fini

3tree,
the idea behind every program or plan or method i have encountered is to NOT have to constantly make decisions anew each time there is an opportunity, option or "trigger" to drink.( you will run into posts that tell you otherwise about 12-step program, but that is misinformation).
if you read more you will encounter here mention of The Big Plan, which is all about never drinking again and never changing your mind.
there is then no need to revisit that decision. the option of drinking again has been removed.
grappling anew with that decision over and over would be an exhausting and torturous way of living, andi have not heard anyone recommend it, though sometimes folks find that is the spot they are in.
way to go on 17 days; stick around.

Algorithm

Morning Glory covered some of the history of the Secular Connections forum in this thread:
AVRT is not about choosing not to use, one-craving-at-a-time. The Big Plan of AVRT, which GerandTwine refers to as AVRT's name for the ancient pledge to abstain, is, instead, a conscious decision to remove the option to choose altogether.

This is not so. You can, instead, decide, once and for all, never to decide again. That is, once again, to instead remove that option entirely.

Tyler was apparently around before the creation of the Secular Connections forum, and still remembers the 'old days', so to speak.

He is correct in that SC is not strictly for AVRT discussion, but I don't believe that AVRT has 'dominated' SC, as he does. Rather, what Terminally Unique did with the AVRT discussion thread was unusual, and is something that those who prefer other non-12-step recovery methods besides AVRT have yet to replicate.

They still can do so, and Morning Glory very recently created a brand new forum for them to do just that, but still, no one is stepping up to the plate, apparently.

Quitting is not easy for your Beast, since it will starve, but it is very easy for you, 3trees.

As GerandTwine noted earlier, anyone can get the hang of AVRT in about two weeks, and anyone can knock it off for two weeks in order to learn about AVRT.

I advise that you get yourself a copy of Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction by Jack Trimpey, and that you read through the main AVRT discussion thread.
You can also search on Google for the free Crash Course on AVRT, which you can complete in about half an hour, so that you will have some familiarity with what is being discussed in the AVRT threads, until your copy of RR: TNC arrives.

Algorithm

While I understand your frustration, Tatsy, I trust and hope that you can nevertheless understand that I don't agree with you here.

Let the nay-sayers cross-examine, Tatsy. AVRT is a ruthless logic engine that attacks the very foundations that sustain addiction.

Those who dare tread there, whether 'secular' or otherwise, will be exposed for what they are, as being complicit with addiction itself. Personally, I welcome their attacks. They provide an opportunity to expose the mindset that prevents people from recovering.

That's right, people who oppose AVRT. Please continue to attack. I wholeheartedly welcome it entirely. You will gain absolutely nothing by doing so, and almost certainly lose ground by choosing that approach, at least as far as public opinion is concerned.

In case you still disagree, Tatsy, I will provide a link to your 'landmark' threads:

JeffreyAK

This is very illuminating, thank you, though it probably does not illuminate what you intended to illuminate.

Algorithm

You are frankly mistaken, Jeffrey. Although I certainly understand and appreciate entirely Morning Glory's attempts to keep the peace on SR, the reality is that AVRT cannot be 'bashed' at all. AVRT is deeply rooted in reality and practical personal experience -- the lore of self recovery. It needs no defending per se.

People may 'crash' and attempt to derail AVRT threads, but they will not gain any traction whatsoever, at least not with the right people around. AVRT is absolutely ruthless in exposing the mentality that sustains addiction, and it will inevitably expose the nay-sayers for what they are, regardless of any word-play they may employ.

As previously noted in this thread, I would encourage both you and others, who favor other 'secular' approaches to recovery besides AVRT, to do precisely what Terminally Unique did with his AVRT discussion thread in the new forum that Morning Glory recently created towards that end.

That would be more constructive in the long run, would it not?

tyler

My understanding of the new forums was that they were created as "safe spaces" for AVRT and other secular methods. That being that in the AVRT forum would no allow "criticism" or what you may call "bashing" of the method. The same for the other forum, but in reverse. This forum would be available for "open discussion" of all methods.

If what you say is true, there is no need for a separate forum for AVRT as no open discussion of it would be allowed here. The thing I have always loved about this forum is that open discussion has always been allowed, even encouraged. I understand that you feel that AVRT is the perfect method of recovery for YOU. Many 12-step people find that it is the perfect program for THEM. Just because someone is pointing out what they perceive to be issues does not mean that they are attacking you. If you don't want to discuss AVRT with people who may have opposing opinions, you should probably post in the AVRT forum.

fini

wow.

i see. anything not in support is attacks.
okay.
thanks for clarifying where you're coming from.

tyler

Upon looking back at the threads over the past year or so I would agree that AVRT has not necessarily "dominated" SC. I have only recently been active here after staying away for some time. In the short time I have been back it has dominated the discussion. I don't necessarily have a problem with that as long as it does not drown out discussion of other methods.

Lately both supporters and critics have been very "vocal" about their positions. I also don't have a problem with this, as long as both sides are respectful of the others. All that said, I am just one member of this forum, the fact that I have been a member for a long time was only mentioned because I have seen both the creation and evolution of this forum over the years. My thoughts and opinions bear no more weight than anyone else's. Take care.

Morning Glory

We're not going to go there.

Thank you everyone for the answers to my questions.