The “unbreakable promise” - for all practical purposes
well, some of it depends on the thread and the forum itself, of course.
i wouldn't expect a widening of the lens or more inclusivity of differing views in a thread specifically devoted to AVRT for example.
nor would i expect to find welcome for The Freedom Model in the 12-step section. just usingthese as examples.
but many threads here are not model- or method-specific, giving the impression that the space is more open.
i wouldn't expect a widening of the lens or more inclusivity of differing views in a thread specifically devoted to AVRT for example.
nor would i expect to find welcome for The Freedom Model in the 12-step section. just usingthese as examples.
but many threads here are not model- or method-specific, giving the impression that the space is more open.
Originally Posted by MindfulMan
I can't imagine any situation where drinking would ever be a positive force in my life, or at the very least one that wouldn't be dwarfed by the negative consequences of addiction.
That’s how I thought when I used to drink, even between my binges, because of 2 reasons: I was still trying to figure out how to drink and stay out of trouble, and I knew recovery in our society was endless and stigmatized.
But I no longer see it as having to be an “additional negative consequence”. I now consider that the involvement of my family, boss, and/or local court can be a caring, judicious, even loving paying attention, treating me with respect and decency as a competent adult seeking from me accountability, trust, and normalcy as a common teetotaler.
Yes, in my mind “You’d better not drink again, or else...” can be the most caring, judicious, and loving involvement any authority can take in response to a damaging drunken spree by a dependent drinker.
Originally Posted by MindfulMan
It's a subtle difference. I pretty much know that I will never drink or use cocaine again.
Is it ok to interpret “shouldn’t be so precious about our own methods”, Dropsie’s agreement, and the several thanks as a plug for “YES” inform the drunkard who is seeking recovery about the “unbreakable promise” (for all practical purposes) option?
But I can't imagine going through the rest of my sober life not drinking just because of a promise I made to myself years before, that's an emotionless logical sort of path a computer might take, but I can't. I don't drink, and won't ever drink again, because I don't wish to and because I know that no matter what happens, good or bad, I will quickly turn it all to ashes if I were to start drinking again. And if I ever waver, I can think back to where drinking led me in 2010, and remember what it was like. It was hell, and for me alcohol is forever closely tied to that hell, so there's a very strong revulsion factor that I don't think I'll ever lose.
well, some of it depends on the thread and the forum itself, of course.
i wouldn't expect a widening of the lens or more inclusivity of differing views in a thread specifically devoted to AVRT for example.
nor would i expect to find welcome for The Freedom Model in the 12-step section. just usingthese as examples.
but many threads here are not model- or method-specific, giving the impression that the space is more open.
i wouldn't expect a widening of the lens or more inclusivity of differing views in a thread specifically devoted to AVRT for example.
nor would i expect to find welcome for The Freedom Model in the 12-step section. just usingthese as examples.
but many threads here are not model- or method-specific, giving the impression that the space is more open.
Here are the two SR Principles I like the best (they’re all good):
Tolerance: Please respect the rights of others to hold beliefs and perspectives, which differ from yours. Our Sober Recovery Forum members are of many nationalities, ages, and cultures. Healthy, vigorous debate will further our goals, but only when guided by the tolerance that springs from mutual embrace of mission.
Responsible Behavior: Your attendance here carries a responsibility. Ours is a mission of mind and perspective, and consequently, attention is our most precious resource. Do not waste what attention you may attract, nor seek to attract it with wasteful actions. Remember that personal worldview is a most powerful motivator; never treat another's lightly.
The bolded text is totally my own emphasis and not an emphasis by SR.
excellent guidance. bold emphasis my own:
Tolerance: Please respect the rights of others to hold beliefs and perspectives, which differ from yours. Our Sober Recovery Forum members are of many nationalities, ages, and cultures. Healthy, vigorous debate will further our goals, but only when guided by the tolerance that springs from mutual embrace of mission.
I think “how people react” can now include more mature and adult responses instead of “anger and contrary behavior”.
When certain negative consequences of drunkenness cause the family, employer, and/or local judicial body to get involved and demand accountability from the drunkard, that involvement is often thought of by the drunkard as being simply an additional negative consequence on top of the initiating one.
That’s how I thought when I used to drink, even between my binges, because of 2 reasons: I was still trying to figure out how to drink and stay out of trouble, and I knew recovery in our society was endless and stigmatized.
But I no longer see it as having to be an “additional negative consequence”. I now consider that the involvement of my family, boss, and/or local court can be a caring, judicious, even loving paying attention, treating me with respect and decency as a competent adult seeking from me accountability, trust, and normalcy as a common teetotaler.
Yes, in my mind “You’d better not drink again, or else...” can be the most caring, judicious, and loving involvement any authority can take in response to a damaging drunken spree by a dependent drinker.
When I took out the “pretty much” I became even happier.
When certain negative consequences of drunkenness cause the family, employer, and/or local judicial body to get involved and demand accountability from the drunkard, that involvement is often thought of by the drunkard as being simply an additional negative consequence on top of the initiating one.
That’s how I thought when I used to drink, even between my binges, because of 2 reasons: I was still trying to figure out how to drink and stay out of trouble, and I knew recovery in our society was endless and stigmatized.
But I no longer see it as having to be an “additional negative consequence”. I now consider that the involvement of my family, boss, and/or local court can be a caring, judicious, even loving paying attention, treating me with respect and decency as a competent adult seeking from me accountability, trust, and normalcy as a common teetotaler.
Yes, in my mind “You’d better not drink again, or else...” can be the most caring, judicious, and loving involvement any authority can take in response to a damaging drunken spree by a dependent drinker.
When I took out the “pretty much” I became even happier.
I'm really not sure how you got from my talk about negative consequences to assuming that people's concern itself is a "negative consequence," or is unloving, etc. I was thinking more in terms of DUIs, ruined relationships, lost jobs, health, jail, homelessness as negative consequences.
My observation with ultimatums to stop drinking, particularly in marriages and significant relationships, is that more times than not they don't work. The user simply doesn't care, or more often the threat is not carried through. The change mostly seems to happen when someone actually leaves, or fires someone, or sends them to jail, or takes their car. And it's cumulative. Some call it a bottom, I guess that's a term for it. I just think it's the point where an addict can no longer try and negotiate their way out of their addiction, in whatever form that negotiation takes.
"Pretty much" is California slang for "TOTALLY." It was meant ironically.
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