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I drank a liter of vodka over the weekend

Old 08-20-2018, 11:20 AM
  # 241 (permalink)  
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Recognition ( identification) is the prerequisite step for separation.

Not picking your post apart to show someone 'doing it wrong', just my observation of your AV.

"I get that it's not my deprivation. It's the beast's deprivation. I don't feel deprived, like I once used to, so that's a positive step in the right direction.

At the moment, I'm depriving IT. "


A step in the right direction and at the moment imply alternatives and are present as a time biding tactic of the Beast.
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Old 08-20-2018, 01:15 PM
  # 242 (permalink)  
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Not picking your post apart to show someone 'doing it wrong', just my observation of your AV.

My last few posts had AV, especially the one GT comprehensively picked apart. But it's all good: the AV has - in the last few weeks - permeated my thinking and concealed itself unbeknownst to me, and I'm glad you both pointed out the flaw. I've been using non-drinker-status-subject-to rescission: the subject-to rescission suggests future drinking.

I'd be lying if the idea of knocking back a pint of vodka from time to time wasn't appealing; that thought consumed my mind all weekend, but I didn't indulge. Earlier you brought up the calamity clause, but there's the situation when things are going well, the consequences of drinking are firmly in the rear view mirror, and drinking is not only palatable, but desirable. That's the psychological hurdle I'm trying to get past.
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Old 08-20-2018, 04:22 PM
  # 243 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by daredevil View Post
No, less--I'm not [drinking] But I've always been more inclined to drink in the couple of weeks after a binge than thereafter.

That's what I meant.
You posted the above on June 5th.
It appears this tendency is history for you. So it's not getting easier after 5 weeks plus? Simple reason. The ultimate question in Addictive Voice Recognition Technique boils down to " What are your plans for the future use of alcohol?" If you cannot answer with the Big Plan that means you have set AVRT aside. The Big Plan will give you the mother of all "thereafter"s.
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Old 08-20-2018, 04:25 PM
  # 244 (permalink)  
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Recognition is the prerequisite step for the operative step of separation.

A BP is a self honest , conscious decision. Instantly implemented and nonrevocable. The ultimate self irrational choice to become or recovery one’s natural teetotaler state , come hell or high water, yeah?

From that perspective , being a quitter means choosing to never again drink and to never change your mind about that one choice.

From that point on, after making a BP , can it really be said that drinking would appeal to you the entity that pledges to yourself to never again pour booze down your throat?

Identifying , assigning any desire for more booze as an alien ego , or recognizing that desire as the expression of a rogue survival drive as opposed to eminating from your more rational better judgement based self is integral to the technique.

You say drinking thoughts intrusively bombarded you all weekend, and yet you didn’t indulge.

Imagine how freeing that would feel , if you said , and I didn’t indulge IT.

It’s more than a semantic difference through the lens of AVRT.
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Old 08-21-2018, 06:58 AM
  # 245 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by daredevil View Post

I'd be lying if the idea of knocking back a pint of vodka from time to time wasn't appealing; that thought consumed my mind all weekend, but I didn't indulge. Earlier you brought up the calamity clause, but there's the situation when things are going well, the consequences of drinking are firmly in the rear view mirror, and drinking is not only palatable, but desirable. That's the psychological hurdle I'm trying to get past.
For me the psychological means was through coming to the understanding/belief that by drinking I was divided against my self. Maybe I'm dumbing down the concepts - but I think of the self as the psyche and when I drank I sacrificed the desires/dreams/goals/intentions of my psyche. I lived divided against myself - which I think is perhaps the most painful way to live life. I've always been aware of, and envious of, people who I've come to think of as self-actualized. It used to bother me that people who were not examples of integrity could still walk around feeling good about themselves. I think now that's because regardless of what I thought about them, they lived in accordance with their "iron string" (as Emerson put it). Point is that they lived undivided.

I know the pangs and nostalgia that my AV sends my way here and then regarding booze. I see the frustration with not being able to drink with everyone at the beach house recently as my AV still lying and trying to deceive. Crucially though I truly believe that I am becoming undivided and that I am giving my self a chance at actualization by never drinking again. I know this in a way that's hard to describe. It's knowledge, not just an understanding.

Until you are able to truly realize that the part of you (call it whatever, AV etc) that wants to drink is divided against your true self/psyche, I think you will suffer from these bouts you describe as going through last weekend. Because it's one thing to have your AV sing it's ******** songs about the poison, it's quite another to have an inclination to join in the song.
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Old 08-21-2018, 09:00 AM
  # 246 (permalink)  
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Your line of thinking reminds me of a SMART exercise (Hierarchy of Values): aligning your values and beliefs with your behaviors so as to avoid cognitive dissonance. But three years ago, before drinking became a solitary and daily activity, I was just fine drinking once or twice a week to excess at my favorite establishment.

In other words, there was no divided self, so that argument leaves open the possibility for future drinking.

Seems to me that swearing it off forever is the only away to obviate the mental gymnastics endemic in the daily game against addiction. It's a choice between quitting once or battling addiction daily, which takes more headspace than I care to give it.
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Old 08-21-2018, 09:07 AM
  # 247 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by daredevil View Post
Your line of thinking reminds me of a SMART exercise (Hierarchy of Values): aligning your values and beliefs with your behaviors so as to avoid cognitive dissonance. But three years ago, before drinking became a solitary and daily activity, I was just fine drinking once or twice a week to excess at my favorite establishment.

In other words, there was no divided self, so that argument leaves open the possibility for future drinking.

Seems to me that swearing it off forever is the only away to obviate the mental gymnastics endemic in the daily game against addiction. It's a choice between quitting once or battling the beast daily, which takes more headspace than I care to give it.
Fair enough - but 1. you strike me as the kind of person for who mental gymnastics are a natural way of being. Semantics are important for people like us. Unless of course your gymnastic routine is just an excuse for possibly drinking again.

2. Alcoholism truly is progressive. I don't buy a lot of the tropes thrown around here and elsewhere, but I do very much believe in that. So whatever your drinking practice was for years that didn't cause conflict at time is simply irrelevant now. That's like a morbidly obese person saying that their love of ice cream as an adolescent was just fine, didn't cause a divided self, which leaves open the possibility for future consumption. Who cares that we indulged in booze at some point in the past (regardless of the distance of the time), things are changed man. Not a good argument, and irrelevant anyhow.
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Old 08-21-2018, 09:12 AM
  # 248 (permalink)  
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Your second point is a valid one; I'm not a big fan of the lexicon of recovery, but alcoholism is truly progressive, but recovery strikes me as a residual stage of addiction, one that can have (and has had more so than less) a similarly diminishing impact on my life. How does one move forward when one is still focused on the days removed from the last drink? Would you say that you're fully recovered and reintegrated or still overly focused on not drinking? I ask out of curiosity.
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Old 08-21-2018, 09:33 AM
  # 249 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by daredevil View Post
Your second point is a valid one; I'm not a big fan of the lexicon of recovery, but alcoholism is truly progressive, but recovery strikes me as a residual stage of addiction, one that can have (and has had more so than less) a similarly diminishing impact on my life. How does one move forward when one is still focused on the days removed from the last drink? Would you say that you're fully recovered and reintegrated or still overly focused on not drinking? I ask out of curiosity.
1. How to move forward - I think one just moves forward. This question seems more to be about the practical actions taken to not drink, which, especially in these early days, just comes down to not drinking. However that is achieved.

2. I am fully recovered in that it would take an act of self-betrayal for me to ever drink again. The "thinking about non drinking" for me has truly dissipated. I was racked with those thoughts for so long, obsessively, and had been in previous attempts to quit. This time I'm further out than I've even been from the poison and I've found those thoughts have died. I have the sentimental/nostalgic/frustrated/angry I can't thoughts here and there under certain circumstances. But those are uncommon. I'm certain that drinking is not what it once was for me, (if it ever was that), and that only by being sober can I give myself the chance to achieve wholeness/actualization in this life. I'm fully recovered. And now it feels like the real work starts.

I don't know the language like the other posters who've responded to this thread - but I agree, sounds like you are still identifying with that aspect of your self that wants the poison.
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Old 08-21-2018, 11:31 AM
  # 250 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by lessgravity View Post
I don't know the language like the other posters who've responded to this thread - but I agree, sounds like you are still identifying with that aspect of your self that wants the poison.
That might be true, but they're just thoughts-- no big deal. I agree that any more drinking would be a betrayal, there's no doubt about that.

As a practical matter, as long as I don't drink, I don't really care how I feel about it.

I'm going about all my regular stuff too, keeping busy and staying fit; it's all good.

I'm definitely not stuck, even though the drinking thoughts sometimes become cumbersome.

In time, they'll become less frequent.

And if they don't, I still won't drink.
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Old 08-30-2018, 06:46 AM
  # 251 (permalink)  
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What's crackin' DD?
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Old 08-30-2018, 10:28 AM
  # 252 (permalink)  
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Wow!! Sounds like you are both succeeding in your own ways.... beautiful. I see similarities in both your discussions and some subtle differences.

Great we are all unique and can come to SR for respectful, insightful discussion.

Hope to see more of you on different threads.....
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Old 08-31-2018, 12:05 PM
  # 253 (permalink)  
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Don't drink the f**king vodka, DD.
That's really the thing.

Whether you are dipping in and out of certain methods is academic.
And there's nothing wrong with being academic.
But don't think your way into a "one timer" as you call it.

I'm thinking of you, comrade.
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Old 09-05-2018, 06:55 AM
  # 254 (permalink)  
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My guy?
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Old 10-04-2018, 10:35 AM
  # 255 (permalink)  
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So many pages in this thread. I've read most.

I have spent years where my addiction afforded me the ability to relapse, but those included everything....jail, etc. Still, sobriety was so painful that I was willing to trade the horrors of it for a couple of hours of relief. Finally, that stopped. Without the drama, I can't drink anymore.


I've spent years deconstructing the book, The steps, the people, the HP, everything. I have no interest in that anymore. There are a million contradictory postulates in the book, people's interpretation of them, and the concept of a participative god. I can't care anymore. When I drink very bad things happen in every single domain....health, relationships, legal, familial, etc. I absolutely wish you the best DD, but in my experience, you'll know when it's over. Recovery will be there then. Best
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Old 10-04-2018, 07:01 PM
  # 256 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by cordeliatolear View Post
So many pages in this thread. I've read most.

I have spent years where my addiction afforded me the ability to relapse, but those included everything....jail, etc. Still, sobriety was so painful that I was willing to trade the horrors of it for a couple of hours of relief. Finally, that stopped. Without the drama, I can't drink anymore.


I've spent years deconstructing the book, The steps, the people, the HP, everything. I have no interest in that anymore. There are a million contradictory postulates in the book, people's interpretation of them, and the concept of a participative god. I can't care anymore. When I drink very bad things happen in every single domain....health, relationships, legal, familial, etc. I absolutely wish you the best DD, but in my experience, you'll know when it's over. Recovery will be there then. Best
Beautifully, beautifully put.

Thankful to be there myself.
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Old 10-05-2018, 06:41 AM
  # 257 (permalink)  
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I miss DD. I hope he's been able to make the choice to stop.
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Old 11-01-2018, 05:28 AM
  # 258 (permalink)  
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He is/was always able to make the choice, everyone is, it's whether or not one does it.
Deciding to never start again , planning on never starting again removes the need for former and cements , self reinforces the latter.
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Old 11-05-2018, 05:33 AM
  # 259 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by daredevil View Post
least,

People make it seem like it's so easy.
It's not.
I can only speak for myself....recovery is a bitch.

But to continue lying to myself is worse.... I don't care about me... but my kids and my wife.... that's another story.

I had to hate it and myself until I couldn't stand it and even then about 3PM my brain starts trying to convince me "it's OK, we got it this time" or "**** those guys I'm going to show them!"


Right now I embrace my hate and humiliation and hold it close to my chest.... and tell my brain to "**** off"....
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Old 11-05-2018, 06:27 AM
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Let me rephrase for the pedantic.

I hope he stopped.
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