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AVRT Crash Course

Old 04-05-2017, 10:08 AM
  # 61 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Tatsy View Post
Zen, please don't let it eat away at you, that's what IT wants. You didn't go into vertigo completely, you stopped at a couple of sips and immediately reaffirmed your Big Plan.

The way I see this incident, which will never happen again, is you've now made a Big Plan that is firmly set in stone, forever. Please go forwards, with no recriminations, no self-doubt; for those thoughts are the fodder the Beast thrives on and will force -feed you, in order to go on to suggest a drink as a solution.

This episode is firmly behind you. As you've stated "You will never drink again, and you will never change your mind".
You are absolutely right. That's the attitude I need to have with this. I stood at the edge but I didn't jump off. I pulled myself back. I need to learn from it and move on.
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Old 04-05-2017, 10:18 AM
  # 62 (permalink)  
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Zen I know you can , and I believe you will, hope you do too.

Another take away form this could be to shut the door on the AV on the whole idea of being 'early' in your BP.

In a couple posts about your trip, your AV kept reminding you how 'early' it was and therefore how nearly impossible sticking to a BP such a trip (insert anything here) is 'going' to be , you know so early and all.
Arbitrarily set your confidence level at 100% from second, minute , or day one any thing else is AV and can be dismissed, full stop. You absolutely got this( any thing else is AV )
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Old 04-05-2017, 10:31 AM
  # 63 (permalink)  
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dwtbd you are right, IT was doing that, using time as an excuse. I didn't see it at the time but I see it now. My AV uses time against me a lot. The thoughts of drinking are easy to spot and dismiss. IT's use of my emotions/ memories and IT's use of time are trickier for me to recognize.
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Old 04-05-2017, 10:37 AM
  # 64 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by zenchaser View Post
As I was standing there I was aware of the fact that I was doing the shifting technique and I allowed all the thoughts to happen, and with relief, I handed the beer off to my bf. It felt like a test and afterward my AV was quiet.
I believe that you failed to recognize the AV behind this "test" idea. The Beast would love for you to think of the Big Plan as an experiment, an endless series of "tests" to see how it goes not drinking -- but no guarantees.

The idea of a "test" is the AV, the very same mentality that is behind the "just for today" tentative abstinence scheme. That "sense of relief" is also the AV, because it is essentially anxiety over the possibility of 'failing' the test. It all points to the possibility drinking some more alcohol.

The cardinal rule of addiction is "never say never" to the possible future use of alcohol and other drugs, and so the Beast seeks ways to retain the precious Option to drink or use some more in the future.

Originally Posted by zenchaser View Post
I obviously need more practice or else I'm not doing it right because once that happened for a few minutes I was not in control or at least I didn't feel like I was. It did feel like my beast pounced on me.
This feeling that you need "more practice" before you figure out precisely how to not swallow any more alcohol is a variation of the "test" idea, and is Addictive Voice. Not swallowing any more alcohol is about not doing anything at all, about not taking any action whatsoever.

A large part of the AV's smoke screen, which keeps the addiction alive, is the illusion that not doing anything requires effort and practice. How much effort does not doing anything at all require?

Originally Posted by zenchaser View Post
Once I come back to my senses my AV quieted right down again, there haven't been any real cravings. I didn't want to drink at the time of the incident and I don't want to now.
What if there were real cravings?

What then? Would you drink?

Whose problem would those cravings be?

Your problem, or your Beast's problem?

Originally Posted by zenchaser View Post
I did toy with thoughts of drinking in the lobby with that beer in hand, I even smelled it, part of me really wanted it, the part that is angry that the party is over forever, that is fearful.
There is absolutely no separation here, zenchaser. Your Beast toyed with thoughts of drinking in the lobby, and IT is angry that the party is over, and IT fears a lifetime of deprivation of ITs precious stuff.

If I may borrow a snippet from an explanation by tursiops999 in another thread:

Originally Posted by tursiops999 View Post
... recognizing is the key -- recognizing and "dissociating", but not suppressing or arguing. The beast and it's bark are going to continue to exist...

It wants to meld it's identity with mine. My job is to recognize when it's trying to do that, and remember who I am.
See: Melding

Originally Posted by zenchaser View Post
I should not be going into it wondering if I will win the debate. I shouldn't be allowing the debate to go on in the first place.
When the Beast pipes up and feels deprived, that is not your problem, but, rather, the Beast's problem. The Beast will argue both sides of all arguments anyway, and the conversation will never end, so don't converse with the prisoner. The "R" in AVRT stands for recognition, not reasoning against.

Separation is the key.

Originally Posted by zenchaser View Post
I could feel my confidence in my ability to stay sober eroding almost as soon as we landed and beers were being handed out... But after I didn't drink said beer I really felt like I had it! I was so proud of myself and kept marveling at the fact that I wasn't consumed with the obsession and that I was really genuinely enjoying myself..... until that damn virgin cocktail.
I would question just where the idea of a "virgin" cocktail came from in the first place, since very few never-drinkers would ever consider drinking such a concoction. This "marveling" thing, however, is definitely the AV.

The Beast would love for you to "marvel" at the fact that you didn't swallow any alcohol, and it were a miracle that you didn't do anything at all, and that the big, bad Beast was not stirring much, as if you were powerless before the Beast to control the peripherals (hands, feet, mouth).

Regarding your confidence eroding, the Beast will say "sure, you can say that you'll never drink again NOW, but you just wait, I'll get you THEN." If you realize that "I will never drink again" is the same thing as "I will never drink in the present moment," however, then this Beast ploy can be neutralized.

See: Static Time

Originally Posted by zenchaser View Post
There's nothing I can do now except for keep moving forward.
Don't sell yourself short, zenchaser, which would only serve the Beast. You can do much better than to simply keep moving forward. You can actually end this, once and for all.

Originally Posted by Jack Trimpey
AVRT Axiom:

The function of the Addictive Voice is to grossly exaggerate the difficulty and suffering that discontinuing your vice will cause.

Corollary:

Ending your addiction is precisely as difficult as you decide it will be, and will take exactly as long as you permit.
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Old 04-05-2017, 11:24 AM
  # 65 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sunshine72 View Post
I re-read everything, will you please improvise? thank you
The idea that if you don't stand guard, always looking over your shoulder and watching out for the big, bad Beast, which is doing push-ups, waiting to pounce and get you, is one of the most elemental forms of relapse anxiety. So is the idea that you must be very careful, or you'll inexplicably explode into drunkenness, as if you didn't control the peripherals.

The idea in AVRT is to live comfortably and naturally in the presence of bodily desires that you never act upon, and which cannot possibly fulfill themselves. The lingering fear that it's not really over is a part of addiction, but it is also Addictive Voice, since it suggests that more drinking may be in the cards. Relapse anxiety is AV by definition.

It is just the Beast barking, and the only thing IT can do is to bark AV. If you aren't going to drink, then the Beast barks in vain. Poor thing.
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Old 04-05-2017, 11:30 AM
  # 66 (permalink)  
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Algorithm wow! Thank you! I did not see how insidious my AV is and how rampant it is running. I'm shocked. You have given me a lot to think about. So much of my thinking is AV and I'm not even aware of IT. I really need to examine all of my thinking about this.
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Old 04-05-2017, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by zenchaser View Post
I did not see how insidious my AV is and how rampant it is running. I'm shocked. You have given me a lot to think about. So much of my thinking is AV and I'm not even aware of IT.
The Beast screens all of your thinking, and tries to intervene to make sure that a plan to end the addiction is never seriously entertained, much less implemented. With AVRT, you simply have to do the exact same thing, and screen your thinking for anything that supports drinking some more.

The Big Plan of AVRT is not simply 'swearing off', as they say. The BP brings the AV into consciousness, by creating the necessary separation between you and the Beast (I/It), and by providing a clear context against which the AV may stand out for recognition. The BP makes AV recognition easy.

The Addictive Voice is any thinking, imagery, or feeling that supports or suggests your possible future use of alcohol -- ever. The AV is also, quite simply, any thinking or feeling that contradicts your Big Plan in any way, shape, or form. This is why, without a Big Plan, there is no AVRT.
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Old 04-05-2017, 12:02 PM
  # 68 (permalink)  
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Yes I see it differently now. Any thought rooted in believing in any kind of struggle, at all, against abstinence is AV. Also feeling like any kind of victory against the AV is also AV because it supports the idea of a struggle. Huh go figure.
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Old 04-05-2017, 12:19 PM
  # 69 (permalink)  
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There is no 'struggle against drinking' either. You don't drink(.) Take that Beast . lol
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Old 04-05-2017, 01:12 PM
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Kaily, how are you feeling, today?
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Old 04-05-2017, 02:21 PM
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I apologize Kaily, I should have started my own thread.
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Old 04-05-2017, 02:42 PM
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No Zen, that wasn't a pointed comment! I was just enquiring after Kaily. I'm glad you posted here, Zen, I'm sure it helped Kaily, as well as you.
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Old 04-05-2017, 02:48 PM
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It helped me tremendously! I had some really great insights. I can't thank you all enough. Seriously you all are fantastic!
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Old 04-05-2017, 03:16 PM
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Zen, I think you're fantastic for posting here, persevering, learning and applying AVRT. It's because of threads like this on Secular Connections, that I read, reread, absorbed, applied and finally made my Big Plan - and in so doing I most probably saved my life.

So although AVRT is a solitary one-step recovery; in the run-up to the BP, the learning phase, it's of great assistance to have people asking questions and in return, people explaining it: plus, people providing encouragement, or so I found.
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Old 04-05-2017, 10:38 PM
  # 75 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Tatsy View Post
Kaily, how are you feeling, today?
Hi all good thanks. All the lovely sunshine we are having now puts a brighter slant on everything in general plus I actually slept for nearly 8 hours last night which is something of a miracle!


Zenchaser no problem at all, its all about reading and learning from each other really doesn't matter what thread it is on.
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Old 04-05-2017, 11:08 PM
  # 76 (permalink)  
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Hi Kaily. So pleased to read you are good. You know I went back and read some of your old threads (I have read everyones old threads, I think I am a bit of a stalker lol). The difference between this, real, authentic you and how different you were when the Beast was in control, is striking. I don't think under Beast control you would have even seen the sun in ITs dark prison, it's refreshing to hear from you
I think the best thing is, you are no longer waiting to be rescued and at the mercy of the hopeless UK addiction services. You have rescued yourself, how empowering is that?
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Old 04-05-2017, 11:34 PM
  # 77 (permalink)  
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Have you made your Big Plan yet Kaily? (BP..I will never drink again and I will never change my mind)
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Old 04-06-2017, 01:25 AM
  # 78 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by GaryB1 View Post
Hi Kaily. So pleased to read you are good. You know I went back and read some of your old threads (I have read everyones old threads, I think I am a bit of a stalker lol). The difference between this, real, authentic you and how different you were when the Beast was in control, is striking. I don't think under Beast control you would have even seen the sun in ITs dark prison, it's refreshing to hear from you
I think the best thing is, you are no longer waiting to be rescued and at the mercy of the hopeless UK addiction services. You have rescued yourself, how empowering is that?
Hi Gary. Thanks. They make gruesome reading don't they?
I often go back in the history of people via their posts, its good to see where they started and track how far they have come.
I just reread some of mine and they cheered the beast up enormously and set the AV off but thats fine as I feel strong enough for that now.

As for making the big plan- I am struggling to say " Yes I have " even though I have if that makes any sense at all??
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Old 04-06-2017, 02:07 AM
  # 79 (permalink)  
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Perfect sense! That resistance you feel is the Beast. There IT is, in full view, horrified at your thoughts of never drinking again and never changing your mind. ITs trying to reign you in, to not rush into anything (anything that will deprive IT of ITs life blood..alcohol). ITs scared now, poor thing! Can you feel the fear? Thats ITs fear.
Yes, the Beast will love reading those posts..
"Ah IT thinks, the good old times, when I could have my precious stuff on tap, when I had kaily well under my control, she gave me what I wanted, when I wanted it, I was so clever, she though I and she were one and the same. No matter the alcohol was killing her, no matter she was in despair, no matter I was stealing HER life, it's my survival that counts, she thought SHE needed the alcohol to live, but she has blown my cover now and knows it's me that needs it to survive."
It's you or IT simple as that, you cannot both thrive. And now IT is suffering and you are not. Observe IT suffering, observe IT twisting and turning, trying to manipulate your thoughts into why drinking is a good idea (good idea for IT, not for you). Observe IT digging ITs heels in and trying to drag you back from fully committing to never drinking. Observe this, and keep thinking, I do not drink now (it's always now) My god, ITs in a panic!
You are doing great kaily..your Beast, thats not doing so great..and thats great!!
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Old 04-06-2017, 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by GaryB1 View Post
Observe IT digging ITs heels in and trying to drag you back from fully committing to never drinking.
This should have been never drinking again and never changing your mind.. back spaced too much! I never felt such panic in my life as I did from my Beast when I made this commitment to myself lol
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