I have an AVRT Question, guidance welcomed

Old 10-05-2016, 04:23 PM
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Tasty that caving experience sounds awesome, totally a true reward for all the good you are doing yourself by never drinking alcohol, success and achievement and naturally occurring chemical highs, go for it!

Driving my wagon of hope through beautiful views on my road to myself
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Old 10-05-2016, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Tatsy View Post
I'm worried that people won't believe the miracle that has happened to me. Sorry, it isn't a miracle, I DID IT. I STOPPED DRINKING and I still cannot believe it!!
Believe it, Tatsy !!!

Any thoughts that you aren't really recovered, and that it's not really over until it's really over is just the addictive voice itself supporting -- you guessed it -- more drinking!

If that idea comes from someone else, just recognize it as their AV being projected onto you, and treat it as you would your own. No need to reason with them, to explain, to debate, or anything. Just recognize the implied support for more drinking embedded in that idea. Dismissed.

Originally Posted by Tatsy View Post
You see, I went from being an alcoholic for two decades, the last decade the worst, the last five years worse still, equivalent of 3 bottles of red wine a day, more than 750ml/ a fifth of vodka a day to STOPPING!
AVRT is for the really tough cases, Tatsy, the "hopeless" ones that have tried everything else. AVRT is the art of direct warfare on the addictive mentality itself, without taking any detours.

Originally Posted by Tatsy View Post
I realise that if I can stop drinking, I can complete an extreme adventure, I can do anything.
This is a remarkable thread, Tatsy. You can literally see your transformation, see the progress, see the jail break from the prison of addiction in the making. Best of all, it is saved for posterity, available for anyone to read in the future.

Perhaps one day someone who is lurking will read this thread, and decide to do precisely what you did. There is a large amount of free AVRT insight on this Secular Connections forum, and now your jail break story is a part of it.

As Freshstart57 likes to say... Onward!
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Old 10-24-2016, 07:55 AM
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Yikes! After writing an enormous response post, containing multiple quotes from the brilliant posters on my thread (to whom I haven't replied since my last post) I accidently lost it!

Therefore, to Delizidee, Freshstart, LBrain, Dwtb, Tursops, CelticZebra and Algorithm: Thankyou for your fantastic support, encouragement and words of wisdom!

I am transforming. As a massive procrastinator whilst under the influence of alcohol for years, I've an enormous list of tasks to address and it's daunting. I feel like a little girl thrown into an ex-addicts body. Out of my depth at times. But yet, at others, it's awesomely fantabulistic and the highs are massively larger than the muffled lows.

Occasionally the Beast kicks in with the opportunistic Addictive Voice, "Why don't your cut yourself a little slack. You've succeeded, you're now a normal drinker, no longer physically dependant. Let your hair down once in a while, like normal people, relax, chill out". My Beast remains a trier! But it's no match for me. I'm now wise to it's single minded path to destruction. I've chosen the opposite path: life.

Just want to recount my latest excursion. I attended a concert with my husband. I love concerts, but this is the first after years (alcohol bill didn't allow luxuries). I've never attended a concert sober. It was a historic group from my early twenties. I really did let my hair down, full concert mode. Dancing, waving arms, loud applauding, hooting, shouting more, more etc., at the finale.

My husband was concerned by my behaviour, he asked whether I'd started drinking. I was offended, but he explained that I was so uninhibited that he believed it was caused by alcohol. The irony is, when I attended concerts whilst drinking, I'd be inhibited (whilst secretly envying those outwardly enjoying themselves) because I didn't want to disclose how drunk I was!

This time, I was sober and my behaviour was the natural high, the exhilaration of liberation! The ability to listen to every guitar riff, each voice, watch the lighting show, all of it, filling my senses in full glorious technicolor.

With the interval came the stampeding feet to the various bars. I had a soft drink and watched people, noted the gulping of the first drink, then the second, the picking up of another in a plastic cup for the second half. The loud, repititive voices, the glazed eyes.

I am just so very grateful to this secular AVRT thread and its occupants. I was on the final slope down into the abyss and truthfully, I wondered at times, why I hadn't already died due to the huge amounts drank over such a lengthy period.

If a newcomer happens upon this thread, having found that other methods of stopping drinking haven't worked for them; then I urge you to suspend disbelief and try alternative methods. I did and I credit it with enabling myself to stop drinking.

Sadly, whilst I struggled to stop drinking for many years, I believed that the power to do so was outside myself. It was only when I realised that the power to stop drinking was within me, my own free-will, that I grasped that internal power by utilising Rational Recovery's AVRT, that I finally managed to save myself.

Onwards!
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Old 10-24-2016, 01:12 PM
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Indeed!
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Old 10-24-2016, 01:35 PM
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Exhilaration of liberation. Tatsy, you have the best words. In the history of words, yours are the best.
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Old 10-24-2016, 06:52 PM
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Wow.

I just read this amazing thread from the beginning. So much good stuff...so inspiring! I'm so happy for you Tatsy. Breaking free really is so effing cool. It's hard to express, but you're doing a beautiful job expressing it.

Jumping from high things, going fast, dancing in a crowd lol you remind me of me
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Old 10-27-2016, 03:20 AM
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That natural high is so good! I love outdoors festivals and live music and am so happy I can properly feel the good feelings and get into the vibe...... so much more liberating when we can soak up the atmosphere and be amongst others, have a good time and be able to remember the good times because there is very little bad stuff that happens really.
The drinking for fun is such a myth, I'm loving the freedom you are finding Tasty, it's so good here on the other side of alcoholism, like the past was one weird nightmare and life has re-started again. For me the freedom is like that I had as a teen but better for the lack of toxic substances and so much nicer when it passes into memory... Building new, good memories helps the brain to recover quicker IMO, replacing the horrible dark thoughts with those of euphoria and hope for continued good feelings.
You have so got this Jess....
Keep rocking!

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Old 11-05-2016, 06:34 AM
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My dear friends and posters on my thread.

I am forever indebted to each and everyone of you for your guidance, wisdom, support and kindness (Freshstart, flattery will get you everywhere!).

Although I don't count days, out of curiosity, I flicked back and noted my Big Plan date - 9th September 2016. Two months in a few days. Why I didn't do this two decades ago, is beyond me. But so too are the recriminations, regrets and despondency: they have no place in this brave new world of mine. I wallowed in those insane feelings for far too long, whilst drinking.

Now that I'm firmly placed on the non-drinker path, until the end of my days, I have much rebuilding and living to do. I stagnated and rotted during, what should've been, the best decades of my life. Hey-Ho, it happened, I've moved on.

I've suffered dreadful intrusive thoughts, regarding a distressing incident I witnessed a couple of years ago. I reflected on AVRT and thought of the brain as a computer, randomly selecting memory files like a juke box, without my permission.

I decided to 'play' that intrusive thought scene (graphic and horrid as it was -if I'd consulted a doctor I guess they'd call it PTSD) and then replace the scene, with Teletubbies and Sesame Street type humorous characters. I did this repeatedly, and amazingly, it worked. No more intrusive thoughts and when I purposely 'open' that memory file, there are no gory details, just funny characters. Akin to over-writing a file in a computer program after a virus, I suppose.

Well I'm rambling now, but my point is, the mind is so powerful. The success of AVRT for me, after decades of struggling, trying, is proof of that. Yet the mind appears to have additional capacities, which have yet to be documented. We are living in enlightening times.
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Old 11-05-2016, 07:15 AM
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Teletubbies! <3

I'm so happy that your feet are planted in your brave new world. As scary as it can be at times, it's far less scary to me than the out-of-control autopilot I was lived in for so long. I was at the mercy of literally everything...

I often visualize my life before as me swimming in a sea of booze...treading hard, but barely keeping my head above water. Underneath me in the depths was fear in many forms, constantly tugging my legs trying to pull me under. But fear was also above me, keeping me from climbing out of the sea. I was stuck right there. What I didn't know then was that the fear was not all around me, outside of me. It was within me. When I understood that, I felt I had more control over how to deal with it. It was not some outside entity coming at me randomly in various monster masks, it was something I could face and reframe and actually conquer so to speak.
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Old 11-09-2016, 10:52 AM
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Oh Soberlicious, it's so heart-warming that you understand. I adore your analogies, I couldn't have described those fears better. Fear of sinking, fear of rising. All appearing outwith, but they were within, all the time.

Fear restrained me for many years. I couldn't comprehend how stopping drinking would benefit me. I was terrified of living without alcohol which had become my crutch, at the same time destroying me. I didn't realise that it wasn't a crutch, but a massive leaden anchor, tying me underwater and unable to rise above and reach the light.

I realise I'm akin to a broken record or CD (showing my age) MP3 or download....but truly, AVRT has saved my life!

It's simply amazing. I look in the mirror (never used to, just unwanted glimpses previously, to check whether my eyes were yellow) and I don't recognise myself. Bloatedness gone, red face patches and veins fading, hooded eyelids receded; eyes, would you believe it, white!

I wake in the morning and step out of bed, instead of lying there, feeling grim and pressing the alarm snooze button for a couple of hours.

What, on earth was I afraid of? A better life? Drinking alcohol to excess is madness. Life without alcohol is superb, I keep thinking I'll come back down to earth soon, but I know I won't. Because this freedom is my new reality and I'll never let it escape me.

The Beast is dying. Long live me, my Authentic Voice the ruler (me the human) and trumping the Addictive Voice (the Beast's - mis-directed survival drive).

PS. The re-visualisation of which I spoke previously, which proved effective for me; I have since discovered is a new therapy for intrusive thoughts!
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Old 11-29-2016, 12:53 PM
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Ugh, I just don't know what purpose I serve here, as a non-drinker, achieved via adopting AVRT. For me, as a previous recovery group person, this method is exclusive and as I'm in control of not drinking, I'm also not dependant upon outside sources to aid my sobriety.

I do believe in 'paying it forward' but there's so little footfall in this 'Secular Connections' thread. When I visit the Newcomers Thread, I sense an under-whelming response to non-recovery group methods; but perhaps I'm just too sensitive to nuances.

After actively engaging in drinking for over two decades, I've much rebuilding to do. I've been sober for almost three months, but it might as well be three years, non-drinking is so deeply entrenched and I'll never drink again.

I'm absolutely committed to carrying the message, but how do I do that? To be honest, I feel so frustrated that I'm unable to guide folks to the path I've followed, the path to shake the alcohol addiction shackles free. I'm so saddened to read the Newcomers thread and some of their struggles. I want to grab them by the hand and lead the way, to prevent them suffering for two decades as I did. But I don't know how!

Or should I just bow out now, as a success story? It's just so frustrating and upsetting, I wish I'd posted my AVRT question thread decades ago, followed the guidance and saved my self the loss of a huge chunk of my life to addiction. That's what I wish for other folks, for them to circumvent the struggling and suffering I encountered for so many years, until I learnt and practised AVRT.

I just don't know what to do, leave SR or keep posting.
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Old 11-29-2016, 02:01 PM
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Well, I come and go as far as posting. I've met some really nice ppl that I occasionally visit with online outside of SR. I think for me, I do like responding to newcomers because I understand the really crap feeling of being addicted (as we all do). I also understand the feeling of complete despair, as I attempted suicide. I try to approach them where they are at, especially if they ask questions about self-recovery (i.e. Is it possible to quit without a higher power? Is it possible to quit without meetings?, etc) and I often ask if they've tried other methods, if they have a plan, etc.

I think it's a good thing to want to pay it forward, Tatsy. I firmly believe that quitting is a deeply personal and internal thing, but I also believe that as humans we like to see others succeed and find peace. So talking with others about your path is a good thing. That said, don't expect that it will be well received all the time. Sometimes 100% confidence in yourself as a nondrinker can be perceived as arrogant (at least that's what I've been called on several occasions), and giving reasons why you don't adhere to the tenets of recoveryism can be perceived as bashing, but that's ok really. We don't all speak the same language per se, but I still think it's important to communicate regardless.

Your responses to others are always genuine. Continue to speak your truth whenever you want to
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Old 11-29-2016, 03:32 PM
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My own Path, Tatsy, is to approach All Things Recovery quite like the Evening News: I carefully take in only measured doses of either. In the last few Weeks, I've cut my Evening News intake to nearly zero.

I drank increasingly hard over 42 Years. Honest to gosh, I've never thought about 'lost time', or wallowed in 'Regret_itis'. While I personally don't believe in Predestination, I do believe that it took me exactly 42 Years of that Existence to achieve the Plane of my current Sober Existence. Really. I don't believe there's a 'Speed Sobriety' Path anymore than there's a 'Speed Meditation/Enlightenment Breakthrough' Path. *Giggle*

If there were some magical Shortcut - including listening prior to Advice from those contently Sober - I would have taken it. But, there wasn't. I carry this profound Understanding forward, and read in very measured doses about Relapses, and really trashed Lives here. And, hear about them IRL, of course. Quite sparingly. My Sobriety is not enhanced by me bumming out.

Personally, I think about all we can do is provide Witness, and hope it infuses into a few Folks. I view it as a measure of my own State Of Recovery that I can provide 'only' that, and be satisfied with providing 'only' that. It's not as though I can strap an Electronic Helmet onto someone, and hit a Switch to Neurally jolt 'Sober Experience' into them, eh?

In any case, I hope you hit your stride on this, and on other challenging aspects of Recovery. IMO, truly Recovered Folks don't give me guff about 'my way'. They nod, and support it w/o condesension, or in a tone dripping with hints that I'll fail someday. I just don't see an upside to that POV, so I don't hang with those exhibiting it. Either here, or IRL. Personally, I believe you can stay here on SR and limit your dose of anything frustrating. If that's what you want to do. It's Work sometimes, to be sure. Meanwhile, one recurring Theme in Stories is that Folks Sober up when they make the Soul-deep Commitment to do so. The chosen, successful Regimen then follows from that Soul-deep Decision. You appear to have that Commitment. Who cares what 'Month' *in* you were when you experienced that Epiphany? ~42 Years... ~20 Years... I don't think the Calendar matters much re: a Personal Sober Epiphany. So, I reject that Calendar-based Construct.

There's too much Sober 'Positive' out there to bask in, and emulate. To be a Sober 'Winner', hang with Sober Winners - wherever - working a Regimen you can relate to, and see the sense of. Ironically, some Folks being all busy concerning themselves with lil Sober Metrics and 'approved' Guidelines miss out, IMO, on the essence of simply Living Sober. It's as if they're so busy planning the next stop on their Vacation, they forget to enjoy their Vacation.

- Don't Give Up ~ Peter Gabriel -
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Old 11-29-2016, 06:05 PM
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Nicely said Mesa Man,
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Old 11-29-2016, 06:56 PM
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Tatsy,
sharing your own experience is surely useful and gives newcomers the opportunity to choose to follow up with you if or when t hey're interested.

having a preponderance of one way presented in the newcomer forum isn't due to the presence of the people promoting one view as much as to the absence of other experiences voiced.

so share

as a side note, I find it interesting to read that you have now an understanding for the desire to grab and guide, and can see how that genuine desire to 'help' can so easily be derailed into attempts to grab and guide. how enthusiasm and conviction might easily slide into proselytizing.
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Old 11-29-2016, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Tatsy View Post
Ugh, I just don't know what purpose I serve here, as a non-drinker... I do believe in 'paying it forward' but there's so little footfall in this 'Secular Connections' thread.
You may think that there is little foot traffic, because not as many people post as elsewhere, but take a look at the "views" counter on this thread alone, Tatsy. As of right now, I see that 2,885 different members have viewed your thread.

The counter does not go up if the same member views a thread more than once, and I don't believe it goes up when lurkers read it, either, and there are probably four lurkers for every member. People may not be posting, but someone is definitely reading.

Originally Posted by Tatsy View Post
When I visit the Newcomers Thread, I sense an under-whelming response to non-recovery group methods; but perhaps I'm just too sensitive to nuances.
You have to remember that addicted people usually doubt their own ability to escape from the prison of addiction, a feeling which their Addictive Voice will certainly reinforce. In that context, there is a strange appeal to the support group idea, and accounts for much of the instant bonding between the newly abstinent.

Eventually, though, a number of them may realize that a pool filled with non-swimmers is not necessarily a good place to learn how to swim on their own, and that they might possibly do better by finding some experienced swimmers to learn from. Their AV will naturally steer them elsewhere, however.

Originally Posted by Tatsy View Post
I'm absolutely committed to carrying the message, but how do I do that? To be honest, I feel so frustrated that I'm unable to guide folks to the path I've followed, the path to shake the alcohol addiction shackles free.
It may help for you to understand that AVRT is a seed idea that usually builds on its own, and helps you see straight once again. Your own experience with AVRT would appear to validate this. In other words, there is no need to carry the message, in the style of the RGM, per se.

AVRT is recovery as education, not treatment, and it can be learned from reading, from discussion, and from seeing it in action. How many tens of thousands who do not post have read through the AVRT discussion threads and finally gotten it, as you did, I wonder?

Probably far more than its progenitors envisioned at the outset.

Originally Posted by Tatsy View Post
I'm so saddened to read the Newcomers thread and some of their struggles. I want to grab them by the hand and lead the way, to prevent them suffering for two decades as I did. But I don't know how!
Rational Recovery does not officially take credit for the success of people who use AVRT to recover from addiction, but I'm content to simply have a descriptor under my user name saying that I use AVRT. If anyone is interested in learning more, they can contact me rather easily.

Others on the forums, including those in recovery groups, have similar descriptors in their signature, so I can't say that I came up with this idea. I may have stolen the idea from freshstart57.

Sometimes I will ask provocative questions to flush out the Beast, however. It loves to hide from its host, after all.

Originally Posted by Tatsy View Post
It's just so frustrating and upsetting, I wish I'd posted my AVRT question thread decades ago, followed the guidance and saved my self the loss of a huge chunk of my life to addiction.
I would wager that many people share your frustration there, Tatsy, but life is a learning experience, unfortunately. We can't undo the past, however, so don't let the Beast wield any regrets you may have as a club.

Originally Posted by Tatsy View Post
That's what I wish for other folks, for them to circumvent the struggling and suffering I encountered for so many years, until I learnt and practised AVRT.

I just don't know what to do, leave SR or keep posting.
As far as AVRT goes, leaving SR would not pose any problem, and RR encourages moving on to independent living, even from their own web site. If you are sincere about wanting to help others avoid your mistakes, or if you simply want to contribute to the discussion, you could keep posting, to the extent that free time allows.

From where I stand, I believe that you could contribute more than many others, given how you've absorbed some of the concepts of AVRT. It's up to you, however, so no pressure.
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Old 11-30-2016, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Tatsy View Post
I just don't know what to do, leave SR or keep posting.
It was posts such as yours that helped me realize that I wasn't crazy, that I wasn't missing something. They helped me realize that I could box up a brain full of old ideas and chuck them in the trash. They helped me realize that no matter what method I choose, even none at all, my sobriety was going to be entirely up to me and my choice. However, 25 years of messaging didn't want to leave my brain easily, so it is nice to come back here and get a quick refresher.

Now I work my own thing borrowed heavily from AVRT and I am fine with that.
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Old 11-30-2016, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Tatsy View Post
Ugh, I just don't know what purpose I serve here, as a non-drinker, achieved via adopting AVRT. For me, as a previous recovery group person, this method is exclusive and as I'm in control of not drinking, I'm also not dependant upon outside sources to aid my sobriety.[...]

I just don't know what to do, leave SR or keep posting.
That is an interesting comment that echoes my thoughts, or at least it did early on. I discovered AVRT in Oct 2012 and it saved my life! I took my last drink on the 2nd of Oct and have been 100% sober every since.

Yet here I still am, 4000 posts later! It's hard to put it into words why I stay. First off I am well aware that while I have caged my Beast, the Beast has not been slain. It's important to remember that! I come here in part to remind myself how bad it was back when I drank.

But I guess paying it forward is the real reason I have stayed. If you found a cure for a deadly disease, would you cure yourself and then remain silent? Or would you want to share that cure with everyone you knew that was sick? Setting aside the question of whether or not alcoholism a disease, AVRT has been my cure. Or at it least it keeps me in permanent remission.

There was a time that I trudged through my life from day to day like a machine; no hope, no prospects of ever breaking the cycle of misery I was locked into. A recurring loop of misery. But I broke out of the loop, broke that cycle that had dominated my life for 25 years.

I want to offer that hope to others! I have come to believe that hope is our most precious asset, more importance than wealth or fame. No matter how bad your life is, no matter how low addiction has brought you, no matter how long you've been a drinker- there is still hope! That is the message I want to yell from the mountaintops to anyone that will listen.
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Old 12-01-2016, 03:04 AM
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I used to be a bit disappointed that there can be periods of inactivity in here. But, I think it was my old learning about treating addiction that made me think it should be a busy place. Now I take a strange comfort that it can fall quiet for days or weeks at a time, because I also know I can make a quick post and people will chime back in - lots of familiar names and still sober.
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Old 12-01-2016, 10:38 AM
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My dear friends, I'm both enlightened and humbled by your thoughtful responses to my frustration and question.

As you know, having kindly followed my thread, it was only as a consequence of reading your responses, that I suspended disbelief and studied AVRT and the posts on Secular Connections.

I did so because it was evident from your posts that you were intelligent, resourceful, had suffered alcohol addiction, and then successfully applied the technique and achieved contentment in permanent sobriety, without conditions, under your own power.

I absolutely wanted what you portrayed and I'm indebted to you all for creating that attraction, which gave me hope and confidence that AVRT would work and thereby, I'd reclaim my life and be free from the prison of addiction.

I'll write again soon, before I waffle on more (as I feel rather emotional). Thank you all, for being here.
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