Why you're told to Knock it off.
 

I noticed some posts complaining about the Secular Connection rules. I'm going to give you a little history so you'll understand.

The SR forums started out as 12 step forums. We started getting secular members who were trying to fit in and it was an uphill battle for them. The problem began when we were invaded by RR trolls who came over from the RR forums and they were cruel and horrible. We lost a lot of members over it and all of the forums were in a constant state of debate. They even hit the family and friends forums.

The owner at the time went over to the RR forum to discuss the problem with the members and Mr. T got involved with the Anti AA talk and on and on.

After that calmed down I felt really bad for the secular members here and opened the Secular Forums. That was a real challenge because the RR trolls had turned everyone against 12 step alternatives and AVRT and I had an uphill battle ahead opening a secular forum. It had a really rough start and the entire forum was a debate forum for topics of AA vs RR. It got so bad I had to shut the forum down for a few days so everyone would calm down.

That is when the rule was created that AA was off topic for Secular Connections. It was the ONLY way to solve the problem. I worked very hard for 3 years to keep this forum open.

The RR members here only knew how to discuss AVRT by bashing AA. I kept pleading with them to discuss AVRT in a positive way and tell others how it works for them. They just couldn't do it. All they could do is tell others why AA is bad.

Finally Terminally Unique was able to do it and he created the wonderful threads explaining AVRT. freshstart57 created the "Explaining AVRT" thread. I so appreciate what they did. Members were finally able to understand AVRT and that has helped so many here.

I understand that a part of RR is deprogramming and I hope you'll understand that we can't do that here.

Thanks MorningGlory,
That may create a fine line between what is appropriate and what is not. Would you be willing to take a few of my posts as examples of what might be ok and what might no longer be ok?
Thanks,
GerandTwine

Thank you for allowing us to have this place, it has changed my life.

Thank you, Morning Glory, for all of your efforts.

As moderator of this forum it shouldn't be hard for me to log in and not see the following

1) bashing other members or claiming they are prone to drink because they don't follow your method of recovery.

2) Making a thread about general recovery into a thread about your program and how its the only way to stay sober.

I didn't change any rules. They are still the same. 12 step topics are against the forum rules. Talking about 12 step groups without naming them by name is the same. It's fine if you want to discuss it in PMs and deprogram that way.
This also keeps the forum a safe place for the secular members so the 12 step members can't come in and debate and hijack the threads.

You can answer questions without bashing and talk about things that don't work when using AVRT. It's hard for me to come up with examples because I don't use either. These might be wrong examples, but you can say when using AVRT you don't count days because the Big Plan is forever, or you don't meet in groups because....., or there is no such thing as relapse, or you don't have to take inventory because...., or you don't need to rely on a higher power. This is breaking it down into details without bashing the group that teaches the methods. Focus on the details and not the group and do it without trying to prove the other method wrong.

Thanks to the Moderators for all they do!

I appreciate this, because I have been repeatedly attacked for having an eclectic and personal approach.

I can also share that I got shut out for a few days (quite a while ago), not because I was doing either of the above, but for simply bashing AA. I understand now that such talk can be a threat to those new to sobriety. It occurs to me that some folks may feel threatened simply by reading a thread like the one that focuses on a free exchange of various approaches. In other words, when a person has a rigid attachment to a particular approach, anything that appears to question that approach can seem threatening, and thus lead to attacks. However, censoring free exchange about what works for you would make the forums pretty pointless on a certain level.

I admire the administrators' efforts to create a balance, and to warn people that direct (and especially relentless) attacks of any kind are not welcome. It also never occurred to me that some could actually be trolls, but that makes sense. Thanks.

bumpity bump bump bump

Rr? Avrt?

H Stephengb and welcome to SR and Secular Connections. RR is Rational Recovery and AVRT is its method of recovery, Addictive Voice Recognition Technique. If you are interested in learning about it, there are many threads here, with AVRT in the title.

AVRT Threads
 

See:

1. AVRT and Rational Recovery - Google search of SR Forums
   
   
2. Forum threads tagged with AVRT
   
   
3. Forum threads tagged with Rational Recovery