
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Oops posted in error
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Old 06-14-2018, 10:57 AM
  # 152 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by lessgravity View Post
Originally Posted by GerandTwine
This post confirmed to me that my earlier “final congratulations” to DD was appropriate. I believe DD has gone “through” recovery and is on the other side of it, unfettered by any need for future expenses (of time, money, association with struggling addicts, dubious self-imaging, etc.) to remain permanently abstinent.

In this forum labeled Secular Connections and the one next door labeled Permanent Abstinence it is considered the pinnacle of success when a person ends both their addiction AND their recovery. It’s a “graduation”, or a “quantum leap” OUT of a cyclical, rhythmic, deep pleasure appetite trap.

We are all familiar with huge segments of recovery itself which maintain that cyclical, rhythmic nature of appetite existence that is unnecessary, expensive, and for some people debilitating, for acheiving total abstinence.

I thank Sober Recovery for providing the Secular Connections and Permanent Abstinence forums offering information on how to use personal responsibility in making recovery an event preceded by ambivalence and followed by harmless residual desire.
You realized DD was drinking just a few days ago right?

Also I love Trippey's book but the way this post is written smacks of the same institutionalized language/doublespeak that turns me, and others, off to AA.
First:

I haven’t done any of “Trippey’s” book or its Addictive Voice Recognition Technique here for the last two weeks since daredevil posted “I know all about AVRT. I just don’t follow it.”

I do have knowledge of the last 200 years history of taking the pledge of permanent abstinence. I guess it’s possible to imagine that Rational Recovery has a monopoly on using the pledge (its Big Plan). Well, not so. The name of this forum is NOT just about Rational Recovery.

Second:

If I choose to take daredevil’s statements at face value, I have every right to do so. And I do it with my understanding of how people have recovered for centuries.

Stepping back to view recovery over a period that preceeds the modern era and its assumptions about recovery has nothing to do with institutionalized language and doublespeak. There is none of that in my post.

Third:

I hope that someday someone does a study of how often Jack Trimpey’s name is misspelled. I suspect it is more than just not wanting it to pop up in a name search. It would be a hard study to accomplish, but interesting to see the conclusions.
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Old 06-14-2018, 10:59 AM
  # 153 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by GerandTwine View Post
First:

I haven’t done any of “Trippey’s” book or its Addictive Voice Recognition Technique here for the last two weeks since daredevil posted “I know all about AVRT. I just don’t follow it.”

I do have knowledge of the last 200 years history of taking the pledge of permanent abstinence. I guess it’s possible to imagine that Rational Recovery has a monopoly on using the pledge (its Big Plan). Well, not so. The name of this forum is NOT just about Rational Recovery.

Second:

If I choose to take a daredevil’s statements at face value, I have every right to do so with my understanding of how people have recovered for centuries.

Stepping back to view recovery over a period that preceeds the modern era and its assumptions about recovery has nothing to do with institutionalized language and doublespeak. There is none of that in my post.

Third:

I hope that someday someone does a study of how often Jack Trimpey’s name is misspelled. I suspect it is more than just not wanting it to pop up in a name search. It would be a hard study to accomplish, but interesting.
Interesting!

Trimpey, Trippey, all the same.

I hope DD doesn't drink either.
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Old 06-14-2018, 11:29 AM
  # 154 (permalink)  
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Hkpe you’re OK DD.
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Old 06-14-2018, 11:36 AM
  # 155 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by lessgravity View Post
Interesting! ... I hope DD doesn't drink either.
I imagine lessgravity saying this with the background music of the
Also Sprach Zarathustra segment from the movie 2001; and at the same time looking at the cover of Trimpey’s book “Rational Recovery” wherein the butterfly is lifting and escaping from a massive metal chain sunk into a huge concrete block.

Yes, the power of addiction truly has less gravity than you might think.
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Old 06-14-2018, 11:39 AM
  # 156 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by GerandTwine View Post
I imagine lessgravity saying this with the background music of the
Also Sprach Zarathustra segment from the movie 2001; and at the same time looking at the cover of Trimpey’s book “Rational Recovery” wherein the butterfly is lifting and escaping from a massive metal chain sunk into a huge concrete block.

Yes, the power of addiction truly has less gravity than you might think.
I agree with you re: the power of addiction. I also very much hate the concept of a perpetual recovery - one of the many reasons AA turns me off.
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Old 06-14-2018, 12:00 PM
  # 157 (permalink)  
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Doing well lessgravity, Tatsy--thanks for asking.

Although I’m about a week removed from the past binge, I don’t feel the typical trepidation of impending relapse post-binge that I'm typically accustomed to.

I've actually gone to less meetings this past week (I thought I'd redouble my efforts), and I've been well served by this.
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Old 06-14-2018, 12:20 PM
  # 158 (permalink)  
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Daredevil, thank you for posting, I’m so pleased to read it! Whatever it takes, one thing, a combination of things, we’re all different.

Never thought I’d say that, but the greater the distance behind me and my stop date, I’m becoming less dogmatic. Says me, as she steps slighty off the AVRT soap box, LOL.
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Old 06-14-2018, 01:16 PM
  # 159 (permalink)  
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DD!

Great to hear. Keep it up.
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Old 06-14-2018, 02:19 PM
  # 160 (permalink)  
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Glad to see you on the sober bus DD.
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