I have an AVRT Question, guidance welcomed
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
Bravo, Tatsy! Congratulations to you. This achievement makes you a bona fide BADASS, you must understand. You need a special hat. Wear it proudly, and in sparkling good health. Onward!
Quit 4/17/15
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Pa
Posts: 15,180
Congrats Tasty!
I too want to say that I quit cold turkey using the AVRT Crash Course and reading a few books. I did not discover SR until many months in. Once I found out that I had the power, I simply stopped drinking. Mind you, I drank seven days a week for three decades.
Now, when I have a random drinking thought, I recognize it as my AV and I just tell it no, and it retreats. It will become much easier as your AV recognizes that it is no longer in control of your life.
This on line crash course probably saved my life. I recognized that I would not be one to go the AA and daily meeting route. Whatever works to get one to quit is the best method. But for me, AVRT made sense and the last 17 months I have been alcohol free have been the best 17 months of my life!
I too want to say that I quit cold turkey using the AVRT Crash Course and reading a few books. I did not discover SR until many months in. Once I found out that I had the power, I simply stopped drinking. Mind you, I drank seven days a week for three decades.
Now, when I have a random drinking thought, I recognize it as my AV and I just tell it no, and it retreats. It will become much easier as your AV recognizes that it is no longer in control of your life.
This on line crash course probably saved my life. I recognized that I would not be one to go the AA and daily meeting route. Whatever works to get one to quit is the best method. But for me, AVRT made sense and the last 17 months I have been alcohol free have been the best 17 months of my life!
Not The Way way, Just the way
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: US
Posts: 1,413
Originally Posted by Tatsy 
...Yesterday was the last drink day. I'm not expecting easy withdrawals, but I'm prepared and also have the CIWA-r sheet to check symptoms.
So, I've made my BP. ...
So, I've made my BP. ...
Your quote is from 4 days ago.
How are you doing on the T of R'ing your AV?
GT
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,654
Thank you to everyone who has sent me congratulations
.
Hello Stargazer, thank for for your encouragement. I too drank for decades and the recovery group steps program was ineffective, for me. I'm glad you found AVRT and saved your life. I'm so thrilled I read the posts and the secular site and received PMs. AVRT has saved me too.
Hello GerandTwine, thank you for asking after me. The withdrawals were pretty rough physically; although little IT action - until yesterday.
I've realised the Beast was pleased that I booked the caving experience and concert. I admit the caving was a long shot, but I wanted a focus to excercise, eat healthily and get fitter.
The Beast attacked suddenly. "What on earth have I done! I've wasted that money, the experience organiser will take one look at me and refuse me entry. What a fool I am. I might as well cancel it and go buy some drink now". I felt completely deflated, sad, depressed".
But I concentrated and remembered weighing up the time interval and viability of booking, and proceeded on the basis it was achievable. Then it struck me, that what I heard berating me, was my Beast's AV! I quickly re-read the 'Beast Strikes Back' chapter in RR. As I was unsure whether to ignore it or perhaps challenge it.
I challenged it, reminding IT that I had made the trip decision based upon logic that I would be fit enough and I told it I would not drink, no matter what.
IT retorted with "But you don't understand, I'm only thinking of you. It's a dangerous experience. You could break your foot or wrist. Do you remember years ago, when you had fractures. You might as well give up this health drive and go buy some drink".
IT called me YOU. I was astounded.
Later, IT said "You may as well cancel the concert, because you won't be able to attend as it will act as a trigger. You always used to drink at concerts. So if you're going to properly enjoy the concert, then you'll have to drink. So you might as well carry on drinking now and make a new BP after the concert". Let's go and buy some drink now"
So that AV used YOU and US in the same attack.
Later, IT said you've done well today. Been productive. Let's go buy some drink and sit down by the stream as the sun fades". IT called me 'US'.!!!!
When I tried to combat cravings previously, I used the term AV as it's universal in recovery groups. But the RR AVRT usage and Technique is utterly and entirely different. There is no battling with it. I just say NO, I never drink and I will never drink again: I mean it and I believe it. Consequently, the AV voice and the anxious, uncomfortable craving physiological feelings, all disappear.
Sorry to ramble, but this such a revelation to me. I am over the physical shaky feelings now. But this morning, my hands began to shake, as they did de-toxins. I heard the AV say "Oh look, it's not over yet. You'd better buy some drink . Just enough to taper, if you need it, for safety". I said NO etc., and within minutes my hands stopped shaking!
The Beast then became inventive and imaginative. I took the dogs to the stream. One began digging in the stream bed. I heard the AV say, at the same time as feeling nervous trepidation...." OMG!... The dog's scented a dead body, buried in the stream bed. Go out NOW and buy some drink. You'll need a few drinks to steady your nerves before calling the police. And get enough for later on too, when they discover the cadaver or body parts!"
I just smiled. Said NO etc., and my anxious feelings settled, the AV became quiet, and I calmly sat, enjoying watching my dog innocently digging.
I just can't explain it adequately. I feel in control, empowered. When I first encountered AVRT, it sounded so simple, too good to be true. I've now discovered how powerful and life changing it is.
I just caught myself about to type "It's early days, but so far it's working". Instantly I stopped, as I recognised the AV at play again! It's persistent.
.Hello Stargazer, thank for for your encouragement. I too drank for decades and the recovery group steps program was ineffective, for me. I'm glad you found AVRT and saved your life. I'm so thrilled I read the posts and the secular site and received PMs. AVRT has saved me too.
Hello GerandTwine, thank you for asking after me. The withdrawals were pretty rough physically; although little IT action - until yesterday.
I've realised the Beast was pleased that I booked the caving experience and concert. I admit the caving was a long shot, but I wanted a focus to excercise, eat healthily and get fitter.
The Beast attacked suddenly. "What on earth have I done! I've wasted that money, the experience organiser will take one look at me and refuse me entry. What a fool I am. I might as well cancel it and go buy some drink now". I felt completely deflated, sad, depressed".
But I concentrated and remembered weighing up the time interval and viability of booking, and proceeded on the basis it was achievable. Then it struck me, that what I heard berating me, was my Beast's AV! I quickly re-read the 'Beast Strikes Back' chapter in RR. As I was unsure whether to ignore it or perhaps challenge it.
I challenged it, reminding IT that I had made the trip decision based upon logic that I would be fit enough and I told it I would not drink, no matter what.
IT retorted with "But you don't understand, I'm only thinking of you. It's a dangerous experience. You could break your foot or wrist. Do you remember years ago, when you had fractures. You might as well give up this health drive and go buy some drink".
IT called me YOU. I was astounded.
Later, IT said "You may as well cancel the concert, because you won't be able to attend as it will act as a trigger. You always used to drink at concerts. So if you're going to properly enjoy the concert, then you'll have to drink. So you might as well carry on drinking now and make a new BP after the concert". Let's go and buy some drink now"
So that AV used YOU and US in the same attack.
Later, IT said you've done well today. Been productive. Let's go buy some drink and sit down by the stream as the sun fades". IT called me 'US'.!!!!
When I tried to combat cravings previously, I used the term AV as it's universal in recovery groups. But the RR AVRT usage and Technique is utterly and entirely different. There is no battling with it. I just say NO, I never drink and I will never drink again: I mean it and I believe it. Consequently, the AV voice and the anxious, uncomfortable craving physiological feelings, all disappear.
Sorry to ramble, but this such a revelation to me. I am over the physical shaky feelings now. But this morning, my hands began to shake, as they did de-toxins. I heard the AV say "Oh look, it's not over yet. You'd better buy some drink . Just enough to taper, if you need it, for safety". I said NO etc., and within minutes my hands stopped shaking!
The Beast then became inventive and imaginative. I took the dogs to the stream. One began digging in the stream bed. I heard the AV say, at the same time as feeling nervous trepidation...." OMG!... The dog's scented a dead body, buried in the stream bed. Go out NOW and buy some drink. You'll need a few drinks to steady your nerves before calling the police. And get enough for later on too, when they discover the cadaver or body parts!"
I just smiled. Said NO etc., and my anxious feelings settled, the AV became quiet, and I calmly sat, enjoying watching my dog innocently digging.
I just can't explain it adequately. I feel in control, empowered. When I first encountered AVRT, it sounded so simple, too good to be true. I've now discovered how powerful and life changing it is.
I just caught myself about to type "It's early days, but so far it's working". Instantly I stopped, as I recognised the AV at play again! It's persistent.
quat
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: terra (mostly)firma
Posts: 4,823
It is I who have done it! Don't you want to know my motive?
Howard Roark:
No!
Ellsworth Toohey:
I'm fighting you and shall fight you in every way I can.
Howard Roark:
You're free to do what you please!
Ellsworth Toohey:
Mr. Roark, we're alone here. Why don't you tell me what you think of me in any words you wish.
Howard Roark:
But I don't think of you!
[Roark walks away and Toohey's head slumps down]
your post reminded me of this scene , and You Rock !
Howard Roark:
No!
Ellsworth Toohey:
I'm fighting you and shall fight you in every way I can.
Howard Roark:
You're free to do what you please!
Ellsworth Toohey:
Mr. Roark, we're alone here. Why don't you tell me what you think of me in any words you wish.
Howard Roark:
But I don't think of you!
[Roark walks away and Toohey's head slumps down]
your post reminded me of this scene , and You Rock !
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 847
Originally Posted by Tatsy
IT called me YOU. I was astounded.
Originally Posted by Tatsy
When I tried to combat cravings previously, I used the term AV as it's universal in recovery groups. But the RR AVRT usage and Technique is utterly and entirely different. There is no battling with it. I just say NO, I never drink and I will never drink again: I mean it and I believe it. Consequently, the AV voice and the anxious, uncomfortable craving physiological feelings, all disappear.
You may soon discover that the Beast is not impressed at all by what you have to say, so there is no need to debate with it regarding the merits of drinking or using. It only has one answer to every question.
This is why the "R" in AVRT stands for recognition, not reasoning with, not removal, and not running away from. Recognized and separated from your true self as the voice of the Beast, it has no power, and can gain little traction.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,654
Dwtbd, I loved that extract from The Fountainhead. That's how it feels, the AV launching its smear campaign against me - whilst I stand tall, proud and true to my authentic self! I'll try that line next time, and ignore it and treat it as a non-entity.
Algorithm, thank you for your supportive words and I really appreciate your advice a d explanation. I wonder if I can pick your AVRT knowledge base? Plus, everyone else's, of course.
I've read on this site of the existence of AV challenge excercises. Do these exist and if so, can you point me in the right direction and also, what are your opinions upon the merits of applying them; particularly given that my BP was made last week. I've re-read the AVRT cure and can't locate any references.
Thanking you all in anticipation
.
Algorithm, thank you for your supportive words and I really appreciate your advice a d explanation. I wonder if I can pick your AVRT knowledge base? Plus, everyone else's, of course.
I've read on this site of the existence of AV challenge excercises. Do these exist and if so, can you point me in the right direction and also, what are your opinions upon the merits of applying them; particularly given that my BP was made last week. I've re-read the AVRT cure and can't locate any references.
Thanking you all in anticipation
.
Not The Way way, Just the way
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: US
Posts: 1,413
Originally Posted by Tatsy
I've read on this site of the existence of AV challenge excercises. Do these exist and if so, can you point me in the right direction and also, what are your opinions upon the merits of applying them; particularly given that my BP was made last week. I've re-read the AVRT cure and can't locate any references.
Thanking you all in anticipation.
Thanking you all in anticipation
.I think "AV challenge" exercises are the same as "shifting" exercises. There's also the five second example of holding up your hand and saying "OK, Beast, let's see you wiggle my fingers against my will."
The Beast is a creature of depression then drink. The idea that walking your dog might result in finding a dead body and you'd better be ready to have something to drink to manage the trauma is a textbook classic example. Well done.
I didn't see any motivation to do "shifting" while my Beast was so creative, as yours now is, in its single minded drive to get me to question my permanent abstinence. But if you find yourself in the booze isle at the grocery store, sure, turn and stand for a moment and look at ITs stuff and practice shifting back and forth between ITs feelings and YOUR feelings; harmless, and ultimately enlightening on the efficacy of AVRT with a Big Plan.
GT
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,654
Thank you GerandTwine, once again for your clarification and advice.
I too haven't found the need to 'shift' as yet. I'm totally averse to drinking and since my detachment from the AV; together with compartmentalisation of its thoughts, images and associated physiological sensations (anxiousness, depression etc.) I've found it easy to dismiss them as my Beast's attempts to persuade me to resume drinking.
To reach this point however, wasn't easy. It's taken years of reading almost every addiction related book, viewing almost every video and so on; none of which worked when I applied the methods illustrated.
I'm still in awe that AVRT has actually worked. I have found the key to unlock the cell door of the prison of my addiction.
I suppose it took the gift of desperation, in order to suspend my reservations. Together with the examples of AVRT believers on SR, who had what I wanted. Sobriety, without strings, conditions or contingents.
I too haven't found the need to 'shift' as yet. I'm totally averse to drinking and since my detachment from the AV; together with compartmentalisation of its thoughts, images and associated physiological sensations (anxiousness, depression etc.) I've found it easy to dismiss them as my Beast's attempts to persuade me to resume drinking.
To reach this point however, wasn't easy. It's taken years of reading almost every addiction related book, viewing almost every video and so on; none of which worked when I applied the methods illustrated.
I'm still in awe that AVRT has actually worked. I have found the key to unlock the cell door of the prison of my addiction.
I suppose it took the gift of desperation, in order to suspend my reservations. Together with the examples of AVRT believers on SR, who had what I wanted. Sobriety, without strings, conditions or contingents.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 508
I'm back and headed for 3 years sober in a few weeks.
I saw this thread and found, similar to the OP, that I'd also found SR and the online AVRT crash course some years ago, for me it was around the same time my drinking had become out of control and I had attended a few different AA meetings knowing that I had to do something yet it is still a distant blurred memory as I continued to drink then.
I learnt a few things and thought I would try moderation, after all, it couldn't be that it was anything as bad as being an alcoholic...
I used to be a binge-drinking party girl that never resisted temptation and didn't know how to say No or look after myself, always my own worst enemy!
Sorry, just a bit of background so then I moved house, loads of stress occurred, difficult situations and, at my wits end I devoted a day, a week, and whatever time it took to absorb my BP.
I had an epiphany, I trust myself not to drink alcohol because I now no longer drink.
Almost 3 years ago I was such a nervous wreck , I didn't leave the house for almost 2 weeks, so scared of failing again to commit to forever.
My journey has been and is a long one, as are many others.
The joy and enthusiasm I read in these posts reminds me of those early days of sobriety where my AV was strong.
Time spent reading about the marvellous ways in which the human brain works and reading the Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle, Rational Recovery by Jack Trimpney and allowing myself to carve out a different plan for my life that doesn't include abandoning myself or my responsibilities to addictive, maladaptive behaviours.
I too read loads from Terminally Unique when I first quit the booze, the power of words and those here at SR have been my lifeline when I had no support then.
I hope things are still progressing for your plans to keep on keeping on and doing this thing.
I am inspired to write here after viewing this thread and recognising that no matter how far we have been, no matter how far we have come, we all need to stay connected and remember how awesome life is when we can appreciate it.
I appreciate all of you and your wonderful words.
Thanks for reading.
Driving my wagon of hope through beautiful views on my road to myself
I saw this thread and found, similar to the OP, that I'd also found SR and the online AVRT crash course some years ago, for me it was around the same time my drinking had become out of control and I had attended a few different AA meetings knowing that I had to do something yet it is still a distant blurred memory as I continued to drink then.
I learnt a few things and thought I would try moderation, after all, it couldn't be that it was anything as bad as being an alcoholic...
I used to be a binge-drinking party girl that never resisted temptation and didn't know how to say No or look after myself, always my own worst enemy!
Sorry, just a bit of background so then I moved house, loads of stress occurred, difficult situations and, at my wits end I devoted a day, a week, and whatever time it took to absorb my BP.
I had an epiphany, I trust myself not to drink alcohol because I now no longer drink.
Almost 3 years ago I was such a nervous wreck , I didn't leave the house for almost 2 weeks, so scared of failing again to commit to forever.
My journey has been and is a long one, as are many others.
The joy and enthusiasm I read in these posts reminds me of those early days of sobriety where my AV was strong.
Time spent reading about the marvellous ways in which the human brain works and reading the Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle, Rational Recovery by Jack Trimpney and allowing myself to carve out a different plan for my life that doesn't include abandoning myself or my responsibilities to addictive, maladaptive behaviours.
I too read loads from Terminally Unique when I first quit the booze, the power of words and those here at SR have been my lifeline when I had no support then.
I hope things are still progressing for your plans to keep on keeping on and doing this thing.
I am inspired to write here after viewing this thread and recognising that no matter how far we have been, no matter how far we have come, we all need to stay connected and remember how awesome life is when we can appreciate it.
I appreciate all of you and your wonderful words.
Thanks for reading.
Driving my wagon of hope through beautiful views on my road to myself
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 847
Originally Posted by Tatsy
I've read on this site of the existence ]of AV challenge excercises... I've re-read the AVRT cure and can't locate any references.
You can ask it something along the lines of "supposing that we were to drink again one day, what conditions would lead to that?"
Listen carefully for the echo, and the AV may chime in with some scenario, showing you its bag of tricks ahead of time. You can then ask "OK, what else would lead to that?" to repeat.
It can either be amusing, if the scenarios are familiar, or shocking, depending on what you hear, and how you shift between the Beast's point of view and yours. I'm actually living one unlikely scenario my Beast once threw at me when I tried this.
It told me that if I were injured one day in the future and unable to go about normal living, then it would be a perfect time to drink. I had a rather serious accident recently, and have broken bones in various parts of my body, which requires me to spend a lot of time in bed until they heal.
It may take months, and the Beast is trying to tell me that this is the perfect time to drink, since I don't have to go to work until the doctors clear me to work. Of course, if I were to actually drink, or even to smoke cigarettes, it could add several more months to the recovery time, or prevent it entirely.
From its point of view, this is the perfect excuse for a party. From my point of view, a party, especially an extended month-long party, could cause serious long term damage. My Beast is trying to cash in my health for a drink, but being forewarned is being forearmed.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: middle of nowhere
Posts: 2,849
TATSY!!!!!!!
I knew you were around but didn't know where! I am SO frikken happy to read this thread my love!!!!
SO much love to you my friend across the pond. <3 Take good care of you love... I will be following here more often!!
I knew you were around but didn't know where! I am SO frikken happy to read this thread my love!!!!
SO much love to you my friend across the pond. <3 Take good care of you love... I will be following here more often!!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,654
Thank you CelticZebra for your kind words. I'm still pretty euphoric since stopping drinking. I've roamed the SR halls , 'thanking' folks, but haven't posted, because I'm worried that people won't believe the miracle that has happened to me. Sorry, it isn't a miracle, I DID IT. I STOPPED DRINKING and I still cannot believe it!!
So, I decide to leave it a little while, before posting on this thread. Last week I completed a cave/mine experience, over 8hours, deepest part of the U.K., abseiling, via ferratta, traversing shear underground cliffs, hanging onto flimsy ropes on massive flat cliffs, zip-wiring across huge underground voids, making the 'leap of faith' free falling in a pitch black cavern! I'm still buzzing, it was so monumentally awesome, I'm aching everywhere, with the most fantastic, fabulistic memories.
You see, I went from being an alcoholic for two decades, the last decade the worst, the last five years worse still, equivalent of 3 bottles of red wine a day, more than 750ml/ a fifth of vodka a day to STOPPING! I tried AA for the last couple of years. No result, alcohol consumption ramped up, despite doing the steps with a fantastic sponsor!
When I decided to implement AVRT I booked the caving experience. It was a ridiculous idea. I couldn't possibly complete it, I was so debilitated. Yet, I knew that AVRT would work and that I had just a couple of weeks to eat and hydrate well and improve my physique. Yes, it was foolhardy, yes it was overly optimistic, but now I realise that if I can stop drinking, I can complete an extreme adventure, I can do anything. The endorphins and dopamine that I believed I was achieving by drinking alcohol, were a lie! I still cannot believe the humongous surge of feeling alive, happy, ecstatic, that I felt when completing that challenge. Endorphins, dopamine were enormous! Alcohol lied to me, it is a ridiculous, life-threatening, short-cut, mal-adaptive brain wiring substitute for real, huge, fantastic, beneficial, life affirming experiences.
Back later to respond to Algorithm and Delizadee!
So, I decide to leave it a little while, before posting on this thread. Last week I completed a cave/mine experience, over 8hours, deepest part of the U.K., abseiling, via ferratta, traversing shear underground cliffs, hanging onto flimsy ropes on massive flat cliffs, zip-wiring across huge underground voids, making the 'leap of faith' free falling in a pitch black cavern! I'm still buzzing, it was so monumentally awesome, I'm aching everywhere, with the most fantastic, fabulistic memories.
You see, I went from being an alcoholic for two decades, the last decade the worst, the last five years worse still, equivalent of 3 bottles of red wine a day, more than 750ml/ a fifth of vodka a day to STOPPING! I tried AA for the last couple of years. No result, alcohol consumption ramped up, despite doing the steps with a fantastic sponsor!
When I decided to implement AVRT I booked the caving experience. It was a ridiculous idea. I couldn't possibly complete it, I was so debilitated. Yet, I knew that AVRT would work and that I had just a couple of weeks to eat and hydrate well and improve my physique. Yes, it was foolhardy, yes it was overly optimistic, but now I realise that if I can stop drinking, I can complete an extreme adventure, I can do anything. The endorphins and dopamine that I believed I was achieving by drinking alcohol, were a lie! I still cannot believe the humongous surge of feeling alive, happy, ecstatic, that I felt when completing that challenge. Endorphins, dopamine were enormous! Alcohol lied to me, it is a ridiculous, life-threatening, short-cut, mal-adaptive brain wiring substitute for real, huge, fantastic, beneficial, life affirming experiences.
Back later to respond to Algorithm and Delizadee!
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
I'm still buzzing, it was so monumentally awesome, I'm aching everywhere, with the most fantastic, fabulistic memories.
Alcohol lied to me, it is a ridiculous, life-threatening, short-cut, mal-adaptive brain wiring substitute for real, huge, fantastic, beneficial, life affirming experiences.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: PA
Posts: 12,000
I haven't been around much. I thoroughly enjoyed reading through this thread.
WOW. Some really great stuff here.
I was concerned about getting a book and postponing the big plan until the book was received and read...
That could come across as the AV saying, "Not yet." Or wait till the next chapter or next book etc.
I, like some, quit before I discovered AVRT. But doing the crash course made a huge difference in my mindset. That's all it took.
Oh, and a big congratulations Tatsy...
WOW. Some really great stuff here.
I was concerned about getting a book and postponing the big plan until the book was received and read...
That could come across as the AV saying, "Not yet." Or wait till the next chapter or next book etc.
I, like some, quit before I discovered AVRT. But doing the crash course made a huge difference in my mindset. That's all it took.
Oh, and a big congratulations Tatsy...
Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 2,580
So glad to hear of your success, Tatsy, and your inspiring post.
I, too, had that weird feeling of realization when I stopped drinking ... "what the ?? alcohol has just been plain lying to me all this time, telling me it was helping me, telling me it was making me feel better and cushioning against bad feelings ... when it was doing the exact opposite". My mood, and the feeling of my brain chemistry, has been so much more positive since quitting.
Congratulations on your cave adventure!
I, too, had that weird feeling of realization when I stopped drinking ... "what the ?? alcohol has just been plain lying to me all this time, telling me it was helping me, telling me it was making me feel better and cushioning against bad feelings ... when it was doing the exact opposite". My mood, and the feeling of my brain chemistry, has been so much more positive since quitting.
Congratulations on your cave adventure!
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