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Old 09-11-2017, 05:02 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Speaking to professionals about AVRT


Hi everyone, just wanted to discuss AVRT a little due to a recent experience. Bare in mind I use AVRT and I am firmly committed to sticking to it as my 'Recovery' method. But if the AV shows up in my post here it's because I'm a little fuzzy headed still, feel free to point It out if I miss It. I will keep this as brief as possible.

I was recently hospitalised due to the fact I drank heavily for 5 days after a year without drinking anything at all.

The A&E department were very good but I could see they were fed up with having to deal with yet another drunk. I could feel my AV saying "They should be more supportive" while my rational self was overwhelmed with guilt and shame for wasting their time and resources. I knew I could trust the guilt and shame, after all, I had done something very wrong.

They brought the mental health team in and I was interviewed by a psychiatrist (here is where I need some advice) The psychiatrist was telling me that I drank because of my anxiety and depression, using it as a self-medication. It was very tempting to believe her, but I know enough from using AVRT that this simply isn't true. The only reason anyone drinks is to feel the buzz.

Since then I have been referred to mental health teams and every professional I speak to seems adamant that I am suffering from 'Depression' and I have gone along with it so far. I feel like a total fraud because I know the truth, I drank to get drunk. I tried to explain AVRT to the psychiatrist and my GP but they'd never heard of it. They are certain that the 'underlying problem' is anxiety and depression, my family are certain of this too.

I'm suppose to be contacting an addiction counsellor but I looked through the leaflet and it is full of "one to one support" and "group support", I just know for a fact that this is going to be a total waste of their time and mine, but I don't want the family to think I'm not 'trying'

I have suffered from anxiety in the past and I may take up the offer of CBT counselling, but I'm going to let them know that I consider the anxiety totally separate to alcohol. I know I don't suffer from depression because it clears up immediately the moment I'm sober.

Thank you for taking the time to read my post.
I just needed to talk on AVRT terms with people who know about it, as everyone I speak to is deep in recovery program mentality (Not bashing them as I know I'm the one who is well in the wrong.)

Any advice appreciated.
Thanks.
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Old 09-11-2017, 05:51 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonelyShadow View Post
I drank heavily for five days...I'm a little fuzzy headed still...I use AVRT and I am firmly committed to sticking to it as my 'Recovery' method.
Any advice appreciated.
Thanks.
Since you are brand new to AVRT you will soon grasp that a Big Plan will make it impossible for you to drink again, and you can then begin to rebuild the trust in others that you so recently lost.

Having drunk only 5 out of the last 370 days, you have a pretty good leg to stand on as you inform your friends and loved ones of your new irrevokable commitment.
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Old 09-11-2017, 06:14 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Thanks Gerand,

It was using AVRT that meant I was sober for that year so I had already made my Big Plan. Which I suppose gives rise to the question (or maybe it's my AV asking this question)

Do I make my Big Plan again, or had I just failed to stick to my original Big Plan? Might seem like a small detail but I know semantics is important in AVRT.

Either way: I will never drink again, and I will never change my mind.
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Old 09-11-2017, 06:18 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Please report in detail what was happening minute to minute in the ten minutes before you had that first drink last week - where, when, who, and all the self talk, and feelings you were having at that time.
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Old 09-11-2017, 07:30 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Please report in detail what was happening minute to minute in the ten minutes before you had that first drink last week - where, when, who, and all the self talk, and feelings you were having at that time.
Seriously?
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Old 09-11-2017, 08:05 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Why do you think you drank? Depression, anxiety, etc., are real, and people drink for different reasons (it's not always just the buzz), but it is always a choice to drink. Even with depression and anxiety, we still have other options to deal with that other than drinking.
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Old 09-11-2017, 09:34 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GerandTwine
Please report in detail what was happening minute to minute in the ten minutes before you had that first drink last week - where, when, who, and all the self talk, and feelings you were having at that time.
Seriously?
Your "Seriously?" and all the feelings behind that response is 110% hardcore Addictive Voice!

Of course 'seriously'. You don't have to give actual names of people or locations. It's easy to answer without compromising your privacy.
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Old 09-11-2017, 10:08 AM   #8 (permalink)
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The [insert any noun here] was telling me that I drank because of my anxiety and depression, using it as a self-medication. It was very tempting to believe [noun], but I know enough from using AVRT that this simply isn't true. The only reason anyone drinks is to feel the buzz.
This is an important conclusion in AVRT that you have come to understand.

I find it even more accurate to call it a "deep pleasure" instead of "buzz" because it is like orgasmic pleasure, but one that can span many minutes instead of seconds.

Also, a major part of Addictive Voice Recognition Technique is filtering out the Addictive Voice from the society we are immersed within. We have a great example here, for instance, on this very thread focusing on AVRT that has only several posts. You state very clearly your understanding of why you drank, but that reason is so unacceptable to some ways of thinking that it is pretended that you didn't even express that awareness at all and you are then asked to come up with a different reason for drinking. Anything, anything but "deep pleasure".

Once you make your Big Plan, all this AV around you will become less than a nuisance.
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Old 09-11-2017, 10:23 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Why do you think you drank? Depression, anxiety, etc., are real, and people drink for different reasons (it's not always just the buzz), but it is always a choice to drink. Even with depression and anxiety, we still have other options to deal with that other than drinking.
It is always the buzz, the effects of alcohol that leads one to drink, how could it be otherwise?

Do you mean to ask what is the 'reason' one decided to get drunk 'for'?

With AVRT the 'reasons' for getting drunk don't actually matter, you either drink or not.
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Old 09-11-2017, 11:24 AM   #10 (permalink)
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It is always the buzz, the effects of alcohol that leads one to drink, how could it be otherwise?
Well sure, strictly speaking it's (almost) always the effects of alcohol, though some people drink because they like the taste, or because they feel compelled by social pressure even if they hate alcohol (champagne at a wedding reception, for example, my parents were like that). By "buzz" I mean "pleasure", which isn't always true. Can be relief, can be avoidance and to forget, can be for spite, can even be self-destruction.

But I agree, we either drink in response to internal or external pressures, or we don't. We never have to drink, even if it seems like that's the best or even an acceptable option, and if we do drink it's usually helpful to go back and analyze what happened prior to making that choice. Like a root-cause analysis after an accident, yes, we drank, but what things enabled that choice, and what can we do in the future to better protect ourselves.
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Old 09-11-2017, 12:21 PM   #11 (permalink)
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If you do drink you haven't quit, so quit, never drink again.

It is not complicated, the AV says it is, because that's its function.

A root-cause analysis isn't going to undo prior 'causes', or prevent future 'causes' within the same context.

Quitting is a new context, a whole new paradigm. If you make a BP , Quit for good , forever and not change your mind, how could you drink again ?

Not to put words or ideas into anyones' mouth , but I think GT is asking LS to give a minute by minute account to pinpoint the time/statement/thought that shows that a BP was never really in place.

The OP says he/she used AVRT to keep sober, that is pure AV.

One decides to not drink ever again and never change their mind on that decision, and uses AVRT in order to separate from the Beast. "Using" AVRT in the absence of a BP is "relapse prevention" , basically pure AV.

Having the desire to drink or become intoxicated isn't what causes one to drink, continue the addiction , listening to and not separating from the AV does.
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Old 09-11-2017, 01:09 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Your "Seriously?" and all the feelings behind that response is 110% hardcore Addictive Voice!

Of course 'seriously'. You don't have to give actual names of people or locations. It's easy to answer without compromising your privacy.
My "Seriously?" was a genuine question as it was my understanding of AVRT that it doesn't really matter what my thoughts and feelings were 10 minutes before I drank, the problem is that I failed to recognise the Addictive Voice or that I recognised the Addictive Voice and chose to drink anyway. Whether I felt stressed/anxious/depressed/happy or any feeling or external circumstance whatsoever is largely irrelevant, as the BP means not drinking under ANY circumstance or feeling. I know why I drank and I know that it was an immoral decision. I have no confusion about that.

My original post is more about how to deal with professionals still in the 'recoveryism' mindset. I've since decided on a course of action and need no further advice. I'll re-read Rational Recovery.
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Old 09-11-2017, 01:16 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Hi LonelyShadow, I'm glad you're here and posting.

Prior to drinking decades ago, I experienced anxiety. Fear of X, y and z. Of course, my brain then learnt that alcohol would banish those feelings and I'd feel better, temporarily, Dutch courage I suppose. The years rolled on and as I climbed the career ladder, I experienced more stress.....cue alcohol - because I'd taught my sub-conscious brain that alcohol either made me feel better or provided relief from the irritable feelings. Then the Booze Beast of AVRT was born, a rogue, ego-alien, survival drive.

I'm now just over a year sober and like you've said, I was told I suffered from depression, but no, the depression was caused by alcohol and I no longer suffer from it. Anxiety, as you say, may be separate and amenable to treatment.

I believe GerandTwine wishes to assist you. As I learnt AVRT, even after making my Big Plan GT could pinpoint AV in my posts. He means well and I've benefitted greatly from his experience.
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Old 09-11-2017, 01:51 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Thank you Tatsy,

I found that when I stopped drinking my 'depression' disappeared so I knew it was purely the alcohol causing it. I'd had anxiety since childhood and it remained when I stopped drinking so I believe I may suffer from an anxiety disorder. But AVRT and RR has taught me not to blame anxiety for drinking, and that has been a hugely liberating experience. However I find with some amusement that everyone around me is adamant my drinking was 'caused' by some 'underlying issues' even when I'm telling them flat out that no, it's my fault and no one and nothing else can 'cause' drinking. I can hear AV in their voices.

I will seek some help for the anxiety but I see it as a separate problem entirely.

(And thank you GT I do appreciate your input)
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Old 09-11-2017, 02:06 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Awesome and good luck working on the anxiety .

What are your plans for future alcohol consumption?
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Old 09-11-2017, 02:19 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Awesome and good luck working on the anxiety .

What are your plans for future alcohol consumption?
I will never drink again, and I will never change my mind.
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Old 09-11-2017, 02:31 PM   #17 (permalink)
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That's an awesome plan
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Old 09-11-2017, 02:53 PM   #18 (permalink)
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That's an awesome plan
Thanks for your help
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Old 09-11-2017, 07:16 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonleyShadow
My "Seriously?" was a genuine question as it was my understanding of AVRT that it doesn't really matter what my thoughts and feelings were 10 minutes before I drank, the problem is that I failed to recognise the Addictive Voice or that I recognised the Addictive Voice and chose to drink anyway.
The above is still all AV. To report that you drank and got drunk for five days after one year of practicing AVRT with a Big Plan displays at best a complete misunderstanding of what AVRT is, what the Big Plan is, and how important the Big Plan is to AVRT. The obvious purpose of reporting also upon what was going on with you in those important ten minutes before you had that first drink after one year is to allow you to recognize your misunderstanding. Following that report, you will also find it impossible to make the following statement again with a straight face.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneleyShadow
Do I make my Big Plan again, or had I just failed to stick to my original Big Plan?
Anyone knows perfectly well all about how sincere they are about their Big Plan, and just how many Big Plans can be made for any particular addiction - ONE by simple definition of "never again"

You say "...the problem is I failed..." this or that. No, the problem is you are unwilling to acknowledge that you succeeded magnificently in drinking some more for five days, experiencing that wonderful orgasmic deep pleasure, and are now using your wits to make the fallout as minimal as possible.

You see, that's another reason for the ten minutes' pre drinking revelation. After a year of not drinking, there are A LOT of forces in society helping you to rationally decide to have just a few little drinky-poos. "mmMMMM! AhhhHHHH. YES! I can always quit all over again."

With all that said, still, congratulations on now making your first and only Big Plan for alcohol. Seriously!
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Old 09-12-2017, 06:43 PM   #20 (permalink)
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There is no doubt in my mind that there was a shift in my drinking from "just liking to party and wanting a buzz" to actively drowning the misery and anxiety that had been created by life circumstances and exacerbated by drinking. Telling myself I only drank for the buzz would be a lie. I was motivated by a desire to escape suffering. Of that I have no doubt. And pretending that proclaiming "I will never drink again" would suffice without addressing my motivations behind drinking or considering my triggers (internal and external) would not have worked for me. I didn't do AA, a I didn't really do AVRT. I learned a few things from both, as well as CBT, mindfulness, shamanism, and more. And I'm not confused. I just didn't swallow any one method entirely. And I'm nearing four years clean and sober. Just saying...
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