Behappy1

Just checking in to see how everybody's doing! I am not fully done with the RR book. I'm about 2/3 through and honestly felt things a little redundant. I will get through it though. What were the most helpful chapters for you in the book? I really liked the first 1/4 so far the best.

dwtbd

hey behappy1, almost couldn't hear you over the cacophony of crickets

Regardless of your progress with the book, have you quit or are you still quitting ?

Behappy1

Yes, still doing well! I will get through the book, hopefully it picks back up for me. Was reading through some old threads and saw a lot of posters that I don't see on this board much anymore. Hopefully it's because everyone is doing well.

dwtbd

Good to hear , and yes I prefer to make the same assumption about others' absence (s)
So... quit(full stop)? or working up to it ?

Behappy1

Full stop - I cannot do this anymore. I've lost too much. I have given too much time and energy to alcohol. My AV has been predominant for FAR too long. I've had too many day 1's.

dwtbd

Congratulations, great to hear!

As to the op, I read the book but not sure if any particular chapter or chapters were more significant than others. for me.

Reading through threads here highlighted some ideas that I may have not noticed on my own reading.

Making a Big Plan is really the most important 'thing', anything else is the details, if or when I get to hammering out the nuances is not nearly as important, and the brutal logic of the BP ensures that is not really a problem , in and of itself

Onwards !!

AlericB

I made my Big Plan not feeling 100% certain that it was really what I wanted to do but I thought how can you make yourself 100% committed - is that even possible and how can you possible tell if you're there? I suspected that if I strained hard enough, and I would I know!, I would always being able to find some reticence and wavering.

So I decided to just go ahead and make it anyway. The phrase "I will never drink in the present moment" works best for me because of the mindfulness connotation. When I stopped smoking several years ago something similar to this (I hadn't heard of AVRT then) was all I needed but with drinking I also need to consciously recognise and separate from the AV whenever it arises.

And the 100% that does make sense to me is to arbitrarily assign myself 100% confidence that I will always do this. The Big Plan was the big moment though.

dwtbd

" I will never drink in the present moment" is a concept I use/used and realize I have the power to maintain. My BP created the separation necessary to end the addiction. I have arbitrarily accepted the idea that 'alcohol' has no power over me,physical proximity doesn't/won't shake that confidence. I have poured wine and bourbon , served open beers to guests , the physical sensations of handling alcoholic beverages can be/are welcome 'shifting' exercises, I fully accept the concept that nothing can 'make' me drink.
The usual companion phrase attached to a BP is the one that 'feels' scarier. " I will never change my mind", but any doubt is the AV and therefore separable and dismissed, but still that it is , the rub. Not mentioning it doesn't make it less of a rub.

ChloeRose63

New to this thread called "Secular" but, I heard alittle 'noise' in the quiet. Could someone tell me about the book refered to as RR? Thanks.

dwtbd

Rational Recovery: The New Cure For Substance Addiction by J Trimpey

freshstart57

Welcome ChloeRose63! There is a lot of support here for you.

AlericB

Welcome Chloe too!

When I read that bit I thought you were going to say "all over me like a shower". I must feel that confident that you would enjoy the ultimate shifting exercise with ease!

I don't usually add "and will never change my mind" either because that seems to be implied by saying never again. Although it does emphasise the point that drinking again would entail a change of mind, which wouldn't be the case with "one day at a time".

dwtbd

" I will never drink again , and I will never change my mind" <-- that is my BP , my AV wants me to add "unfortunately" here, but IT would , yeah ? Not unfortunately I will never drink again, but that I feel the statement about changing my mind is necessary as an adjunct. My AV wants me to feel that adding it is 'proof' that I may waiver to keep my resolve.

My wife is a wine drinker, I' hate(d)' wine , I used to drink hers all the time though, it was a nice supplement to keep the'visible' supply of my favorite beverages from dwindling too quickly. Fortunately , she prefers red so dark bottles and large ones mean the levels don't appear to change too drastically to the casual observer, lol. Obviously she knew I drank and wouldn't have minded if I drank wine but for some reason I thought I needed to keep at least some secrets, like the bottles of bourbon in the closet , in the shed, and hidden in the garage and sneaking out empties, man do I not miss any of that .
Point being , I was shifting from the get go, shifting is a 'simple' technique to use to identify the Beast, you inferred 'ease'. Nonetheless the confidence is predicated on the 'adjunct' and not technically an adjunct( adjunct being a sometimes nonessential addition) but a principle element, ie any doubt is AV.

My BP is a plan I designed and implimented, it's the plan the Beast will never be resigned to, but I don't care. F888 the Beast

LBrain

Crickets? haha, it never gets old. I have 3 1/2 years and change, not sure exactly, but quitting at the end of the year helps in knowing when. When I quit, I said I was never going to drink again. About 3 months later I discovered AVRT, and I did the 'short course' or whatever it is called. I really liked it. It was then I added, "And I will never change my mind." I got my PHD and never looked back. Don't hold yourself back by refusing to say, "I will never change my mind." If you know you need to quit for good, why continue to doubt it. That is how I look at it. I know I should never drink again, why kid myself in thinking that maybe one day, just maybe... When you think like that, you are not fully committed and you are leaving the door open. Close that door! And lock it.

AlericB

I'm not at all saying that you shouldn't finalise a Big Plan by adding the words "and I will never change my mind". It's not that I think that this casts doubt on the first part of the BP ("I will never drink again") by suggesting that it isn't sufficient by itself, I just don't see what it adds.

I don't feel my BP of "I will never drink in the present moment" leaves any doors open.

MythOfSisyphus

Sorry folks! I was out of the state for about a week and a half and now I'm getting ready to move to another home in another state. Busy busy busy! Once I get moved to my new digs I'll be back to reading & posting here more regularly.

Wholesome

Hey all! I've been good and busy. There doesn't seem to be enough hours in the day to get everything that I want to get done, done. I've come to a place where I don't think about how I'm not drinking all the time, which is nice, real freedom from the whole debacle. I feel like it's really truly over and I can focus my time and energy on other things. There are so many possibilities now that my whole world doesn't revolve around my next drunk or recovering from one. I have that ACE effect and it's a powerful feeling.

I got to share how I quit with a friend of mine last weekend. When I was finished explaining to him about how AVRT works and the AV and the BP, he said, yeah but I don't think I could say forever, and I said, that's your AV!

I think saying I will never change my mind is an important part of the BP because it immediately shuts down any suggestions the AV tries to make. And no matter what takes care of events or situations that could happen.

AlericB

That's great. Debacle describes it beautifully!

I'm starting to feel the same too. A sense of freedom thanks to an increasingly habitual response to recognise and dismiss any thoughts of missing drinking or future drinking (and, perhaps I should add, of any thoughts that I might change my mind!).

I haven't noticed the ACE spoken about much here and I'd be interested to hear of anyone's personal experience of this. Not so much for encouragement but more that it may help me to recognise my own ACE experiences.

Behappy1

I've not heard of ACE either?? Do tell zenchaser!

Wholesome

The Abstinence Commitment Effect or ACE is written about in the RR book. For me it's a feeling of confidence and security in myself. It's hard to describe, for example when I was out last weekend, I was around people drinking and it didn't faze me in the slightest, I'm totally at ease around alcohol. The feeling comes from the my core, and it's just a feeling of being comfortable in my own skin and a feeling of freedom. The obsession is gone and there's peace inside me now. It's hard to describe though.

I'd be interested in hearing others experiences of the ACE effect too.