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Old 04-03-2017, 06:45 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Gary , imho, I think you were wrong. You explained it very well.

Kaily , what is your plan for future alcohol use ?
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Old 04-03-2017, 10:25 AM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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dwtbd my plan is to never drink alcohol again.
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Old 04-03-2017, 10:43 AM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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Kaily
good, you picked an entirely do-able plan, rootin for ya
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Old 04-03-2017, 11:53 AM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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Hi Kaily, I just wrote you a very long post and accidently pressed your thread page two button and when I went back, the draft had disappeared.

I'll write again so, I need to walk my dogs before dusk.

How are you today, what are your thoughts, do you have any questions whatsoever. When I was fine tuning my AR recognition and separation, I had the benefit of reading the replies to Flames questions in her thread, it was of great assistance, even though my BP was in place forever, I wanted to know all the nuances of AVRT.
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Old 04-03-2017, 12:55 PM
  # 25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Kaily View Post
dwtbd my plan is to never drink alcohol again.
Careful, there. The AV may have stepped in to change the words around, so that you only 'plan' to never drink alcohol again. That is a little different, and much weaker than:
"I will never drink/use again."
  1. "I" am in control of my muscles. Therefore, "I" call the shots.
  2. "Will" is just my ability to make a decision, which requires no power.
  3. "Never" means eternity, forever, to the last star in the universe.
  4. "Drink/use" is what I will never do.
  5. "Again" means that this decision is based on my past experience.

Originally Posted by Kaily View Post
When I got home I was tired and restless, beast and AV were nagging away at me much more than usual and I didn't seem to have the energy to say NO. Not sure I even wanted to.
The key to AVRT is the I/It split between you and the Beast, which the Big Plan creates. Since all desire to drink is not you, but the Beast, then not only do you never drink, but you don't even want to drink -- IT does.

Remember, also, that although they are closely related, that the AV and the Beast are not the same thing. I explained this distinction previously in a response to Behappy1 in another thread.

Originally Posted by Algorithm View Post
You need to drive the Beast into the ground, but in order to so so, you will have to first stop caring about its suffering by deprivation. In order to separate, it may help you to understand that the AV is not the same thing as the Beast, but rather, the AV is the voice of the Beast.

AV ≠ Beast

AV → Beast = Bark → Dog

The AV is to the Beast as the Bark is to the Dog.

The AV is the 'bark' of the Beast, and the AV, not the Beast, is the real cause of your addiction. The Beast is impotent, without hands, and depends on you to feed it. The AV is any thinking or feeling that supports or suggests the possible future use of alcohol or other drugs.

When you feel a sense of deprivation from alcohol, that is the Addictive Voice, because that sense of deprivation suggests the possible future use of alcohol. It is the Beast talking to you. IT, and not you, suffers, and IT is trying to convince you that ITS suffering is your suffering.

The Beast doesn't care if you suffer, so don't concern yourself with whether or not IT suffers. When you feel ITS sense of deprivation, be glad that IT suffers, after all that it has done, and let the thing bark. You don't even need to 'bark' back. Just let it starve, and it will let you go.
See:

Do you understand what you will be giving up, in addition to what you already have given up, if you continue to allow your Beast to structure your life around ITS needs? Would you ever willingly let another person take as much from you?

If you haven't done so already, I would encourage you to go through the crash course, and to start reading through the Rational Recovery book. AVRT is simple, but it can't hurt to learn as much as you can, and it will pay dividends.
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Old 04-03-2017, 03:39 PM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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Hi Kaily,

In your post you said that when you were offered an alcoholic drink at your friends house, you replied that you had 'given up' drinking. That line stuck out to me because since I made my Big Plan and by learning avrt I genuinely don't feel like I have given up anything. For me 'giving up' feels like I am depriving myself of something which I am not. I don't drink, I am a non drinker. However I am depriving IT of something...IT'S life giving alcohol and IT let's me know this through my AV= any thought or feeling that contradicts my Big Plan.

I have gained so much in these past few months because I have found myself again. Before I learnt avrt my life was controlled by IT'S desire to drink, which limited my existence to a cycle of work, drink, sleep, I was barely functioning really and there would have been worse to come for sure. Now, however I am feeling or whatever is going on in my life I don't drink ever, this is not contingent on anything outside of me.

You CAN do this Kaily!
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Old 04-04-2017, 05:01 AM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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Hi Kaily, I absolutely agree with everything that Gary, Dwtbd, Algorithm and Flame have written, so well, and they have covered everything (and more) that my accidentally unsaved post from last night did.

So I'll just add, that my experience also, is that diction is of paramount importance, it has a great impact going forwards. In the early days after my BP I carefully filtered my thoughts for any sign of AV. In so doing, I often corrected myself, so if 'I've given up alcohol' automatically cropped up, I'd instantly restate that as 'I'm a non-drinker', As I read around SR I often heard 'I'm in recovery' and my AV would get excited, but I'd instantly correct myself 'I'm recovered'.

It sounds like pedantics, but it's not. I exerted my self-will and after making a Big Plan, I'm a non-drinker and recovered for the rest of my life. Unlike the Beast, who is suffering from giving up alcohol enforced upon IT by ME and the Beast is in recovery, whilst IT sits in ITs permanently locked cage, occasionally barking AV at me.

I have given up nothing, but instead, regained my life, freedom from addiction; to build and grow, as I may.

Kaily, you CAN do this, I have absolute faith in YOU.
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Old 04-04-2017, 05:38 AM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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Yes, like Tatsy said diction is so important. It's become second nature to me now.
I remember when I first started avrt, the urges to drink were very strong, sometimes the AV would come up with a lot of thoughts and emotions, to try to justify drinking to get me to give in, and the physical urges at times felt almost overpowering.
But I remember thinking to myself, hehe, the Beast is really suffering, I can feel it suffering and I'm glad, because IT made me suffer enough meeting ITs desire to drink over the years.
I get urges and AV thoughts very seldom now. But when I do I still like to feel ITs suffering, after all, it's my suffering or ITs suffering. If alcohol was ever consumed again by me, ITs suffering would end and mine would start. I know which one of us I prefer to suffer.
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Old 04-04-2017, 10:05 AM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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Hi Kaily, how are you feeling today,. Have you read the recent posts and if so, do you have any questions that we, may, be able to help with?

I found AVRT to be a steep learning curve, but once learnt, addiction is behind you. No one day at a time life sentence, so the steep curve was worth it. That life sentence is pronounced, by you, upon your Booze Beast and ITs desire for alcohol. So, whilst IT serves ITs lifetime sentence locked away, alcohol free, for the crime of what ITs inflicted upon you - you're acquitted and free to live your life alcohol free.

I just had to go back and correct myself, sorry guys, but my Beast is male and I had to replace 'he' with IT!
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Old 04-04-2017, 10:48 AM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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Hi Tatsy.
I am doing ok thanks. Just back from an Agility class with my dog. AV started up on the way home in the form of I deserve a reward for doing well at the class etc etc but I managed to separate it as as the beast and not me.

I do find that I need something to look forward to when coming home such as a nice dinner or a cake whereas when I was still drinking food was the last thing I thought about, only interested in the alcohol! Plus I go to bed at about 8pm as I get very bored and lonely by then as I live on my own.

I am grateful for all the replies and I am sure I will be asking plenty of questions in the coming weeks.
Thanks.
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Old 04-04-2017, 11:06 AM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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Kaily, I'm so pleased to read your post! Yes, my Beast loved to speak to me through the AV, by saying I'd done well and deserved a reward! Some reward, to drink and then wake up feeling so devastated and disappointed with myself for drinking.

I too live on my own part of the week, whilst my husband works away from home. He still doesn't realise how bad I was, it was relatively easy to hide it, when he wasn't here full time.

I have two dogs (light of my life) whom I gain so much enjoyment from and love training them. Of course the AV would suggest an alcohol reward after a successful training session, but no thank you.

I too, forsake food for alcohol, oh my, those were the horrible days. In the early days after stopping drinking, I made jelly, bought ice cream and chocolate cake and would fill a bowl with all three - lovely comfort food, which released lots of feel-good chemicals in my brain. I also went to bed early. Tried to cosset myself, after harming myself for so long.

At seven months now, the comfort food is off the table and after buying a Fitbit in January, I've finally learnt how to use it and intend to become fitter-ish!

So glad you're still reading and posting and doing so well.
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Old 04-04-2017, 11:19 AM
  # 32 (permalink)  
 
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Kaily,

At best, the Beast literally rips off your life, and takes away the most limited commodity there is -- precious time. It doesn't care about you at all, not even about your health, or your sanity. Everything of value, including your body, is simply a commodity to be cashed in for ITS personal parties, just like the money that buys the alcohol.

The Beast keeps you stuck in place, often for years, by making you believe that ITS deprivation is your deprivation, and by attacking your character, your self-confidence, and your resolve. It is literally an enemy within -- a parasite, if ever there was one.

You joined this site in January 2015, for example, and were made aware of the existence of AVRT, and this secular forum, way back then, when you were wondering if you could succeed at quitting drinking. A couple of people told you that they had quit drinking by using AVRT.

Kaily's first thread -

Something prevented you from looking into AVRT earlier, though. Who do you reckon that 'something' was? All of that self-doubt that you had back then, over two years ago, supported more drinking. It was the Addictive Voice of the Beast!

I repeat: the Beast is an enemy within -- a parasite. You must be willing to let it suffer by starvation, and drive it into the ground, or it will one day drive you six feet under instead. It really is that simple.
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Old 04-04-2017, 11:41 AM
  # 33 (permalink)  
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Algorithm, that's a powerful post. Time and being stuck? I've wasted lots of that. Like a beetle impaled on a pin - I was a human stuck on the Beast's pin.

Yes, I too encountered AVRT years ago, only to discount it. Apparently, on reflection, my Beast didn't approve of the AVRT site headers, colours, nor its founder's non-AVRT views. So I was led, like a bull on a ring-nose, and followed my Beast's agenda, in its disliking - with one purpose only, booze and more booze, whether or not I died whilst consuming the copious amounts.

I just wish I had the benefit of reading your post, years ago.
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Old 04-04-2017, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Tatsy View Post
Yes, I too encountered AVRT years ago, only to discount it. Apparently, on reflection, my Beast didn't approve of the AVRT site headers, colours, nor its founder's non-AVRT views.
This is not unusual. The Beast will instinctively identify anyone who threatens the Option to consume its precious survival stuff as an enemy. Indeed, two of the prime functions of the Addictive Voice are the identification of 'enemies' that threaten the supply, and character assassination.

Functions of the AV -
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Old 04-04-2017, 12:38 PM
  # 35 (permalink)  
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I found the Crash Course on rational.org
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Old 04-04-2017, 12:43 PM
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Wow, Algorithm, I read the link, which was so informative and I'd urge everyone to read it. Plus, a few posts lower found this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terminally Unique View Post

" In AVRT, we actually practice craving on purpose in order to bring the Beast out from hiding, expose it, and learn that it is genuinely powerless. There are a few sections in the "RR:TNC" book that address this, specifically, the "Shifting" exercise on page 202, "Aggressive Listening" on page 205, and "Attack Your Beast" on page 206. The "Relapse Anxiety Grid" on Page 190 is useful for these exercises, and it might be a good idea to bookmark the page with a paperclip to refer back to.

The shifting exercises are a radical departure from AV anxiety. In AVRT-based recovery, we don’t have relapse anxiety, because it is always an example of the AV itself, and we don't fear the AV; we welcome it as a sign of robust health. This is very different from traditional approaches, and may sound counter-intuitive at first, but it is what will allow you to walk free, without fear of triggers or slipping. If you are having relapse anxiety or are afraid of the Beast, try the exercises in the book.""

This my SR friends, after reading the book, this website and practising the above excercises, is how I quit drinking alcohol for good last year and walked free, after more than two decades of spiralling down. Whoever reads this, YOU can do it too.

Edited to add: the book isn't necessary because the crash course is on the AVRT website, plus explanatory information is found within the six part "AVRT" threads started by Terminal Unique, here in Secular Connections on SR, plus the threads started by AVRTers investigating it. My particularly like Flame11s, Tursiops and BehPpy1s, for the replies to questions.
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Old 04-04-2017, 12:51 PM
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Thx Tasty I have owned this book for over 3 years now. I started to read it and then never wanted to drink again and that lasted for 18 months. But I didn't stay vigilant. So I just pulled out my RR: TNC book and flipped to your suggested pages and so I'm inspired to read it cover to cover!
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Old 04-04-2017, 01:08 PM
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Hi Sunshine, so pleased to read your post. Sorry about the spelling mistakes in my previous post, went back to edit, but the 15min time slot had lapsed, such was my keenness to post a reply to you, I submitted without spellchecking and previewing.

Please let us know what you think after re-reading, plus, please fire any questions this way. I've found freedom from alcohol via this technique, after, almost giving up after years of addiction. If I can do it, YOU can too!

It goes without saying that being a non-drinker is an awesome way to live our lives, no more regrets, recriminations, defeatism, sadness, self-flagellation...on and on. Just peace, serenity, addressing issues as they arise, instead of drowning them in alcohol, only to rear their ugly heads, quadrupled!
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Old 04-04-2017, 01:24 PM
  # 39 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Tatsy View Post
The shifting exercises are a radical departure from AV anxiety. In AVRT-based recovery, we don’t have relapse anxiety, because it is always an example of the AV itself, and we don't fear the AV; we welcome it as a sign of robust health. This is very different from traditional approaches, and may sound counter-intuitive at first, but it is what will allow you to walk free, without fear of triggers or slipping. If you are having relapse anxiety or are afraid of the Beast, try the exercises in the book."
I used to do a variation of the shifting exercise in the TNC book

I would imagine going to the usual shop to buy drink, in minute detail, down to standing in front of the drink shelves, picking a drink, paying for it , walking back with it, opening it, taking a first sip. I could feel my Beast perk up, almost see ITs ears stand to attention. Then I would think but I won't do that because I don't drink now, I'll never do that again I swear down I could feel the Beast deflating.Then I was left with the feeling of how sick alcohol used to make me , actually physically feel sick at the thoughts of drinking again.
I think it's so important not to be afraid of the Beast, or ITs AV
To fully realize how impotent it really is
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Old 04-04-2017, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by GaryB1 View Post
I could feel my Beast perk up, almost see ITs ears stand to attention
By perk up, I meant I could feel ITs anticipation of the pleasure of those first few drinks.
I think that's when I realized why "I" had been drinking despite the heavy toll it was taking on my health and life, against my better judgement.
IT was the one wanting the pleasure of those first few drinks, no matter the cost to my body and my life, it was all worth it to IT. IT didn't acknowledge the horror this drinking was bringing to my life, couldn't acknowledge it. IT lived for the pleasure booze brought, no matter how short lived
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