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Old 12-04-2016, 06:04 AM
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Big plan

Hello I am back after a long absence. 42 days ago I quit drinking alcohol and I feel good in that decision. I am only really just learning about avrt but have a question..
I notice in other sections of the site like newcomers a lot of people saying "never say never" with not drinking again but instead to take one day at a time. This seems at odds with big plan idea to me but perhaps I misunderstand?
I know there are other recovery methods put forth here and just trying to untangle what belongs to what...
To me never saying never because it might scare myself seems like then I am just tricking myself each day with the possibility dangling that yes, maybe tommorow I will drink. Is it not better to decide and be clear in that decision so you move on?
Just looking for others thoughts on this, thanks
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Old 12-04-2016, 06:14 AM
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Yes. You've got it.

I don't "get" that line of thinking either.
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Old 12-04-2016, 06:19 AM
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,
No Means No.

The End.
.
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Old 12-04-2016, 06:24 AM
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I have found that a lot of traditional suggestions seem almost designed to set people up for failure.
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Old 12-04-2016, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by jazzfish View Post
I have found that a lot of traditional suggestions seem almost designed to set people up for failure.
yes, it seems to me that with that line of thinking, you are telling yourself that drinking is desirable and something you want to do, but you just aren't doing it today. Because if not desirable, why not be glad to be free of it? Why not proclaim you are done? So yes, its seems to reinforce the AV somehow to me.
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Old 12-04-2016, 07:16 AM
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Hi Avra. I began quitting after labour day holding on to the idea that I would allow myself to have a drink "one day". It took two brief slips before I realized that I had to put all thoughts of ever drinking again out of my head in order to be successful. I'm at 45 days. I didn't think it would be possible to accept that I will never drink again but instead it has been completely liberating to not have thoughts about drinking in my head all the time. I know different things work for different folks but for me it has to be "never again".
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Old 12-04-2016, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Avra View Post
I notice in other sections of the site like newcomers a lot of people saying "never say never" with not drinking again but instead to take one day at a time. This seems at odds with big plan idea to me but perhaps I misunderstand?
No, you don't misunderstand, but I'll make a couple of points, to illustrate the powerfully simple logic of AVRT.

The Addictive Voice (AV) of AVRT is simply any thinking, imagery, or feeling that supports or suggests any possible future use of alcohol and other drugs.

"Never say never to the possible future use of alcohol or other drugs" fits the definition of Addictive Voice almost to the letter, and it is actually the cardinal rule -- the sin qua non -- of addiction itself.

AVRT makes no distinction as to the source of AV, and with that advice, the cardinal rule of addiction itself is framed as a solution to addiction.

This is obviously backwards.
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Old 12-04-2016, 12:30 PM
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Hi Avra,
For me, the idea of "one day at a time" is for situations in my life like dealing with my teenaged sons (lol) or a difficult co-worker...it is most definitely not useful in relation to abstinence. Many, many people say that "never" ends the struggle that often comes with ODAAT. In fact, I've also heard others say they get through ODAAT, but upon further discussion, they'll say something like, "Oh, I'll never go there again."

Obviously "never" creates discomfort for the Beast, which many confuse as discomfort for *them*. To avoid the suffering, they unknowingly placate the Beast with ODAAT. What they fail to see is that, placating simply creates more Beast activity. Anyone who has ever had a child knows that there are wildly different responses between a"no" and a "we'll see". Most parents will give a "we'll see" to avoid the tantrum that comes with "no", but consistency in meaning what you say will lessen the outbursts, in many cases to nothing. A "we'll see" really ramps up a kid's begging lol and so it goes with the Beast as well.
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Old 12-04-2016, 12:46 PM
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Avra (lol your name autocorrected to AVRT on my iPad) I've tried a number of recovery methods. It was only after learning AVRT and making my Big Plan, that the uncertainly of whether I'd drink again, crumple, relapse, slip etc., were put to bed, forever. I don't struggle, I don't count days. Alcohol is poison to me, the Beast's mis-directed survival drive would've killed me. I drank huge amounts for two decades.

My Big Plan put all that heart-ache, struggle, one day at a time behind me. I just wish I could transmit the relief I feel, the peace, the serenity, the clarity of mind.

To encapsulate how I feel, it's FREEDOM, I'm no longer dominated by thoughts of drinking. Yes, they come and go, transient, but it's just the Beast using its AV (any think, feeling or image) to get ITs supply and I recognise that fact and dismiss it, easily.

IT thinks it's immortal, it would use its AV to lead me to continue drinking, until I drank myself to death. But sadly for IT and happily for me, I will never, ever drink again. It's not an option, I'm a non-drinker. I wish this for you too, no battle, no ODAAT, just freedom.
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