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Old 09-12-2017, 07:53 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I just quit , walked away from booze. Decided I wouldn't talk myself into rationalizing drinking again . Realized all the self talk/thoughts about triggers and motivations were just excuses I had relied on to be internally 'comfortable' with getting drunk and justify in some way that it wasn't entirely my 'fault', I mean cmon I was miserable ,no way I was doing that on purpose, right?
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Old 09-13-2017, 02:10 AM   #22 (permalink)
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For myself I'd say that the primary reason I drank was always for the buzz. It usually felt that it was something else though, usually that drinking would enhance the enjoyment of being with friends, of watching a film or that it would help relieve stress and aid relaxation.

These are all different forms of pleasure so I'd say that my conscious reason to drink was pleasure. But, as we know, drink doesn't really give pleasure - if it did then the more you drink the more pleasure you would get ad infinitum. So I really drank for a different reason, and this was for the buzz or the 'deep pleasure' as it's sometimes called in AVRT.
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Old 09-13-2017, 02:58 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Okay thank you for your input everyone.

GT, you have a very direct way of speaking that seems to directly enrage my Beast. So I have no doubt you are on to something.

It took me some time to process your words, and I realised the truth in much of what you are saying. It is a bitter pill to swallow to recall that yes, in the ten minutes before drinking, I thought "To hell with the consequences I can just recover all over again" and very selfishly sought out deep pleasure. But I can see now why you wanted me to see this, so thank you. Please understand that I thought you were asking me to rationalise my decision to drink i.e 10 minutes before i was anxious, so wanted to numb the pain, 8 minutes before i was stressed so needed to calm down. Which is why I questioned it, I know now is not the purpose of that exercise.

RR and AVRT can be seemingly cold and harsh and I think that's intended to strip away excuses so you can see your AV more clearly. That being said, I find that during periods of stress, anxiety, depression etc etc that the AV can become much louder, much fiercer and more persuasive. My understanding of AVRT and the BP is that you have made a firm commitment to never drink NO MATTER WHAT. Regardless of how much mental pain you may be in. So although seeking help for mental health problems is certainly a wise thing to do, treating those conditions does not 'cure' the alcohol problem.

It's interesting reading everyone's various approaches. I think for me it's the BP and nothing else. (Although I am interested in the Shamanism that was mentioned?!)
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Old 09-13-2017, 04:43 AM   #24 (permalink)
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"Cold and harsh" to the Beast, discrete and laser like focused, unapologetically stripped to essentials for You

Cold and harsh suggest a remoteness , a separation , bad things for the Beast, which by the way has access to all your vocabulary and connotations , baffling, cunning
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Old 09-13-2017, 05:21 AM   #25 (permalink)
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As I learnt AVRT, my Beast detested it's cold and harsh approach. It wanted sympathy, hand-holding, lots of hugs, smileys and attention. I once had a Beast-led hissy-fit , here on SR, because someone didn't 'thumbs-up' my post. I kid you not, how shameful.

The trouble was, I'd tried the support and sympathy route, but it didn't work for me. In fact, it gave my Beast additional ammunition to prompt me to drink more, because, I was an 'alcoholic', with 'underlying issues', 'a hole in my soul' etc., so it wasn't my fault that I couldn't stop drinking....'poor me, poor me, pour me another drink' it said. And I did.

On reflection, the reason I started drinking was for pleasure, which may take many forms: heightening or dulling or avoidance or relief from thoughts, feelings and emotions. The addicted part of my brain sought to make me feel better, even though I was to be sacrificed for the rapidly diminishing 'pleasure'.

Towards the end of my drinking history, the first drink taken in the morning staved off the withdrawals. Although it didn't feel much like pleasure, it was pleasure in the form of relief, in that the alcohol was operant in the same pleasure centre parts of my brain, as it was decades ago when I was just an occasional drinker.

The addicted part of my brain cannot rationalise, the Beast, lives only in the 'now', hellbent on instant gratification, pleasure. After drinking my daily three bottles of wine, I'd swear at night that I'd taper tomorrow and stop drinking, yet the next day.......I'd drink. It was madness. But as I read the research into the process of addiction in my brain, I viewed it as a pre-set, habituated program, drink, drink, drink, without logic or reasoning, no matter what the repercussions. To counter it, the BP of AVRT is premised upon the same logic, don't drink no matter what.
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Old 09-13-2017, 05:59 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dwtbd View Post
I just quit , walked away from booze. Decided I wouldn't talk myself into rationalizing drinking again . Realized all the self talk/thoughts about triggers and motivations were just excuses I had relied on to be internally 'comfortable' with getting drunk and justify in some way that it wasn't entirely my 'fault', I mean cmon I was miserable ,no way I was doing that on purpose, right?
I never saw triggers and motivations as "excuses," but rather part of utilizing awareness to avoid falling into the same traps.
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Old 09-13-2017, 06:20 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Feeling it's too late

the beast has been telling me that since I lost my job, license and publicly humiliated myself at age 60, there is no point in going on. I thought I had conquered this, but the past few days it keeps seeping in. Just had to write this down. Feel very sad right now, yet I am sober.
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Old 09-13-2017, 07:16 AM   #28 (permalink)
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We never conquer it in the sense that we no longer hear this voice. Winning is in allowing our AV to be there whenever it so happens to be there without trying to push it away or entering into a debate or commentary on it. Don't get hard on yourself because we can't control thoughts like you describe.

If you are still sober then you are winning - if you can identify any feelings of failure that you are still experiencing AV as just more AV then you will be winning with a smile on your face
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Old 09-13-2017, 08:10 AM   #29 (permalink)
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I never saw triggers and motivations as "excuses," but rather part of utilizing awareness to avoid falling into the same traps.
I suppose I did roughly the same thing, untethered the connotation of trap from a call for more booze and dismissed them.
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Old 09-13-2017, 08:33 AM   #30 (permalink)
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...no way I was doing that on purpose, right?
Yeah, I've puzzled over that on/off the past seven years, though not much anymore since it doesn't matter and I'll probably never understand it anyways. It was deliberate, certainly, since I chose to drink myself into chemical dependency and continue to drink while racking up negative consequences. But the rational logical part of my brain wasn't driving it, in fact it was colluding with an irrational illogical part to deny and repackage what was going on. It's hard to understand what "on purpose" means in the context of deep chemical dependency, but the person who downed those drinks sure doesn't feel like the person typing these words.
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Old 09-13-2017, 08:39 AM   #31 (permalink)
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untethered the connotation of trap from a call for more booze and dismissed them.
Beautifully put! I found this central to AVRT. When I fully ingrained into my brain, the notion that once my Big Plan was made, I'd never encounter or suffer any more conceptual triggers, ever (because triggers are simply Beast tools, heard as AV) I was home and dry and a non-drinker for life: no matter what.
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Old 09-13-2017, 08:59 AM   #32 (permalink)
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The Addictive Voice easily negotiates with addicted people who know that they are using just for the pleasure; Pleasure = two steps forward, Bad Consequences = one step backwards, still worth doing.

For people who still believe their brain is like an explosive device with concealed hair "triggers" the Addictive Voice doesn't even have to negotiate. IT is what has burdened them with that ridiculous analogy to begin with.
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Old 09-13-2017, 09:27 AM   #33 (permalink)
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... RR and AVRT can be seemingly cold and harsh and I think that's intended to strip away excuses so you can see your AV more clearly. ...
RR and AVRT do point out the importance of taking on the direct hit of personal responsibility, but I think it is not you, but the Beast that feels the harsh chill of impending death. The alternative of terminally wallowing within the diseased trigger prone paradigm so popular with the excuse making industries is what sends through me that harsh chill of concern for people trapped there within.

From the very beginning of my learning about RR and AVRT, I have felt a warm sense of commonality, compassion, and even love for what has gone into making it the program that it became and is still becoming.

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Old 09-13-2017, 12:45 PM   #34 (permalink)
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It was a big turning point for me too when I realized the only reason I was drinking was for pleasure, even if was to make myself feel better from uncomfortable experiences or emotions, that's still pleasure seeking. And that is a normal part of being alive, we all seek pleasure and avoid pain. All of the talk about triggers and character faults and inner voids was BS and AV. The hardest part was seeing how my AV used my emotions as an excuse for more drinks, feelings of fear or anhedonia or sadness, it felt like me, but really it was my addiction talking because the cure was always a tall boy of Grolsch. Having faults and inner scars are inescapable facts of life, if fixing those parts of me becomes a requirement for sobriety then I would feel doomed. I remember when I used to go to meetings, not just AA, but WFS or out-patient, and I would always feel so confused and guilty and hopeless. I am eternally grateful for RR! Something logical and focused and sane. A how to manual for the answer to how to quit drinking for life. Cut and dry and effective.
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:41 PM   #35 (permalink)
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cut and run, dry
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:55 PM   #36 (permalink)
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cut and run, dry
Haha! Exactly!
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Old 09-13-2017, 07:33 PM   #37 (permalink)
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cut and run, dry
OMG, You did it! You came up with the e=mc2 of beating addiction and endless recovery! Totally compatible with AVRT.
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Old 09-14-2017, 01:15 AM   #38 (permalink)
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the beast has been telling me that since I lost my job, license and publicly humiliated myself at age 60, there is no point in going on. I thought I had conquered this, but the past few days it keeps seeping in. Just had to write this down. Feel very sad right now, yet I am sober.
I hope you're not still feeling that way, Awake! Doors have been slammed in your face but you can kick down some other doors, too! If you keep to the Big Plan and never drink again you will regain control of your life.
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I realized I could probably go on drinking like this for maybe two or three more years, or live for another two or three decades...but not both. Suddenly the choice became crystal clear.
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Old 09-14-2017, 02:45 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Thank you for your post. I am feeling better and know that I will never drink again. Still alot of beauty to find. this site is helping so much.
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Old 09-14-2017, 02:50 AM   #40 (permalink)
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That's great news, Awake. It is certainly never too late. Your flowers will be blooming next year and you will too!
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