Stronger Than You Think?
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 847
Originally Posted by Willadoit 
My head isnt in the place to take other people on.I dont need this..I cant even get the brain cells together to clean my house! I asked ONE question. It was not answered..it was attacked
It is worth noting though, that in AVRT, the Beast, while the source of your Addictive Voice, is not considered the cause of your addiction. Unlike in some other paradigms, in AVRT, the AV, and not the Beast, is the cause of your addiction.
Bark → Dog = AV → Beast
The Beast is simply an impotent desire that cannot fulfill itself, and must appeal to you, via the Addictive Voice, in order to get what it wants. It cannot do anything without your consent.
As long as the Beast remains objectified as an IT, you are safe, but if it gets control of the "I" in your thinking, as if it were you, then you will then be free to drink/use, and possibly will.
Don't let your Beast convince you to run for the hills before learning more about AVRT on account of some posts, though. The Beast instinctively senses that you are thinking of cutting off its precious stuff and breaking free from your addiction.
The Beast screens your thinking, and IT is afraid of death by deprivation. IT will react in self defense, to try and prevent you from seriously considering, much less implementing, such a plan for freedom.
Don't allow this.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,654
Yes, I now understand. The only important person here is you. Please forget about what Phoenix wrote, it wasn't based on fact as we AVRT proponents know it and besides, I feel sure that he didn't post to offend you. That post is in the past, gone. Concentrate on you and now.
Read Algorithm's post above. He's an AVRT guru and I owe my life to the AVRT threads that him, and others, have so genorously contributed to.
If you learn and follow AVRT, then you'll be one of the fortunate ones. You won't be reliant upon contingencies, other people, meetings, one day at a time, performing X, y and z. You'll be free and your default setting will be happy. Let go of your resentment towards Phoenix, it will damage nobody but yourself.
YOU have the power to stop drinking and live a decent, emotionally balanced life: seize it.
Read Algorithm's post above. He's an AVRT guru and I owe my life to the AVRT threads that him, and others, have so genorously contributed to.
If you learn and follow AVRT, then you'll be one of the fortunate ones. You won't be reliant upon contingencies, other people, meetings, one day at a time, performing X, y and z. You'll be free and your default setting will be happy. Let go of your resentment towards Phoenix, it will damage nobody but yourself.
YOU have the power to stop drinking and live a decent, emotionally balanced life: seize it.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 109
Originally Posted by Algorithm
Willadoit,
The Beast of AVRT is indeed a new, false survival drive, which organizes one's thoughts around the new survival mandate (drink/use). This is why it feels so compelling -- it is equated sub-cortically (in the lower brain) with survival.
As has been noted, others like Nora Volkow from NIDA, and Dr. Kevin McCauley, have recently 'discovered' this survival connection as well, independently of AVRT and RR.
That said, RR used the structural model of addiction mostly to help people make sense of what was going on, independently of the disease model, and it is not strictly necessary for AVRT to be put to use.
It would make little difference as far as AVRT is concerned, for example, if Satan were whispering sweet nothings into addicted people's ears about drinking and using. The mechanism would still be the same.
"I am me, and I never drink/use. IT, not I, wants to drink/use. I run my body. Too bad for IT."
There is no need to get too hung up on brain biology to get started with AVRT, though. The Beast does not 'hijack' the brain, nor is it strong, even though it is persistent. It may want to do so, but it cannot actually engage the peripherals (hands, feet, mouth), any more than your sex drive can.
All the Beast can do is to pretend to be you, so that you do its bidding, as if its desires were your own. This is where the 'recognition' piece of AVRT comes in. Any thinking that contradicts "I will never drink/use again," in any way, shape, or form, is the voice of your addiction.
I recommend going through the free AVRT crash course at the Rational Recovery web site (rational.org) and getting yourself a copy of the book Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction by Jack Trimpey.
There is also a lengthy AVRT discussion thread here on Secular Connections which may be useful in clarifying some concepts.
RR
The Beast of AVRT is indeed a new, false survival drive, which organizes one's thoughts around the new survival mandate (drink/use). This is why it feels so compelling -- it is equated sub-cortically (in the lower brain) with survival.
As has been noted, others like Nora Volkow from NIDA, and Dr. Kevin McCauley, have recently 'discovered' this survival connection as well, independently of AVRT and RR.
That said, RR used the structural model of addiction mostly to help people make sense of what was going on, independently of the disease model, and it is not strictly necessary for AVRT to be put to use.
It would make little difference as far as AVRT is concerned, for example, if Satan were whispering sweet nothings into addicted people's ears about drinking and using. The mechanism would still be the same.
"I am me, and I never drink/use. IT, not I, wants to drink/use. I run my body. Too bad for IT."
There is no need to get too hung up on brain biology to get started with AVRT, though. The Beast does not 'hijack' the brain, nor is it strong, even though it is persistent. It may want to do so, but it cannot actually engage the peripherals (hands, feet, mouth), any more than your sex drive can.
All the Beast can do is to pretend to be you, so that you do its bidding, as if its desires were your own. This is where the 'recognition' piece of AVRT comes in. Any thinking that contradicts "I will never drink/use again," in any way, shape, or form, is the voice of your addiction.
I recommend going through the free AVRT crash course at the Rational Recovery web site (rational.org) and getting yourself a copy of the book Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction by Jack Trimpey.
There is also a lengthy AVRT discussion thread here on Secular Connections which may be useful in clarifying some concepts.
RR
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 109
There is no need to get too hung up on brain biology to get started with AVRT, though. The Beast does not 'hijack' the brain, nor is it strong, even though it is persistent. It may want to do so, but it cannot actually engage the peripherals (hands, feet, mouth), any more than your sex drive can.
Yes, I was totally mistaken here !
Yes, I was totally mistaken here !
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 847
Originally Posted by Willadoit
I have the book from Amazon coming tomorrow..but I thin I have learnt more from you and your posts
Also, one of the chief drawbacks of AVRT is that compared to other approaches, it appears too simple at first, and you may therefore feel that there must be some hidden "deep stuff" somewhere that you need to figure out first in order to quit drinking.
That is simply your Addictive Voice -- any thinking, in words and images, that directs, supports, or suggests your possible future use of alcohol and other drugs.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,183
Originally Posted by Willadoit
The simple truth is I am fecking outraged by PhoenixJ
Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,654
I hope you're OK Willadoit, take no heed of the above post. Don't let the ....... drag you down. You know someone contradicted you (in your fragile questioning stage) and I do too, it's indisputable, as written above.
It matters not. Please follow the links provided by Algorithm and read the free website. You can rise above this.
It matters not. Please follow the links provided by Algorithm and read the free website. You can rise above this.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 109
Thanks for understanding Tatsy, I know I went off the deep end, and I know why I went off the deep end, but I don't usually go off on one that bad over things!!
I want to thank eveyone for the excellent answers to my question and for taking the time to pass on all that great information....I will be working through it over the coming days. My head is not processing things too well at the minute. (No, you say! haha).
I think I will stay away from posting for the next couple of days, my life is enough of a mess, very overwhelming messes everywhere, without making a mess for myself on here. I will be reading though.
Thank you again for the support in answering my question
I want to thank eveyone for the excellent answers to my question and for taking the time to pass on all that great information....I will be working through it over the coming days. My head is not processing things too well at the minute. (No, you say! haha).
I think I will stay away from posting for the next couple of days, my life is enough of a mess, very overwhelming messes everywhere, without making a mess for myself on here. I will be reading though.
Thank you again for the support in answering my question
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 109
Originally Posted by Algorithm
I believe I answered it, Willadoit, but regarding your question as to whether or not the Beast is the overriding survival drive, it does usually become the primary one. This is why addicted people drink/use in spite of and against their other interests.
It is worth noting though, that in AVRT, the Beast, while the source of your Addictive Voice, is not considered the cause of your addiction. Unlike in some other paradigms, in AVRT, the AV, and not the Beast, is the cause of your addiction.
Bark → Dog = AV → Beast
The Beast is simply an impotent desire that cannot fulfill itself, and must appeal to you, via the Addictive Voice, in order to get what it wants. It cannot do anything without your consent.
As long as the Beast remains objectified as an IT, you are safe, but if it gets control of the "I" in your thinking, as if it were you, then you will then be free to drink/use, and possibly will.
Don't let your Beast convince you to run for the hills before learning more about AVRT on account of some posts, though. The Beast instinctively senses that you are thinking of cutting off its precious stuff and breaking free from your addiction.
The Beast screens your thinking, and IT is afraid of death by deprivation. IT will react in self defense, to try and prevent you from seriously considering, much less implementing, such a plan for freedom.
Don't allow this.
It is worth noting though, that in AVRT, the Beast, while the source of your Addictive Voice, is not considered the cause of your addiction. Unlike in some other paradigms, in AVRT, the AV, and not the Beast, is the cause of your addiction.
Bark → Dog = AV → Beast
The Beast is simply an impotent desire that cannot fulfill itself, and must appeal to you, via the Addictive Voice, in order to get what it wants. It cannot do anything without your consent.
As long as the Beast remains objectified as an IT, you are safe, but if it gets control of the "I" in your thinking, as if it were you, then you will then be free to drink/use, and possibly will.
Don't let your Beast convince you to run for the hills before learning more about AVRT on account of some posts, though. The Beast instinctively senses that you are thinking of cutting off its precious stuff and breaking free from your addiction.
The Beast screens your thinking, and IT is afraid of death by deprivation. IT will react in self defense, to try and prevent you from seriously considering, much less implementing, such a plan for freedom.
Don't allow this.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 28,658
I just caught up with this stuff. I meant no offense and ANY comments I share are based on how I feel. No one else. My only wish was to share and perhaps offer perspective. I respect all who post and share at SR. If my comments are offensive- I would be the first to withdraw them . I apologise- not for my comments but for distress I have caused. This road is a terrible one for all. All deserve to be treated with equality and respect.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
