Fusion

I view my Big Plan as an anti-virus program which filters out and discards the AV (Addictive Voice) by operating the linked AVRT (Addictive Voice Recognition Technique).

With almost 17 months sobriety (after over twenty years addiction) I find AVRT works predominantly subconsciously, due to my BP. Very little AV rises into my consciousness, due to neuro plasticity. Any that does, is ignored, effortlessly.

AlericB

Good analogy Tatsy. The program would be a simple "If AV then ignore" statement inside an infinite loop. While this would be run with a conscious effort in the beginning, over time thanks to neuroplasticity it would run more and more as a background process. Glad I could get the word 'process' in . The BP is the simple set of instructions, the program itself, and the dissociative technique is the actual execution of the program.

dwtbd

AlericB
When would you say the process becomes operable?

dwtbd

Does anyone see the difference between the sentiments “I will remain abstinent” and “I don’t drink”?

AlericB

Well, it makes little sense to write a program if you don't intend to run it - they naturally belong together.

Let me ask you a straightforward question in return.

Do you believe that the practice of recognising and separating from AV is required or is not required in order to quit for good?

I'm not saying there's a right or wrong answer to this btw but the answer is straightforward either way.

dwtbd

Yes recognition and separation are paramount. That’s why I feel it so important to point It out.
Do you see, as an example , the difference between the above sentiments?

AlericB

Well, I would like to clarify something first if you don't mind.

All I've been saying it seems to me is that the practice of separating from AV is required in order to stay quit for life. Making the decision to do so is not in itself sufficient to guarantee success.

My reading is that you disagree with this and have been maintaining that making a BP alone is required.

Is that an accurate description of what you have been saying and do you disagree with anything in what I've just said?

dwtbd

Making a BP is what creates the separation and the need for recognition in order to maintain it.
My intent is not to try and prove anyone wrong , but to highlight , show, recognize AV.

biminiblue

dwtbd, you have the most intriguing thoughts.

Greenwood618

Separating and shifting can be useful.

But not required.

If some evil madman had a futuristic brain scanning machine that could detect when I was separating and shifting and threatened my life if I did so, I would still not drink.

AlericB

Dwtbd,

Sorry, but I just find that too evasive. So I don't really know how to continue this.

dwtbd

If I may, I’ll just chalk that up to my lack of communication skills.

You do see the AV , mostly cultural btw that I keep trying to point , no?

Trohyn

My view.

"I will remain abstinent" implies the very realistic circumstance in the future WHEN the Beast will rear its ugly head and I will employ the AVRT techniques to dismiss it. (AVRT as a process).

"I don't drink" implies that I have made a BP and that any muttering from the Beast is meaningless. (AVRT as an event)

My assertion is that I am at the former "stage" now and I will move towards the latter statement as I practice AVRT further.

Whether it's neuroplasticity or not is irrelevant so I won't use that term again.

Fusion

I separated/dissociated from the Beast when I made my Big Plan. The BP then acted as an anti-virus program, instantly recognising and ignoring the Beast’s AV, when it arose.

Maybe I’m missing something. RR/AVRT seems straightforward to me. If I’m overlooking a key concept, process, or nuance, it matters not, because my understanding and practise of it, definitely works, awesomely well.

This is my understanding from my reading and interaction with Secular Connections and when I made my BP in September 2016. I stand to be corrected by a purist, of course, perhaps for the purpose of clarity and the benefit of Newcomers......... but personally, I can’t say I would’ve successfully learnt and applied RR/AVRT had I landed on SR this year....

Fusion

Meant to add: when I made my Big Plan, I became a non-drinker. Separation from the Beast was an event, whereas recognition was a process.

dwtbd

Tatsy
So you would say that you ended your addiction by deciding to never put alcohol in your mouth ever again, and that you feel confident in your ability to keep that commitment to yourself, regardless of thoughts to the contrary that spring up internally or that you may encounter from others?
Sounds pretty straight forward to me.

dwtbd

Why wait to progress to the ‘next’ stage ? If you have a copy of TNC , read through and practice some of the shifting exercises, show the Beast who is the owner of the title “The Boss”

Fusion

Yes, 100%. Although I’ll add, I only ever drank in reaction to my internal thoughts (AV) and not due to any thoughts that I encountered from others.

Trohyn

Don't rush me.
I'm doing alright!

dwtbd

Yeah me too I only drank because I wanted to.
I was susceptible though, to the idea that I couldn’t just stop doing that