AVRT - some guidance please...
 

Hi, I'm practising AVRT, and it's not the first time I have used it.

I have read the book twice, and done my best to absorb the concepts. I feel I am getting closer and closer to nailing it, but my grasp of it still feels a bit tenuous at times.

Been going well for a week or so, then tonight I came very close to getting swamped by the AV. It was one of those times when I went from being fine one minute to just being totally in the grip of the AV. I wasn't thinking as me - IT was totally in the driver's seat, so to speak.

'I' basically decided to just go and get a drink. Fortunately, on the way there I somehow managed to regain control, and I am so damn glad I did.

But, I need to be ready for the next time. I've been finding it easy and very effective to recognize and dissociate from all the little stirrings of the Beast as they come up, but this was different. Suddenly it was just there and totally in control. There was no division between me and IT.

I know the book talks about this, but I could still do with some further advice from any AVRT veterans. I almost blew it and I do not want this to happen again. There is way too much at stake.

Thanks

Hi Jack,
You are describing "vertigo" as defined by AVRT (pgs 156-157 in The New Cure). There are some strategies for combatting a vertigo beast attack, like labeling. All of chapter 12 might be worth a reread. There are also some really good threads on AVRT here in secular connections that date back to like 2011 I think. Have you read through those? Lots of good stuff in there.

Thank you, Soberlicious. I will reread those pages, and yeah, I'm working my way through the threads - a lot of good stuff in there.

Much appreciated

You can do this, Jack. You can absolutely 100% do this! Your beast is just being an assh*le, cuz that's it's job. It will learn. Things will get easier for you.

Hello, Jack! Great to see you here - you will find a lot of support for you in this forum, really great people.

I found a couple of things to be very helpful during those vertigo moments. Top of the list is a mindfulness exercise. It could be as simple as asking yourself, 'Am I breathing?' Then focus on the sensation of breath. Cool air comes in. The chest expands, the diaphragm drops. Clothes move against skin. Warm air goes out. Just become aware of these sensations.

Then you can become 'the watcher', a nearby observer of you. You get to see things happen, but with a slight separation between you and the feelings that you are experiencing. The feelings are not you, because you are The Watcher who observes these feelings.

You only need a second or two to recall the Big Plan, and then the separation between you and IT becomes clear and tangible again.

Like Soberlicious says, you got this! Onward!

Thank you Freshstart,

I will definitely use that. In fact, reading some of the AVRT threads, and re-reading the book, I have come to understand AVRT in terms of mindfulness. I have used mindfulness a bit in other areas of my life and found it very useful.

I read somewhere that the native Americans had a way of viewing all kinds of suffering. If they felt physical pain or emotional pain they would say: "A man is in pain", or "A man is sad" rather than "I am sad" etc. It obviously gave them enough distance to dissociate, which is just like AVRT.

So I will follow your advice and use all of the tools in the book. I feel much more ready for any future attacks of "vertigo".

Thank you

I wish I had some good advice. I drank like a fish for 25 years but just the Crash Course/Bullet for my Beast online was all it took for me. So far I'm a bit past the four year sober mark. After once through it became easy to recognize the Beast Voice and discern it as distinct from "my own" voice.

Hang in there! You'll get it figured out.:grouphug:

Thanks - the inspiration of your story is guidance enough

Good when we all reach out and learn from each other. Good for you J16

Yes, the Buddhists use similar language. Not "I am sad", but "sadness is passing through", or "sadness is visiting me", etc I think it's similar in the way that AVRT addresses the pronoun situation to create separation. Not I, but It. You don't want a drink, It does. It is simply visiting, passing through...like an annoying acquaintance trying to chat you up. It has no power over You.

Buddhists say that trying to push undesirable emotions or thoughts or desires away...actively fighting them, that creates a connection with them. When you disengage, there is no connection. "Fighting" the beast by either trying to reason with the AV or force it to go away, creates the engagement and connection that the Beast wants. It gets you involved in a match that it may eventually win, since It has successfully gotten You there on the court with It. If you never even set foot on the court, it cannot beat You.

Bringing a mindfulness perspective to the experience of 'cravings' or 'urges' helped me to quickly realize I didn't need to really give a cr@p, as painful as it may be for the Beast, for me the experience passes by and changes nothing.

Yes, you've nailed it. In the past this has absolutely been my mistake. I have engaged with the AV, and fallen into reasoning with it - and then I have quickly been lost to it.

It has been a big breakthrough for me to see the process of AVRT as, essentially, a mindfulness technique. I didn't really get that before. I think I saw it, mistakenly, as a more combative approach (I will pit my will against the Beast's).

I see also that my AV has played very much upon the simplicity of AVRT as a way to sew doubts in my mind: "Nothing could be that simple, otherwise everyone would be doing it", etc

Ah yes, the AV loves that one. The truth is though, this is how people quit. Even people who use other methods will often say that they've taken drinking off the table as an option ever, or they say things like "Don't drink", "keep it simple", "put a (plastic) chip in your mouth, and when it dissolves, then you can drink". Those are all basic variations on the concept of never. The reality is, the only way to get out from under addiction to alcohol is to not put alcohol in your body. By not committing to forever, you are simply on and off the hamster wheel of addiction. AVRT removes the wheel entirely.

Another way SMART is similar to AVRT. Word substitution. We are not sad. From there I can find help me to change my mood through simple things through simple word substitutions that remove the feeling from who I am. So instead of "I am sad" I'll word it as "My feeling is sadness." That alone removes the association from who I am to what I feel, and we have control over our feelings. For example, when I feel sad I can alter my mood by listening to upbeat Queen songs with the powerful vocals, drums and baselines .If it is something extremely sad I can cry and then get that feeling out. Again, I am doing an action to complete the circle of the feeling and I am not the feeling

As for my AV, I have name it "Mr Wishful Thinking." Mr because when we use that term in English it symbolizes a relationship somewhat distant and Wishful Thinking symbolizes my recognition that my AV is exactly what I call it, something that wants me to give in but in actuality wants me to do something I know isn't in my best interest.

Its a good thing I talk to my dog already or everyone would think I was nuts spouting off a term like that out loud.

Being able to tell it off gives me a lot of power.

http://www.smartrecovery.org/resourc...Vocabulary.pdf

Yes, I've begun to notice that. I realise now just how much I adopted a belief in powerlessness over drinking, AND how I used that as an excuse to continue.

For the last year and a half I've been doing therapy, and I'd say it's taken me that long to truly understand that no one can save you but yourself. As I've said before, I'm getting AVRT more and more every day. Stuff that didn't make sense to me in the book, does now. Like the stuff at the start where Trimpey describes the phone call with the woman who called him, and he simply kept asking her what her plan was - whether she planned to keep drinking or to stop. Reading that part irritated me, just as it did the woman he was describing. But now I see the simplicity of what he was saying.

I feel good, and I feel confident.

Thanks

Exactly. It's becoming the observer of emotions/feelings/thoughts, and that distance is everything. It's interesting that so many of these techniques and ideas are being endlessly repackaged these days (which is great), but people were on this stuff thousands of years ago.

Thanks

(lovely dog!)

Reading that part irritated your beast.

:)

From what I understand it, why J trimpey and Smart fell out, was that Trimpey said no thing had to be done than basically ignore the Beast. Smart, was dispute the av. Smart is put right your irrational thinking. RR is, do not engage at all.
I thought they were basically the same when I first started RR, but they are not, I now understand the basic difference between the two, and why Trimpey says "stay away from recovery groups" There is nothing wrong with you, the Beast doesn't understand the difference between rational and irrational thinking, it doesn't think.

I'll just add that the Beast of AVRT is actually an autonomous, rational entity, and that in AVRT, the Addictive Voice is viewed as a rational, intelligent expression of a valid biological drive. The Beast simply does what it must to survive.

From the Beast's viewpoint, alcohol or drugs are necessary for survival, and it is because of this that the AV is impervious to reason or disputation. It cannot be reasoned away, because it is perfectly rational for any animal, or Beast, to try and survive.

When people try to debate with their Addictive Voice, they are trying to convince their Beast that it needs to die by deprivation. Since the Beast has no interest whatsoever in dying, it will not be impressed with any arguments.

For the Beast, drinking/using is obviously very rational.

Trimpey and SMART had a falling out. So they have the same base but simply went different directions. People are often confused about SMART Meetings. They aren't social or like other forms of meetings we are familiar with. SMART Meetings are there to guide you to use the tools in the handbook so that you can walk away with the ability to becoming a more balanced person.The irrational thinking in SMART isn't drinking or using but real life situations that get on our nerves or are unhealthy.

Like I've said before I do get things from both RR and SMART.