Opinions wanted 🙂
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,183
I think we have to be a bit careful with "addiction", since it's used in a couple ways that are different.
Alcohol chemical dependency is a primary medical condition caused by drinking too much alcohol for too long. It is not a symptom of anything else (hence primary), and it is what causes withdrawal and post-acute withdrawal. Withdrawal can be treated somewhat usually with benzos, post-acute withdrawal that can drag on for two years seems treatable only by support and re-training our brains over time, at least we humans haven't figured out anything better. Hence, support groups of all flavors, CBT, applying various tools like distraction, AVRT, etc.
At some point we are fully recovered from the short-term and long-term effects of chemical dependency, which does not necessarily mean we are perfect stable happy humans, but most people who have never been addicts are not either, so we have lots of company.
If this is what we mean by "addiction", then fine, it's a primary medical condition that is ultimately cured by not drinking alcohol. However sometimes when the word is used, it is presumed to mean something else - a predisposition towards addictive drinking or perhaps behavior of all kinds, a susceptibility to succumbing back into chemical dependency if we drink later in life, even some kind of spiritual void. This is all fine, but then we're talking about other things, not addiction as chemical dependency.
Alcohol chemical dependency is a primary medical condition caused by drinking too much alcohol for too long. It is not a symptom of anything else (hence primary), and it is what causes withdrawal and post-acute withdrawal. Withdrawal can be treated somewhat usually with benzos, post-acute withdrawal that can drag on for two years seems treatable only by support and re-training our brains over time, at least we humans haven't figured out anything better. Hence, support groups of all flavors, CBT, applying various tools like distraction, AVRT, etc.
At some point we are fully recovered from the short-term and long-term effects of chemical dependency, which does not necessarily mean we are perfect stable happy humans, but most people who have never been addicts are not either, so we have lots of company.
If this is what we mean by "addiction", then fine, it's a primary medical condition that is ultimately cured by not drinking alcohol. However sometimes when the word is used, it is presumed to mean something else - a predisposition towards addictive drinking or perhaps behavior of all kinds, a susceptibility to succumbing back into chemical dependency if we drink later in life, even some kind of spiritual void. This is all fine, but then we're talking about other things, not addiction as chemical dependency.
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i understood the OP to be asking specifically for opinions.
our opinions.
not a debate about what constitutes alcoholism, addiction, alcohol addiction, diseaes, illness, condition, syndrome, habit, whatever.
our opinions.
not a debate about what constitutes alcoholism, addiction, alcohol addiction, diseaes, illness, condition, syndrome, habit, whatever.
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,937
I do believe some have a predilection towards addiction. I have no firm opinion as to whether it's genetic, environmental or a mix of the two. Nor do I think anyone is predestined to become addicted. It's just that the predisposition is there for some. Looking back I think I was pretty much addicted from the first time I ever got drunk.
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 59
Originally Posted by Algorithm 
I can't speak for Goodfellas, but for my part, this thing organized my thought patterns around a perverse mandate to drink, drink, drink, all the while concealing its existence. Once exposed, it could be defeated.
A better question for Goodfellas might be "What is your present plan for your future use of alcohol and other drugs? Are you going to drink/use again in this lifetime, or are you not?"
In other words, what exactly is your choice regarding your addiction?
A better question for Goodfellas might be "What is your present plan for your future use of alcohol and other drugs? Are you going to drink/use again in this lifetime, or are you not?"
In other words, what exactly is your choice regarding your addiction?
I kno I will never drink again.
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Originally Posted by fini
i understood the OP to be asking specifically for opinions.
our opinions.
not a debate about what constitutes alcoholism, addiction, alcohol addiction, diseaes, illness, condition, syndrome, habit, whatever.
our opinions.
not a debate about what constitutes alcoholism, addiction, alcohol addiction, diseaes, illness, condition, syndrome, habit, whatever.
Behold the power of NO
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
This is my personal view so take it with a grain of salt (you know what they say about opinions LOL)
I think that while some of us are more predisposed to it, addiction/alcoholism is a self inflicted obsessive mental disorder.
There are many divergent opinions on that matter and while discussing it can be interesting, the priority for anyone who is having issues with their drinking is to quit and stay quit with whichever method/program/tools make sense to them.
I am really glad to see you here, sober and reaching out to others GF. Keep up the good work, there is a LOT of support here. You can do it
I think that while some of us are more predisposed to it, addiction/alcoholism is a self inflicted obsessive mental disorder.
There are many divergent opinions on that matter and while discussing it can be interesting, the priority for anyone who is having issues with their drinking is to quit and stay quit with whichever method/program/tools make sense to them.
I am really glad to see you here, sober and reaching out to others GF. Keep up the good work, there is a LOT of support here. You can do it
Not The Way way, Just the way
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: US
Posts: 1,413
Originally Posted by fini
i understood the OP to be asking specifically for opinions.
our opinions.
not a debate about what constitutes alcoholism, addiction, alcohol addiction, diseaes, illness, condition, syndrome, habit, whatever.
our opinions.
not a debate about what constitutes alcoholism, addiction, alcohol addiction, diseaes, illness, condition, syndrome, habit, whatever.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/ondcp/cha...language-draft
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 31
Oooo gooder!
So nobody really knows, but they are much more ahead then they were a couple decades ago. Keep in mind though that mood disorders also have this same status. There are still some polar camps in schools of thought, where some say it's biology, and others say it's environment/cognition. I personally like Gabor Mate's take of chicken or the egg.
So in terms of genetics... I read the research of folks who found a genetic connection. BUT!!! But... They openly state that their findings have limitations. First off, they found a gene that goes with all compulsive behaviour, from ADHD, gambling, addiction, rage issues to mood disorders. Cue in media release for articles stating they "found the alcoholic gene!!" Not quite. They found a gene that correlates with compulsion. It's a step ahead but it's hardly a diagnosis.
The other big variable, which comes back to Gabor Mate's chicken or the egg, is neuroplasticity--the brain's ability to reorganize itself. (Definition of Neuroplasticity)
A long time ago, if one had a stroke, and lost function of a body part, they would live the rest of their life not using said part. But they eventually discovered that with rehab, many would regain function. What was happening is that neighbouring parts of the brain were taking on the operation of the damaged area. This was a massive finding, and has changed the lives of many many people.
See the brain grows neurons, neurons die, and synaptic connections form, every day. It's very use it or lose it, like a muscle. Point is what you train ends up being what your brain does. For example, if you first pick up a guitar, your brain will be activated all over the place. and you can see it in the learner, they are all over the place. They need to stop to change hand position, they'll forget about timing, etc.
But the more you practise, the more your brain becomes efficient. Until a brain scan reveals a very fine, very efficient "audio-motor loop". What happened is that synaptic connections were formed, and strengthened, and your brain has achieved efficiency.
Now what are the implications on addiction and poor mental health? Huge! Now say you think things like "I'm a loser, I suck. I can't do anything right. Nothing feels good except booze. etc" You will train your brain to fall on those patterns. Kinda like having improper form while doing squats every day-- you exercise the muscle improperly, eventually damaging yourself.
Now if there is a gene that makes people more susceptible to crazy thought patterns? For sure that could happen. The good news though is that given neuroplasticity, that is reversible. Neuroplasticity is so prevalent--there is even a famous case of a woman born with only one side of her brain that eventually got a masters degree. Her existing brain side had taken on the functions of the non existent side.
So when you do achieve sobriety/good mental health, your brain has actually changed, through neuroplasticity. That said, and to answer the question, when you had exercised your brain to be self-destructive, I do qualify that as disease. Kinda like when I had preeclampsia while pregnant, and my placenta had started to self destruct as it was attacking my husband's genes, that make up the placenta with mine. It is a disease, and but disease does not necessarily mean "incurable". Some diseases are fixable, or have a condition/time frame.
But like the guitar, rerouting neurocircuitry this doesn't happen over night. And putting down the guitar for a year will make you stumbly when you pick it back up. So you have to keep at it. Rerouting destructive thinking is biologically powerful.
EDIT-- here's a link to a video that explains some of the modern theories on addiction. The Rat Park experiments they describe is from one of the profs of my university, Bruce Alexander. I haven't yet taken his course, but hubs did. He;s nothing short of a genius. Enjoy! https://www.ted.com/talks/johann_har...ction_is_wrong
So nobody really knows, but they are much more ahead then they were a couple decades ago. Keep in mind though that mood disorders also have this same status. There are still some polar camps in schools of thought, where some say it's biology, and others say it's environment/cognition. I personally like Gabor Mate's take of chicken or the egg.
So in terms of genetics... I read the research of folks who found a genetic connection. BUT!!! But... They openly state that their findings have limitations. First off, they found a gene that goes with all compulsive behaviour, from ADHD, gambling, addiction, rage issues to mood disorders. Cue in media release for articles stating they "found the alcoholic gene!!" Not quite. They found a gene that correlates with compulsion. It's a step ahead but it's hardly a diagnosis.
The other big variable, which comes back to Gabor Mate's chicken or the egg, is neuroplasticity--the brain's ability to reorganize itself. (Definition of Neuroplasticity)
A long time ago, if one had a stroke, and lost function of a body part, they would live the rest of their life not using said part. But they eventually discovered that with rehab, many would regain function. What was happening is that neighbouring parts of the brain were taking on the operation of the damaged area. This was a massive finding, and has changed the lives of many many people.
See the brain grows neurons, neurons die, and synaptic connections form, every day. It's very use it or lose it, like a muscle. Point is what you train ends up being what your brain does. For example, if you first pick up a guitar, your brain will be activated all over the place. and you can see it in the learner, they are all over the place. They need to stop to change hand position, they'll forget about timing, etc.
But the more you practise, the more your brain becomes efficient. Until a brain scan reveals a very fine, very efficient "audio-motor loop". What happened is that synaptic connections were formed, and strengthened, and your brain has achieved efficiency.
Now what are the implications on addiction and poor mental health? Huge! Now say you think things like "I'm a loser, I suck. I can't do anything right. Nothing feels good except booze. etc" You will train your brain to fall on those patterns. Kinda like having improper form while doing squats every day-- you exercise the muscle improperly, eventually damaging yourself.
Now if there is a gene that makes people more susceptible to crazy thought patterns? For sure that could happen. The good news though is that given neuroplasticity, that is reversible. Neuroplasticity is so prevalent--there is even a famous case of a woman born with only one side of her brain that eventually got a masters degree. Her existing brain side had taken on the functions of the non existent side.
So when you do achieve sobriety/good mental health, your brain has actually changed, through neuroplasticity. That said, and to answer the question, when you had exercised your brain to be self-destructive, I do qualify that as disease. Kinda like when I had preeclampsia while pregnant, and my placenta had started to self destruct as it was attacking my husband's genes, that make up the placenta with mine. It is a disease, and but disease does not necessarily mean "incurable". Some diseases are fixable, or have a condition/time frame.
But like the guitar, rerouting neurocircuitry this doesn't happen over night. And putting down the guitar for a year will make you stumbly when you pick it back up. So you have to keep at it. Rerouting destructive thinking is biologically powerful.
EDIT-- here's a link to a video that explains some of the modern theories on addiction. The Rat Park experiments they describe is from one of the profs of my university, Bruce Alexander. I haven't yet taken his course, but hubs did. He;s nothing short of a genius. Enjoy! https://www.ted.com/talks/johann_har...ction_is_wrong
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 13
Any advice?
Originally Posted by zerothehero
And I did it with support from my wife and dogs, a lot of reading, a lot of meditating, and a whole lot of heartache that is mostly in the past.
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
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GerandTwine,
That's an interesting read. Since I have an 18 y/o son with autism, person-first language has long been a strong interest of mine. I do not say he "is autistic", nor do I say that he "suffers from autism". These seem like petty points (and did to me as well when I first began studying this), but indeed they are not. I find the use of terms like alcoholic and addict to be huge roadblocks in ending substance abuse. While some say use of these terms is absolutely *necessary*, I strongly disagree. I am glad the powers-that-be are really beginning to think about the language used and the impact it has on success.
Thanks for the link.
That's an interesting read. Since I have an 18 y/o son with autism, person-first language has long been a strong interest of mine. I do not say he "is autistic", nor do I say that he "suffers from autism". These seem like petty points (and did to me as well when I first began studying this), but indeed they are not. I find the use of terms like alcoholic and addict to be huge roadblocks in ending substance abuse. While some say use of these terms is absolutely *necessary*, I strongly disagree. I am glad the powers-that-be are really beginning to think about the language used and the impact it has on success.
Thanks for the link.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 59
Originally Posted by bradly22
I believe it's not a disease. Some people can simply become more easily fixated than others.
I am not powerless nor have I ever believed the "powerlessness" aspect of certain recovery methods
However , once one starts using -booze , oxy , benzo whatever - their brain literally changes.
My brain is now different than one without "addiction"
I think addiction can turn into a "disease " so to speak ... in a way.
I now know that I just have an addictive personality to everything . I can and have abused many things with negative consequences.
I will never drink again- I already made that plan and it's stuck. That is good .
I now have to make a plan of sorts that I will "never consume any type of drug , supplement etc that can cause negative consequences "
Or something to they effect . Does that make sense ?
I feel as tho I will ALWAYS suffer with "addictive" tendencies.... is that part a disease ?
Idk if I'm making sense lol. Lots of thoughts , hard to put down in text from my phone lol
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 59
Originally Posted by Carlotta
This is my personal view so take it with a grain of salt (you know what they say about opinions LOL)
I think that while some of us are more predisposed to it, addiction/alcoholism is a self inflicted obsessive mental disorder.
There are many divergent opinions on that matter and while discussing it can be interesting, the priority for anyone who is having issues with their drinking is to quit and stay quit with whichever method/program/tools make sense to them.
I am really glad to see you here, sober and reaching out to others GF. Keep up the good work, there is a LOT of support here. You can do it
I think that while some of us are more predisposed to it, addiction/alcoholism is a self inflicted obsessive mental disorder.
There are many divergent opinions on that matter and while discussing it can be interesting, the priority for anyone who is having issues with their drinking is to quit and stay quit with whichever method/program/tools make sense to them.
I am really glad to see you here, sober and reaching out to others GF. Keep up the good work, there is a LOT of support here. You can do it
Thank you my dear (:
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 59
Originally Posted by Algorithm
I can't speak for Goodfellas, but for my part, this thing organized my thought patterns around a perverse mandate to drink, drink, drink, all the while concealing its existence. Once exposed, it could be defeated.
A better question for Goodfellas might be "What is your present plan for your future use of alcohol and other drugs? Are you going to drink/use again in this lifetime, or are you not?"
In other words, what exactly is your choice regarding your addiction?
A better question for Goodfellas might be "What is your present plan for your future use of alcohol and other drugs? Are you going to drink/use again in this lifetime, or are you not?"
In other words, what exactly is your choice regarding your addiction?
Well I will never drink again. I was a heavy alcoholic for sometime- I no longer drink , haven't in about 2 years - and I will never drink again
As far as your other questions - I made a couple comments in this thread and my other thread kinda touching base on that (:
Currently on a prescribed benzo lite - but I want to be done with alll vices - everything etc - no SSRI's (despite them being shoved down my throat by therapists )
I want to be done with ALL addictive ... well all things that tickle my addictive pleasure receptors .
Shopping (that has been a bad one lately ) everything
I kinda switched addictions - booze to shopping etc.
I've come to realize I will ALWAYS have that "addict" in me. Forever . I've accepted that- I just accepted that a couple days ago.
My brain is different :/ but it was a nice moment of clarity / eye opening experience .
Over all- (sidebar ) sometimes it feels lol everyone else got like
This instructions manuel on how life works . How to be an adult , how to make good decisions etc and I didn't get one
I had quite th traumatic childhood - perhaps it stems from that - idk.
But I believe my upbringing (environmental factors ) along with years of heavy (previous ) alcohol / drug abuse ... idk. Have altered my brain solehow .
I am a married father of 3- and I would give my life for my wife and 3 boys
But i feel SO different than other fathers - parents , people etc
I feel incredibly "not normal" lol - compared to others
Rambling now ! Ha
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