Jack16

Probably shouldn't be posting now as I'm still under the influence and might not make much sense.

Been on SR on and off since 2014, and still haven't managed to get sober. It just gets worse and worse.

Tried AA for a while, tried AVRT, nothing sticks.

Another bender last night and now I feel terrible and thinking of going to an AA meeting, but in my gut I still have real trouble with it. AVRT spoke strongly but I coudn't get it to work.

Don't know what I'm asking for here. Some kind of guidance I suppose.

I need to do something

Thanks

Dee74

There's some really good stuff on AVRT in this forum.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ined-long.html

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-part-6-a.html

(with links to previous threads)

D

Jack16

Thanks Dee, I think I've read them before. I'll try again.

Dee74

I'm not an expert but I think AVRTs not terribly big on trying.

You either make the commitment - I will never drink again and I will never change my mind - or not.

I know enough to know if you couldn't get AVRT to 'work', your AV is active and running rings around you.

Like Freshstart says in one of the links above:

If you can recognise that Voice then you can act on it and keep your commitment to forever sobriety intact.

Others with much better understanding of the principles involved will be along soon.

D

PhoenixJ

Counselling?

Jack16

Thanks Dee

Jack16

Thanks for the reply. Been having therapy for a year and a half but not specifically for alcohol problems.

Nonsensical

Actually, it starts with NOT doing something.

I don't know where your happy sober path is, but I know where it ISN'T. Stop looking for it where it definitely ISN'T.

Best of Luck on Your Journey

Algorithm

Part of our awareness from the structural model of AVRT is that, once born, the Beast never really dies. It is simply there, and it is not a symptom of anything. It may get weaker over time from sustained abstinence, but there is nothing you can do to remove the desire to drink (aka, the Beast).

In other words, nothing is going to 'work'. That may sound discouraging, but there is good news, too. We also know that the Beast is a quadriplegic, without any hands or feet, and that it can't do anything on its own. It needs you to feed it, hence the Addictive Voice.

It is important to understand that in AVRT, the AV is not the same thing as the Beast, and that the Beast is not the cause of your addiction, because the Beast cannot do anything except to "bark" AV at you, and you are always in control of the peripherals.

Right now, your Beast is probably telling you that as long as IT is still around and barking AV, that it's not really over, and that there is some really 'deep stuff' in AVRT that you need to figure out first before it will 'work' on the Beast and finally, really be over.

It's over when you (not your Beast) decide that it's over, Jack. The key to AVRT is understanding that your Beast is only doing it's job, but that it is all bark and no bite. You simply need to recognize its bark, so that you don't mistake ITs ideas and feelings for yours.

I'm going to quote part of one of my responses from another thread, which you may may want to read through as well.

biminiblue

Yeah, nothing "works."

I do the work. I decided. Decided. That I would not drink again. Ever. No matter what happens, no matter how much I want to or how appealing it may be or how much euphoric recall I had to endure or no matter who died or what financial catastrophe happened or what illness or argument came up.

I don't drink.

It's really simple.

Sure, I think about it - I thought about it 24/7 for many years, of course those associations are there and of course everything-goes-better-with-a-drink. That was the old me. I decided.

It's down to you, my friend. It is so much better on the sober side, but to get there you cannot pick up a drink. Go to bed sober tonight. Let's talk again tomorrow. You'll never be sorry you didn't drink.

Bad news? No one can do this for you. Good news? No one can do this for you.

Whendovescry

Thankyou Algorithm!! What an analogy!
The beast can not do anything but bark! So so so true!
Jack,16, can't share any guidance as new here, aka need help myself, but sending you strength and support. We are not alone.

MicroMacro

The reason there are so many paths to recovery is because they work - for some people. You can keep trying to force a square peg down a round hole or you can come up with some other options. Find the right shaped peg. Make the peg yourself. Or get rid of the entire peg / hole mess. Toss it and walk away in search of confluence - you merging effortlessly with a path that works for you.

I've been to AA, inpatient, outpatient, detox, and the ER. I've had a sponsor and worked all the steps. I've white knuckled withdrawal. I've read and talked and listened and prayed and yelled.

Finally, I decided to go back to school. I'll have 10 months tomorrow. Is school the reason I've been successful? I'll never know. Maybe it's because I tried everything else under the sun before school and school turns out to be my winning ticket. What matters is that it's working. Who cares how I got here. I'm here.

Give yourself that same freedom. If you keep at it - you will find what works for you.

What do you think will help you stay sober?
What do you love to do?
What would you love to do if you felt better?
What makes you feel good when you think about it?
What is one teeny tiny habit you can create and make part of your life that would be helpful to your sobriety (even if it takes a long minute to stick) ? Something you'd really like to do for yourself on a daily basis? Doesn't have to be big at all ... just something you enjoy doing.

Fusion

Jack, you can do this. Stop drinking and reclaim and rebuild the life you wish for. I had an over twenty year addiction. Tried everything, AA, hypnotherapy, crystal therapy, Smart etc.. I also 'tried' AVRT years ago - sadly I discounted AVRT, because I didn't like the colours on the website, I didn't like the views on AA and politics or whatever. As a consequence I lost more up years of my life to the numbing, life destroying alcohol.

Then I joined SR last year and came across Secular Connections. I posted and read and read and realised that actually, this AVRT can work, noticed all the intelligent people for whom it had already worked. I stopped discounting it and took a leap of faith.

I know that part of AVRT is that we don't count days, but my Beast does and it was six months yesterday. After over twenty years of daily drinking (with a short abstinence of 11 days, years ago after reading Alan Carr's book) I think it's a miracle.

But it isn't a miracle at all, it was me realising that I could use my own power, in order to dismiss those automatic thoughts and urges and cravings that the lower base brain sends out, encouraging me to drink - just like I'd taught it, to make me feel better, or improved. In time, I'm teaching it that I don't need to drink and therefore the urges and cravings are very few and far between. Even if they do arise, I dismiss them, they're not me, but the Beast's AV. Please don't worry about the simplicity of this cure, because it's simplicity is your power.

Those automatic thoughts are much like a pre-set alarm clock, habitual, but you can rise above them: much as you would when pressing the snooze button. Eventually the alarm will stop ringing.

Fusion

Tried to edit but too late. The alarm analogy. Even if it does ring often, i.e. the Beast rearing it's head through the AV, it's not a problem whatsoever. In fact, when I do hear the AV now, I just smile and rejoice that I'm free. It's a reminder that I don't need to drink (it's just the sad old Beast having a crying fit for alcohol). Rather than before I made a Big Plan and practised AVRT; when I heard the AV, it was a reminder to take a drink.

It sounds like semantics, but when you thoroughly learn this technique it's awesome and can be applied to other habitual thoughts, too, since they all stem from the same base brain.

Algorithm

There may be many models of addiction, such as the psychological model, the spiritual malady model, the medical disease model, etc, but the "path to recovery" is simply a stage of addiction itself, in which the Option to drink some more is still on the table.

There is but one way to escape the bubble of addiction, which is to permanently cease and desist from ingesting any alcohol whatsoever, and to get on with life sans alcohol. To reserve the Option of drinking some more is simply a plan to drink at some point in the future.

I realize you've been through the treatment and meeting circuit, but this is the view through the lens of AVRT, in which one's innate capacity to recover from an addiction is taken for granted, although perhaps not one's knowledge of precisely how to do so.

Fusion

Yes, the addiction treatment industry would grind to a halt, without the revolving door of 'other ways' to escape the bubble of addiction....which don't permanently stop addiction, but instead, perpetuate the idea of inevitable relapses- cue the revolving door to 'treatment'.

Fusion

Oh, I tried to edit the above post. As much as it reflects my beliefs, as a previously addicted person, who tried to stop for two decades: I realise it may put other folks off from trying to find alternative answers, just as I did, to no avail; but they may find answers outside themselves.

I only stopped drinking when I realised the answer was inside myself all along. We are born with the addiction mechanism and likewise, born with the ability to stop the addiction in its tracks.

Jack16

Algorithm - thank you very much for taking the time to reply. There was a lot in there, and you said some things that clicked quite deeply. I read your post several times.

Just to clarify one thing, and I think I know this already, but the key is recognition, right, as opposed to suppressing, for example.

I think that in the past I have often stumbled, unconsciously, into dialogues with the AV. Or else I have internally told it to "Frick off", etc. Is it purely a kind of mindful observation - recognition, then dismiss it, would you say?

Thanks again. Very much

Jack16

I know what you say is true, bimini. Thanks for the pep talk. Feeling better today (yesterday was the utter pits).

Going to do the only thing I can do - never drink another drop.

Jack16

Thanks Micro, nice words, and true. For years I tried various methods and when a particular one didn't work, I just concluded that nothing would - ridiculous (and deep down I knew that).

I have answered the questions you put at the end, and that was very helpful.


Well done on school - that's great.