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Back again on AVRT

Old 12-13-2017, 12:45 PM
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Back again on AVRT

back again. I have tried avrt and drank, AA and drank; both programs at once and drank. my "relapses" are horrendous, I lose everything I own which is not much. Prayed my ass off to Higher power to remove obsession which would not leave for a good two weeks until I gave in.

Yes, I have been here before, but what else is there for me to do.

will start reading the AVRT book once more. and see what comes up this time. I have tried seeing the obsession as just my beastly brain wanting a drink, I did this after higher power, meetings...ect did not work and I still succumbed.
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Old 12-13-2017, 03:57 PM
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Did you decide not to drink for good, no matter what? I guess this is the Big Plan part. You need to understand that this is a new life you are committing to, and a whole bunch of things will change for you. Your beast will say you will fail, but that is a lie to keep you drinking. When you get a thought about drinking again ever, or failing at not drinking, you need to understand that this is just your beast, looking for another drink. It wil never ‘understand’, and will always be there. The point is that once you choose to never again drink, it no longer matters what it says or does. It is done and finished.

You can do this, NiC. I know it.
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Old 12-13-2017, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by freshstart57 View Post
Did you decide not to drink for good, no matter what? I guess this is the Big Plan part. You need to understand that this is a new life you are committing to, and a whole bunch of things will change for you. Your beast will say you will fail, but that is a lie to keep you drinking. When you get a thought about drinking again ever, or failing at not drinking, you need to understand that this is just your beast, looking for another drink. It wil never ‘understand’, and will always be there. The point is that once you choose to never again drink, it no longer matters what it says or does. It is done and finished.

You can do this, NiC. I know it.
I wish it was that easy. we ve been here before. will make another Big Plan
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Old 12-14-2017, 01:10 AM
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I wonder if it might help to say in as detailed a way as possible what thoughts/feelings were you having when you decided to drink again.

This may help give you a feeling of being in control (and then you'll have to change your name ) because you'll see that you drank for a reason, even though not a very good one of course because there is never a good reason to start drinking again, rather than as something mysterious that caught you unaware or just happened to you.

Perhaps if you posted these thoughts and feelings here people here could give you some feedback from their own experience.
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Old 12-14-2017, 06:40 AM
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Hi NIC, welcome back! After you’ve re-read parts of the book, and maybe reflected on Aleric’s great suggestion above; please post again and we will try to assist, by offering our experiences.
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Old 12-14-2017, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by AlericB View Post
I wonder if it might help to say in as detailed a way as possible what thoughts/feelings were you having when you decided to drink again.

This may help give you a feeling of being in control (and then you'll have to change your name ) because you'll see that you drank for a reason, even though not a very good one of course because there is never a good reason to start drinking again, rather than as something mysterious that caught you unaware or just happened to you.

Perhaps if you posted these thoughts and feelings here people here could give you some feedback from their own experience.
as far as the name goes, I joined this site a while back as of you know. when I joined I was doing AA and notincontrol meant God/HP was. tried to change it by emailing admin, never heard from them. for my thoughts before the drink, will post soon.
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Old 12-14-2017, 08:37 AM
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I understand that about the name.

As I'm sure you know, in the AVRT paradigm we can't control the AV we experience and it can't be removed. Instead we remove ourselves from it.
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Old 12-14-2017, 01:29 PM
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It might be helpful to note this time around that AVRT isn't a program in the traditional sense of the word.

It is self help and a simple decision making matrix based upon the structural model of addiction. Any clinging to the disease model of addiction is sabotage.

In AVRT you accept that no one cares if you drink or not. You aren't a helpless alcoholic bumbling around, sick, causing problems, begging pathetic atta-boys from strangers, always in trouble and not knowing what to do.

AVRT is on you - the only way recovery happens. No programs, no process, just a decision supported by the lesson plan and an understanding of the structural model of addiction.
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Old 12-15-2017, 04:49 AM
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How's it going NIC?
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Old 12-15-2017, 08:02 AM
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I’ve been reflecting on the decades of drinking that led to my decision to make a Big Plan, as it is in AVRT and thereby stop, drinking, forever. Reading around SRs boards, I read folks who like me, desperately wanted to stop drinking. Because drinking went against their better judgement: day in, day out.

And I’m reflecting on what changed for me, what happened to put drinking behind me, forever, and please believe me, I know I will never drink again, no matter what.. And I realised that I saw, felt, subsumed, the fact that the part of me that wanted to drink, was ‘a part’ of me, but ‘not me’, it was simply the addicted part of my brain, it is not me.

When that ambivalence was recognised, then, and only then, was I able to recognise the addictions AV and thereby, separate from it. Once the separation took place, I could never drink again, no matter what, because if a ‘craving’ arose....it wasn’t me, (just an echo of my Beast/addiction/AVs Voice) because ‘I’ don’t want to and will never drink again.
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Old 12-15-2017, 03:59 PM
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For a long long time I knew I had to quit drinking and I knew the only way to quit was to quit but I had a really hard time accepting what I knew and I lived in that limbo for many years. It wasn't until I had accepted that I could never ever drink again, even if that part of me really wanted to. I to accept it was over. That, in my opinion, is the hardest part NIC. That was the process, building up to my decision to quit once and for all eternity. Quitting was an event. Boom. It's over because I say so. Enough.

AVRT treats you like the adult that you are. If you aren't ready to quit then you aren't, but when you are AVRT gives you the tools to tame the Booze Beast and learn to live comfortably despite residual desire communicated via the AV.

There's no looking for a miracle with AVRT, no one is coming to save you. You have to save yourself! And you have to embrace the new life that sobriety can offer you! Once you've made your BP and you start to recognize your Addictive Voice in its many facets you will start to see the many lies your addiction tells you. It's tough in the beginning but it gets easier and you'll reach a point where you couldn't imagine going back to living that way. I had no idea what I missing out on by living trapped in that cycle.

You got this!
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Old 12-15-2017, 05:57 PM
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I've picked up the book again. detoxing at home.
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Old 12-16-2017, 10:36 AM
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I think even though the book says that recovery is an event not a process, I believe that reading the book making your big plan is not the end of it. (I know, you are thinking this is my beast talking). but in my case, I read the book, made the big plan, implemented the recognition of the AV in my daily life and yet got drunk. (you will say I just decided to drink) I had an obsession that would not leave me for 2 weeks than I drunk.
Reason I am saying all of this is because I think that, and I am talking about myself, I need to stay in touch with other AVRTs not in the way of the rooms in the recovery programs but maybe here, reading posts and replying and the like.
someone asked on here a while ago, that if all you need is to make a Big Plan and recognize the AV to be recovered, then why this forum and you members here.
a member responded that the recovered AVRTs are here to help the new person understand the in and outs of the AV and the beast.
Now, I wonder if this just part of the truth.
Now which part of this talk is me and which is my beast?
or is it all me because I want to recover once and for all.
I have been reluctant to write on the forum for a while(now that is my beast)
I would open the forum and close it(that's my beast)
in fact, I was telling myself, you are reading the book, starting to recognize the AV again, and ready to get back the world, why go to the forum again? BIG TIME Beast talk.
Having said all of this, I am sorry if I went on for too long, hope I made a bit of sense.
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Old 12-16-2017, 10:47 AM
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Not in control
What is your plan for future alcohol use?
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Old 12-16-2017, 11:07 AM
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Hi Notincontrol, you are making sense, I understand. When I started writing in Secular, my Beast hated it, thought everyone who replied to me was being overly simplistic “you can’t stop drinking forever, that’s madness, you can only stop one day at a time” etc., because my Beast loved ODAAT, because it always had the loophole, to drink or not to drink, every, single, day.

There are a few of us AVRTers who read and post in secular, plus some scattered around SR forums, engaging with others. I would urge you to keep posting, here in your thread.

I still believe it might be a useful excercise for you, to reflect back on that moment when the ‘Beast’ plotted, planned and guided you to pick up the drink, what it’s mouthpiece, the AV said.

Don’t worry if you feel that won’t help, but please keep posting, because when you post, it’s you, as the Beast hates the finality of AVRT.
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Old 12-16-2017, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by dwtbd View Post
Not in control
What is your plan for future alcohol use?
Now, this sounds just like something I would hear in the "rooms" (have you reach yourbottom yet? keep coming back...ect. a very "smart" comment.. now that I let my some steem off

I will not drink and I will never change mind.
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Old 12-16-2017, 12:16 PM
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What are you going to do about experiencing residual desire?
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Old 12-16-2017, 12:18 PM
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As an adjunct to Rational Recovery, you might consider information on the SMART Recovery website. The forum there includes sections on Building and Maintaining Motivation, Coping with Urges, Managing Thoughts, Feelings and Behaviors, and Living a Balanced Life. Rational Recovery definitely helped me in terms of saying never again, making a plan, and utilizing the concept of the AV to cope with cravings and irrational thinking, but I don't care what anybody says, life is a process, not an event. Call it The Beast or call it automatic pilot, it is mindfulness of our inner dialogue that makes the difference. Call it recovery or call it sobriety or call it whatever you want, but it's not a single event (as you well know, NIC), but rather, a series of events involving commitment, skills, adjusting to living differently, and more. If recovery were an event there would be little need for any of us to keep returning to this forum. Do what works for you, keep an open mind, learn from many sources of wisdom...
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Old 12-16-2017, 12:34 PM
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For me, NIC, it was an event, just the same as the event when I was finally diagnosed with life-threatening asthma, after nearly losing my life in my twenties due to undiagnosed asthma and a class A attack that almost killed me. So the asthma event was being diagnosed and prescribed two inhalers, which I take each day.

In the same way, I was addicted to alcohol, it was killing me, I made a Big Plan, then I utilised Addictive Voice Recognition Technique, to filter out and negate the AV, each day, but unlike asthma, the AV lessened, but I maintained my AV radar, so that I remained in the NOW, it’s always the NOW and thereby I became permanently Booze free.

Asthma free, Booze Beast free: they were both events, after the initial investigation and learning processes.

That’s not to say that other processes cannot render my life, post alcohol, better. I will never drink again and never change my mind, but nonetheless, independently from the addiction, now dealt with, I am now actively dealing with my negatively biased brain (by design - lizard brain fight, freeze or flight reacting to sabre -toothed tiger- which is madness because they don’t exist where I live) by choosing to grow a positive mindset, to include music, art, meditation, gratitude lists (I know...but they work scientifically) excercise, nutrition. But as I said, these adjuncts are separate from the fact that I will never drink again, no matter what, although they do improve my life.
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Old 12-16-2017, 12:36 PM
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Living is a process, ending an addiction is an event , if not it hasn't ended.
The only thing that says otherwise is AV by definition.
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