AVRT Crash Course
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: London, England
Posts: 7,059
Hi Tatsy I have had another couple of slips which really worries me plus I feel embarrassed posting it.
In total I have drunk 4 bottles of wine in 3 weeks, so hugely better than before as that would be my daily intake but obviously I want total abstinence and to be recovered with the ARVT mindset.
I am still reading lots of threads and practising my seperation thinking but clearly for me at this point there is a clink in my armour!
Thanks for checking in with me,
In total I have drunk 4 bottles of wine in 3 weeks, so hugely better than before as that would be my daily intake but obviously I want total abstinence and to be recovered with the ARVT mindset.
I am still reading lots of threads and practising my seperation thinking but clearly for me at this point there is a clink in my armour!
Thanks for checking in with me,
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Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,654
Dear Kaily, thank you for posting. 
Please don't feel ashamed, the Beast will only use shame against you.....and then suggest to cure the shame, you should buy another bottle.
You are still learning AVRT and practising the separation of 'you and your thoughts' from the Beast's single track thought.....drink, drink drink! You are clearly succeeding at this separation and have done very well indeed.
Algorithm has written a great post on the main AVRT six part thread, in reply to Zenchaser.
Kaily, when you feel that your understanding of AVRT is thorough, your Big Plan may be made. I hesitated and worried, after all, for years, I swore every day that I wouldn't drink the next. I also knew that if and when I made a Big Plan, it would be written in stone and I would never drink again. I was petrified, what if I made the BP and then drank, I'd fall apart, lose the last chance I had to become securely abstinent.
But, when the time came and I made my Big Plan, I felt such relief that the drinking part of my life was over, plus the BP actually made my recognition of the Beast easier.
The Big Plan seemed to wrestle the final remnant of power from out of the Beast's grubby little paws, and place it fully back in my hands.
Please keep reading, practising the excercises and posting. You CAN do this Kaily. You've made fantastic progress already, really awesome
.
Please don't feel ashamed, the Beast will only use shame against you.....and then suggest to cure the shame, you should buy another bottle.You are still learning AVRT and practising the separation of 'you and your thoughts' from the Beast's single track thought.....drink, drink drink! You are clearly succeeding at this separation and have done very well indeed.
Algorithm has written a great post on the main AVRT six part thread, in reply to Zenchaser.
Kaily, when you feel that your understanding of AVRT is thorough, your Big Plan may be made. I hesitated and worried, after all, for years, I swore every day that I wouldn't drink the next. I also knew that if and when I made a Big Plan, it would be written in stone and I would never drink again. I was petrified, what if I made the BP and then drank, I'd fall apart, lose the last chance I had to become securely abstinent.
But, when the time came and I made my Big Plan, I felt such relief that the drinking part of my life was over, plus the BP actually made my recognition of the Beast easier.
The Big Plan seemed to wrestle the final remnant of power from out of the Beast's grubby little paws, and place it fully back in my hands.
Please keep reading, practising the excercises and posting. You CAN do this Kaily. You've made fantastic progress already, really awesome
.
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,109
The thing with AVRT is that you can't unknow it. Your thinking is forever changed. I learned about it 2 years ago and for 2 years everytime I drank I was fully aware that I was listening to my AV, but I just had to know if I could only drink on weekends and be ok with that. I wasn't done trying to control IT and make deals with IT. Crazy I know but I just wasn't ready. We all have our own journeys. I'm not suggesting that you continue drinking for 2 years or anything!! I'm just saying that now that you know it's only a matter of time. Your Beast is on notice that new management is taking over soon!
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: London, England
Posts: 7,059
An update.
Now that I read more stuff about AVRT I believe I have been having vertigo attacks. My AV seems to be with me more than it's not, that I can just about cope with but then on several occasions all sense end reason leaves me I feel like I am out of control in my bid for alcohol and I have ended up drinking.
This really concerns me as potentially it could lead me back to somewhere I don't want to go so I need to get better control.
I have read that recognizing and naming vertigo is helpful so I will be ready for the next attack.
I wake early about 4.30 most mornings with cravings for alcohol and feel like I am obsessing about it much of the day, I get brain fuzz from trying to separate when I am tired.
Any advice would be very much welcomed.
Now that I read more stuff about AVRT I believe I have been having vertigo attacks. My AV seems to be with me more than it's not, that I can just about cope with but then on several occasions all sense end reason leaves me I feel like I am out of control in my bid for alcohol and I have ended up drinking.
This really concerns me as potentially it could lead me back to somewhere I don't want to go so I need to get better control.
I have read that recognizing and naming vertigo is helpful so I will be ready for the next attack.
I wake early about 4.30 most mornings with cravings for alcohol and feel like I am obsessing about it much of the day, I get brain fuzz from trying to separate when I am tired.
Any advice would be very much welcomed.
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 98
Hi Kaily when I used to get attacks of "vertigo" I found grounding myself helped. As in, to drink the alcohol, I would have to go and get the alcohol, so I would say outloud the steps I was taking to get it, as I was doing it.
Example; IT felt like drinking and had a foothold. But being vertigo, the lines between me and IT were blurred
I would say ,"You are putting on your coat, YOU are looking for your keys, YOU are opening the door, YOU are locking the door, YOU are walking to the shop.
Always the "YOU" would bring me to my senses. Why was I talking about MYSELF as "you?"
Because, although the lines between me and IT were blurred, the seperation I had worked on was still there! IT could not refer to me as I anymore. It had been forced into the defencive position of the second person.
IT also tries to justify drinking by using the plural pronouns "us" and "we" as a way of speaking for both parties.
eg "We need a little drink" or "Let's get something at the shop"
This is known as Addiction Diction, and is easily spotted as the AV.
Example; IT felt like drinking and had a foothold. But being vertigo, the lines between me and IT were blurred
I would say ,"You are putting on your coat, YOU are looking for your keys, YOU are opening the door, YOU are locking the door, YOU are walking to the shop.
Always the "YOU" would bring me to my senses. Why was I talking about MYSELF as "you?"
Because, although the lines between me and IT were blurred, the seperation I had worked on was still there! IT could not refer to me as I anymore. It had been forced into the defencive position of the second person.
IT also tries to justify drinking by using the plural pronouns "us" and "we" as a way of speaking for both parties.
eg "We need a little drink" or "Let's get something at the shop"
This is known as Addiction Diction, and is easily spotted as the AV.
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: London, England
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I have lapsed!
I have lost control of the beast, he was gaining the power back bit by little bit but I was still aware and somewhat in control then yesterday I bought drink and hit the don't care button then went out for more this morning and cancelled my days plans to stay home and drink just like before.
Thing is I do care but seem to of lost all separation from the beast and his bark.
I have lost control of the beast, he was gaining the power back bit by little bit but I was still aware and somewhat in control then yesterday I bought drink and hit the don't care button then went out for more this morning and cancelled my days plans to stay home and drink just like before.
Thing is I do care but seem to of lost all separation from the beast and his bark.
quat
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: terra (mostly)firma
Posts: 4,823
Sorry to hear that Kaily.
Throw away what ever you have, switch to water and eat and get some rest.
Have you had a chance to get through the RR book , yet?
The Beast's power is an illusion, IT was not gaining anything there is nothing for IT to gain other than having ITs desire indulged , ITs supply supplied.
You hit the button, yeah? IT didn't succeed in getting more power , enough to make you go to the store. You ceded the power to an illusion, break the illusion, recognize IT separate from IT and dismiss IT.
You can do this, it is not about waiting for IT to go away or lose ITs power, IT doesn't have any, You do, use it.
Throw away what ever you have, switch to water and eat and get some rest.
Have you had a chance to get through the RR book , yet?
The Beast's power is an illusion, IT was not gaining anything there is nothing for IT to gain other than having ITs desire indulged , ITs supply supplied.
You hit the button, yeah? IT didn't succeed in getting more power , enough to make you go to the store. You ceded the power to an illusion, break the illusion, recognize IT separate from IT and dismiss IT.
You can do this, it is not about waiting for IT to go away or lose ITs power, IT doesn't have any, You do, use it.
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Thanks dwtbd.
Yes I have been reading the book, just a few pages a day. I also spend a lot of time reading old threads on here aswell.
So disappointed in myself and lack of self control.
Yes I have been reading the book, just a few pages a day. I also spend a lot of time reading old threads on here aswell.
So disappointed in myself and lack of self control.
quat
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: terra (mostly)firma
Posts: 4,823
Instead of continuing to feel disappointed and give the AV ammo to use , in the form of past regret and guilt. Empower yourself ( allow yourself to use the power You have in you).
Make Your BP , shatter ITs illusion, free yourself , you absolutely can. I didn't believe I actually could at one time. I needed to take a leap of faith , not taking that leap was the only thing holding me back. We all have the 'stuff' it takes to end the addiction, I had heard that , and thought well everyone else probably does, but I doubted it was in me , thought maybe I lacked something, some lack that was unique to me. It turned what I lacked was not having taken the leap, and once I did, I got it , it is true we All have it in us, you just have to let go of the nonbelief, not find it miraculously before, just let go of the idea that you can't , because you absolutely Can, rootin for ya !
Make Your BP , shatter ITs illusion, free yourself , you absolutely can. I didn't believe I actually could at one time. I needed to take a leap of faith , not taking that leap was the only thing holding me back. We all have the 'stuff' it takes to end the addiction, I had heard that , and thought well everyone else probably does, but I doubted it was in me , thought maybe I lacked something, some lack that was unique to me. It turned what I lacked was not having taken the leap, and once I did, I got it , it is true we All have it in us, you just have to let go of the nonbelief, not find it miraculously before, just let go of the idea that you can't , because you absolutely Can, rootin for ya !
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 98
Hi Kaily,
I think dwtbd is right. I don't want to sound harsh but at some point you are going to actually have to commit yourself to never drinking again.
AVRT is built around the Big Plan. You are fighting a turbo charged artificially created survival drive. IT is after the rewards (pleasure) of alcohol. You have to be just as committed to the rewards of never drinking again. Of course you feel the pleasure of drinking too, thats the reward of every survival drive that delivers the goods, false or not, to have the body and brain flooded with feel-good chemicals.
Say, you had a friend, that couldn't live without going into town and shop. She feels she will die if she doesn't do this as much as she can, life wouldn't be worth living.
She has to take you with her as she has no transport. Trouble is, every time you go with her, it has bad consequences for you.
It's taking up all of your time, disrupting your life. It's making you tired and ill, depressed, no money and making you think your life is not worth living!
Every time she wants to go into town, she manages to talk you around with "Let's do it, you know it feels good, think of those bright lit shops and shiny new things we can buy, you know you want to" But she doesn't know when to stop, she wants to do it all day every day
You try to tell her, it isn't what you want, argue with her, but she always manages to talk you around.
Do you get to the point where you tell her "If you ring again to go to town, I will hang up on you" Or do you say "Well, not now, I don't know maybe sometime in the future"
When she rings everyday to try and talk you into it, do you stand with the phone in your hand, wavering back and forth or do you hang up?
Do you get to the point, where as you have not said "I will never take you into town again and I will never change my mind" and hang up as soon as you recognize her voice, that she is ringing more often, as she is getting desperate and still thinks there's a chance you will transport her, as you haven't actually stood firm and said you will never do it again?
Or do you think, this friend is more than a little single minded and obsessed and doesn't care what these trips are doing to you, as long as she gets her way, so you cut ties with her and hit the "hang up" button as soon as her name appears on your phone?
I think dwtbd is right. I don't want to sound harsh but at some point you are going to actually have to commit yourself to never drinking again.
AVRT is built around the Big Plan. You are fighting a turbo charged artificially created survival drive. IT is after the rewards (pleasure) of alcohol. You have to be just as committed to the rewards of never drinking again. Of course you feel the pleasure of drinking too, thats the reward of every survival drive that delivers the goods, false or not, to have the body and brain flooded with feel-good chemicals.
Say, you had a friend, that couldn't live without going into town and shop. She feels she will die if she doesn't do this as much as she can, life wouldn't be worth living.
She has to take you with her as she has no transport. Trouble is, every time you go with her, it has bad consequences for you.
It's taking up all of your time, disrupting your life. It's making you tired and ill, depressed, no money and making you think your life is not worth living!
Every time she wants to go into town, she manages to talk you around with "Let's do it, you know it feels good, think of those bright lit shops and shiny new things we can buy, you know you want to" But she doesn't know when to stop, she wants to do it all day every day
You try to tell her, it isn't what you want, argue with her, but she always manages to talk you around.
Do you get to the point where you tell her "If you ring again to go to town, I will hang up on you" Or do you say "Well, not now, I don't know maybe sometime in the future"
When she rings everyday to try and talk you into it, do you stand with the phone in your hand, wavering back and forth or do you hang up?
Do you get to the point, where as you have not said "I will never take you into town again and I will never change my mind" and hang up as soon as you recognize her voice, that she is ringing more often, as she is getting desperate and still thinks there's a chance you will transport her, as you haven't actually stood firm and said you will never do it again?
Or do you think, this friend is more than a little single minded and obsessed and doesn't care what these trips are doing to you, as long as she gets her way, so you cut ties with her and hit the "hang up" button as soon as her name appears on your phone?
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: London, England
Posts: 7,059
Thanks Gary, I love the way you have explained that!
I do struggle with letting go of anything, a bad marriage where my husband repeatedly cheated on me, friends that just took from me when they needed until I was all used up then deserted me when I needed support, bad employers. The list goes on and on but I never seem to get angry enough to say no more, I always allow people back.
I have spent a lot of time thinking about this lately so it is very apt that you have used a similar scenario in your post.
A counsellor recently suggested it was due to abandonment issues that I have suffered since childhood that I can't let go of things good or bad.
When I first started trying AVRT some weeks ago I could definitely feel the separation but I can't now (I'm not under the influence) and when I try my beast just keeps changing in looks and character, its very hard to explain what I mean. I think maybe I have read so much on here about other peoples beasts that I am losing sight of my own.
Thanks again Gary
I do struggle with letting go of anything, a bad marriage where my husband repeatedly cheated on me, friends that just took from me when they needed until I was all used up then deserted me when I needed support, bad employers. The list goes on and on but I never seem to get angry enough to say no more, I always allow people back.
I have spent a lot of time thinking about this lately so it is very apt that you have used a similar scenario in your post.
A counsellor recently suggested it was due to abandonment issues that I have suffered since childhood that I can't let go of things good or bad.
When I first started trying AVRT some weeks ago I could definitely feel the separation but I can't now (I'm not under the influence) and when I try my beast just keeps changing in looks and character, its very hard to explain what I mean. I think maybe I have read so much on here about other peoples beasts that I am losing sight of my own.
Thanks again Gary
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 98
This self denying of putting others needs before your own could be an advantage.
Before separation and recognition the Beast is viewed as a survival need by you. You feel you must have that alcohol.
If you have always put others needs first at your own discomfort, remember this started out as one of your needs (albeit a rogue one)
You have already proven with relationships you can deny your own needs.
Once you separate this false "need" for alcohol from yourself through AVRT, you should have no trouble denying what has now become IT.
And recognising IT will come through making a Big Plan. As any thoughts, feelings or images which suggest drinking, or at the end of the road has drinking as a solution to ANYTHING is the AV
Before separation and recognition the Beast is viewed as a survival need by you. You feel you must have that alcohol.
If you have always put others needs first at your own discomfort, remember this started out as one of your needs (albeit a rogue one)
You have already proven with relationships you can deny your own needs.
Once you separate this false "need" for alcohol from yourself through AVRT, you should have no trouble denying what has now become IT.
And recognising IT will come through making a Big Plan. As any thoughts, feelings or images which suggest drinking, or at the end of the road has drinking as a solution to ANYTHING is the AV
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Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by GaryB1 
Hi Kaily The purpose of shifting is it is an exercise in recognizing what are your thoughts and feelings and what are ITs thoughts and feelings on drinking, thus helping you to seperate you from IT.
When imagining using let the Beast come out, it will like the thoughts of using it will "remember" the pleasure. Then you "switch" to you , you allow yourself to be disgusted by the vile stuff that poisoned you and held you prisoner in a chemical jail.
This difference you feel in the two attitudes helps you differentiation yourself from IT. This makes it easier, when the AV strikes to recognize them as Beast thoughts and feeling not yours
It's not you that can't remember the bad stuff about drinking and romanticising the first few sips it is IT. Remember, the Beast is nothing but a perverted survival drive it has no higher thinking functions. IT uses your higher thinking functions through the AV. It will only use your higher thinking functions though, to get you to give IT the alcohol. So when the AV uses your memory, it will only pick out the bits of memory which will persuade you to drink.
IT will bring up all the pleasant memories of drinking. IT is hardly likely to persuade you to drink if it pulls forward the memories of you puking in the bed, feeling ill, thinking you are going to die and feeling helpless and pathetic through drinking is it? So IT only pulls forward the pleasant feelings of drinking.
YOU are the one who has the full picture of the aftermath of a binge at your recall.
Once you can separate you from IT you will know, any pleasant thoughts feeling or images of drinking are coming from IT and IT is biased towards alcohol so will never show you the full picture. IT will use any and all of your all mental facilities, but only with the intention of of showing drinking in a GOOD light. IT needs that alcohol. IT is a perverted survival drive, IT thinks your body needs it to survive. But IT is mistaken.
YOU know the full picture, the alcohol will kill you. At the very least it will take away your life while you are still living (shudder)
So shifting, isn't allowing yourself to wallow in the joys of drinking, it's an exercise in recognizing the split between you and IT
Once you have yourself and the Beast separated in your mind, recognising ITs voice, the AV is easy.
When imagining using let the Beast come out, it will like the thoughts of using it will "remember" the pleasure. Then you "switch" to you , you allow yourself to be disgusted by the vile stuff that poisoned you and held you prisoner in a chemical jail.
This difference you feel in the two attitudes helps you differentiation yourself from IT. This makes it easier, when the AV strikes to recognize them as Beast thoughts and feeling not yours
It's not you that can't remember the bad stuff about drinking and romanticising the first few sips it is IT. Remember, the Beast is nothing but a perverted survival drive it has no higher thinking functions. IT uses your higher thinking functions through the AV. It will only use your higher thinking functions though, to get you to give IT the alcohol. So when the AV uses your memory, it will only pick out the bits of memory which will persuade you to drink.
IT will bring up all the pleasant memories of drinking. IT is hardly likely to persuade you to drink if it pulls forward the memories of you puking in the bed, feeling ill, thinking you are going to die and feeling helpless and pathetic through drinking is it? So IT only pulls forward the pleasant feelings of drinking.
YOU are the one who has the full picture of the aftermath of a binge at your recall.
Once you can separate you from IT you will know, any pleasant thoughts feeling or images of drinking are coming from IT and IT is biased towards alcohol so will never show you the full picture. IT will use any and all of your all mental facilities, but only with the intention of of showing drinking in a GOOD light. IT needs that alcohol. IT is a perverted survival drive, IT thinks your body needs it to survive. But IT is mistaken.
YOU know the full picture, the alcohol will kill you. At the very least it will take away your life while you are still living (shudder)
So shifting, isn't allowing yourself to wallow in the joys of drinking, it's an exercise in recognizing the split between you and IT
Once you have yourself and the Beast separated in your mind, recognising ITs voice, the AV is easy.
Reach Out and Touch Faith
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Originally Posted by BillyBlanks
Brilliant post and well explained to the layperson. thanks Gary.
I know I'm late to the party but welcome to Secular Connections.
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I'm back. Well I never actually went anywhere, I have been reading most days but haven't been posting as I have been totally immersed in my addiction and feeling beyond help. Plus I had some sort of mental breakdown around Christmas so things have been really tuff.
Anyway from somewhere I found the strength to yet again attempt to be sober and although it hasn't been easy, for nearly 7 weeks I thought I really had it, I was/am using AVRT.
Then at the weekend I was feeling really low and I drank, not a lot, regretted it and threw most of it away, but it was enough to reignite the want for more.
I resisted for 2 days then drank again last night. I am losing my grip again and I really do need some help urgently. It is 8am and I am obsessing about alcohol.
I am feeling very low and really vulnerable with no support, family or friends that want to know.
Anyway from somewhere I found the strength to yet again attempt to be sober and although it hasn't been easy, for nearly 7 weeks I thought I really had it, I was/am using AVRT.
Then at the weekend I was feeling really low and I drank, not a lot, regretted it and threw most of it away, but it was enough to reignite the want for more.
I resisted for 2 days then drank again last night. I am losing my grip again and I really do need some help urgently. It is 8am and I am obsessing about alcohol.
I am feeling very low and really vulnerable with no support, family or friends that want to know.
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Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,654
Hi Kaily, nearly seven weeks is a great start. I’m glad you’ve found the strength to begin again.
You say you’re using AVRT, but this Secular Connections forum has changed, because there were a few SR folks who posted here, objecting to the mention of AVRT so frequently. Consequently, a new AVRT only forum is below this one: Permanent Abstinence Based Recovery, plus a new secular forum, below that.
Since the change, posting has dropped off and the posters that raised the issue of AVRT dominance, have also stopped posting.
If you’re still interested in AVRT, I would suggest that you post in the forum below this: Permanent Abstinence Based Recovery.
But for now, you are not alone and I care about what happens to you and your dogs.
You say you’re using AVRT, but this Secular Connections forum has changed, because there were a few SR folks who posted here, objecting to the mention of AVRT so frequently. Consequently, a new AVRT only forum is below this one: Permanent Abstinence Based Recovery, plus a new secular forum, below that.
Since the change, posting has dropped off and the posters that raised the issue of AVRT dominance, have also stopped posting.
If you’re still interested in AVRT, I would suggest that you post in the forum below this: Permanent Abstinence Based Recovery.
But for now, you are not alone and I care about what happens to you and your dogs.
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