tursiops999

Dear flame, I am sorry to hear of your boyfriend's condition.

You absolutely can choose the sober life. You're worth fighting for, you deserve this freedom.

GerandTwine

Hi Flame,

Tammy711 used AVRT here on SR four years ago. She still pops in here about once a year. Here's the link to a blog post she made that you might like.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...l#comment24988

GT

Fusion

Thank you GerandTwine, for the link to the Tammy blog post.

The post is powerful and insightful and I particularly liked the closing line - 'I am Tammy and I have an AV, but it doesn't have me'.

Truthfully, after I suffered for decades in the vice-like grip of the AV, struggling and fighting with it, I am now, finally liberated and set free by AVRT, to choose what I do. I choose not to drink, ever again, never.

Flame, you can join us too.

I am Tatsy and I have an AV, but it doesn't have me.

flame11

Sorry for late reply iv been at work. Thank you all for your support. Thank you for the link GT . I will have a proper read of this tomorrow when I'm less tired and hungover. My brain isn't working well tonight. Thank you for being here everyone.

flame11

Hey, I have an appointment with my therapist today. I will go to this because I have to pay for it if I go or not. This will be my 4th session and I began going to help with my alcohol addiction. To be honest the last 2 sessions we mainly covered the same ground and it was a little cringy because i could see that she didnt really have anything new to say. However I am going to try AVRT and I don't want anything to complicate this. My thinking is that I can explain this to her today and also suggest that when I have some sober time behind me that I may well need to see her again in relation to other issues. I'm not asking for medical advice I've never been diagnosed with any mental illness I just want to give myself the best chance of success. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Fusion

Hello Flame, I do have thoughts on the matter you raised, but I'm just about to leave home and when I return later, I'll respond. But for now, I'm so glad to see you thinking things through and moving towards making your Big Plan.

flame11

Thanks Tatsy much appreciated ☺ look forward to hearing your thoughts on this.

flame11

Tammy's blog made me smile GerandTwine because she describes both of my brains too . I especially liked that she called it her "booze brain" I have one of those. I often feel alone with this "battle" especially since I left the RGM. I believed that there was nowhere else to go...so I would just embrace my addiction and cope with it the best I could. I could relate to Trimpey when he spoke about this. Secular connections gives me hope . I'm continuing my reading of RR and so far so good. I will learn to recognise my AV, IT'S dialogue and IT'S feelings just as Tammy and all of you have.

GerandTwine

Hi flame,
Your plan sounds good, especially if the counselor is not familiar with AVRT. You can take your book along for reference. AVRT is intentionally totally segregated from dealing with other mental health issues. Quit drinking first, then see what you might want to work on. Be sure not to skip over The Big Plan. Have you made that ONCE in a lifetime commitment?
GT

flame11

Hi GerandTwine, appreciate your response, thanks. The Big Plan...no I haven't made it yet. I'm just reading about that in the book. I'm astounded at the fact that myself and many others (as cited in the book) actually have NO plan whatever regarding the future use of alcohol/drugs. I guess that's partly because we (addicts) are always in constant dialogue with the AV, and not even aware of what's actually going on in our brains. This has also for me mingled with the ideas of not having any power/control over my addiction. So why would I have even considered giving up for the rest of my life. Having said that I am know thinking about it. I like that Trimpey says that the Big Plan is also on an intuitive level. I have to log off now or I will be late for my appointment. I'm going to take my book with me. Thank you.

Algorithm

What I found striking was the contrast between this post from Tammy in 2012.

• My name is Tammy, and I have an AV, but it doesn't have me!

And this one from 2016, where she reflects on a handwritten prayer from 2009, three years before quitting, where she was asking G-d to remove her desire for alcohol.

• Hadwritten Prayer

She reflects:

Quite a turnaround.

soberlicious

We know that many people of faith do use secular approaches to quitting (like AVRT). I'm nonbeliever, so I'm just musing here, but maybe many of faith might look at it as God brought them to AVRT? Kind of like the "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime" thing? Idk...just pondering here.

fini

yes, many of faith use secular approaches.
the idea that 'people of faith' assume they have no power or capability or responsibility in and of themselves is false.

Fusion

Hello Flame, I'm sorry I wasn't able to log back on last night. GerandTwine's view was similar to mine, though. Just wondering how you are feeling today.

flame11

Hi Tatsy, no worries. I've been really busy work/ home stuff but generally OK thanks for asking. I saw my therapist yesterday and spoke to her about AVRT. She was very receptive to the idea. Although she hadn't heard of this technique she did have good understanding of the structural model as illustrated in the book. We discussed this and I found it helpful. I'm going to see her again because I found it helpful to talk about what I'm doing face to face and she is happy for me to lead the way in our sessions. At the same time I'm in control of my therapy and if at anytime I think/ feel that it's conflicting with the AVRT I can stop doing it. Thanks for asking .

Algorithm

I would encourage you to make a temporary Big Plan, then, as in "I will not drink again until I finish reading the Rational Recovery book."

It sounds rather weak, but you will almost certainly stop procrastinating and finish reading the book in this fashion. Once you finish reading the book, you can either make up your mind, with a real Big Plan, or not.

I would also recommend that you read through the main AVRT discussion thread, since a lot of the material in the book is discussed, and many questions have been answered.

Remember that AVRT is about separation from the addictive drive, and that the Beast, not you, is the addict. To say that you are "an addict" is to say that you are your Beast, or one with the Beast. This is the opposite of what we do with AVRT, which also involves paying attention to language.

To say that you are powerless over your addiction is to say that you are powerless over your Beast, and that the Beast is your Higher Power. Of course, this is usually the case in addiction.

You may want to ask your therapist what her own personal experience with recovery from addiction is, and what her professional orientation regarding addiction is. AVRT violates almost all of the axioms of RET/REBT, which many psychologists try to apply to addiction.

Bear in mind also that although discussion, as we are doing here, is certainly useful, ultimately, you are on your own against the Beast. That may sound depressing, but it may also prompt you to finally take responsibility for your own recovery, which you are perfectly capable of doing.

Algorithm

That's one way of looking at it. Another is that few religions advocate waiting for G-d to remove the desire to drink in order to abstain from alcohol. Once upon a time — before 'spiritual not religious' — people would usually pledge to G-d to abstain. The way I read her reflection on her prayer, Tammy found her way home by using the traditional approach.

flame11

Thanks for your comments Algorithm much appreciated. I haven't finished reading the book yet,time and head space issues. I'm scared of making a Big Plan I don't have the confidence in myself to do it right now I'm scared I won't be able to stick to it. I have read through quite alot of threads on here and I will continue to do so until things actually start sinking in my head! My memory is really bad and I can read something and I've forgotten it very quickly afterwards, somethings do stick though, thankfully.
I've been thinking alot about what you said about the separation from the addictive drive.
This was actually confusing me to be honest I think because I've never looked at it that way. Thank you for explaining that to me it's very helpful. I'm sorry if I offended anyone when I said "we addicts" .
As for being powerless...I certainly have felt like that because I have always choosen to drink again after different lengths of sobriety. Looking back I can see that this has been caused by my AV either via my thinking or in my feeling. I don't feel as though I am powerless anymore after starting to learn about AVRT. However it does kinda put the responsibility straight on my shoulders which is a little scarey! So really if I choose to drink again I don't have any excuses No disease or anything...
I can see your point clearly about the therapy. I understand that going to therapy may have a chance of convincing me that I have "issues" that if resolved would enable me to drink "normally" In my heart I know 100% that isn't true. I wish it were but it's not. I do get something from talking to my therapist that I'm missing in my life. I don't have anyone at all that I can talk to on that level and it's helping me at the moment.
Thanks again Algorithm I hope you are feeling OK I know you've been going through alot recently.

GerandTwine

Hi flame,

With the "scarey" this and "scarey" that, you make it sound like alcohol is oxygen, but, of course, we all know it isn't.

It is your Beast that thinks it is oxygen. Yes, alcohol IS oxygen to your Beast. That's why IT absolutely MUST drink again.

On the other hand, why would YOU want to continue to drink?

GT

flame11

Hi GerandTwine, yes oxygen, that's exactly what it feels like to my Beast. IT is scared that IT will "die" if IT cant convince me to drink alcohol. And as I understand so far my Beast is a misguided addicted survival drive that will do anything IT can to get me to physically drink alcohol...to survive. Me on the other hand, why would I want to continue drinking and destroying myself ?? I don't. I think I might have something here!! Did I finally just kinda get it?? I need to make the I/ IT seperation. I need to know that any thoughts of future alcohol/drugs use come from my Beast (which wants to survive at my expense!) via my AV. The feelings that are generated by my Beast cause me a little more trouble identifying and separating from that's one reason I'm continuing my therapy. However I think IT causes me to feel mainly negative stuff like anxiety/fear, anger, and the restlessness/ boredom described in the book is very familiar to me too. I hope I'm learning. I've got a couple of days off work so I can spend a bit more time on SR and finish the book. And what then...make a Big Plan...I'm going to say yes I will make one...I'd be stupid not too seeing as I don't want to drink again. IT will be "SCARED" if i make a Big Plan. I will be FREE! Thanks GerandTwine.