A faith centered RR approach
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Augusta, GA
Posts: 888
A faith centered RR approach
I’m new to RR and I’ve noticed a lot of people aren’t religious, per se. Seems the AVRT is the approach for most atheist and agnostics which almost turned me off from the program, not that I’m against atheist or anyone’s beliefs or lack thereof, I guess almost felt like it may be an affront to my own belief in God and version of Christianity, maybe like I was doing something wrong, lol. I now recognize even THAT sentiment as the beast, the AV and it’s becoming more and more astonishing how much that voice has been sneaking in thoughts and such throughout my entire life once I took that first drink.
I made it 14 months in AA before I ‘relapsed’ and I can see now exactly how I begin making provision for the beast, letting the beast make decisions and totally setting me up! In AA they tell you anything can be your higher power and basically we create the ‘God’ we desire. The problem with this is that it takes all the responsibility off of us as individuals and puts it onto some make believe god that we create to fit into whatever we wish to believe. There’s no standard for truth and what exactly defines right and wrong becomes subjective and up to each person and ultimately relapse and other unhealthy choices are always left on the table. To me, the beast/AV is evil/demon and represents anything that is against what is good for me and my family. As a moral man of conviction I can no longer allow for this AV to lead me around or to feed it with the belief in a false type God that I created in AA that would allow me, even encourage me at times to drink again, I mean relapse is all part of recovery, right? That’s exactly what I was told and the beast soaked every word of it up!
So, now I realize that I can’t blame my Father and his Fathers and I don’t have to go to 90 meetings in 90 days and here all about others drinking days and I also don’t ever have to drink again and I can do this with my faith in God and my belief in following the example of Jesus intact. I don't see RR and faith in conflict with each other and I actually see them complimenting each other quite well. Recognizing the AV as inherently evil provides me with a visual and prayer/meditation as ammunition against this beast that only wants to drink and destroy my life. Even if taken metaphorically, it works for me. So, this program, to me, is a spiritual program, like AA, but without all the nonsense.
I think making a big plan and then following that up with prayer, meditation and enjoying God’s creation and my beautiful family is a full proof plan...no meetings, no working steps, no feeling worthless, powerless and just waiting, in fear, for the next relapse! FREEDOM
So, today I will say that I will never drink again, no matter what, and nothing will ever change my mind, so help me God!
2 Corinthians 10:5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every ‘thought’ to make it obedient to Christ.
I made it 14 months in AA before I ‘relapsed’ and I can see now exactly how I begin making provision for the beast, letting the beast make decisions and totally setting me up! In AA they tell you anything can be your higher power and basically we create the ‘God’ we desire. The problem with this is that it takes all the responsibility off of us as individuals and puts it onto some make believe god that we create to fit into whatever we wish to believe. There’s no standard for truth and what exactly defines right and wrong becomes subjective and up to each person and ultimately relapse and other unhealthy choices are always left on the table. To me, the beast/AV is evil/demon and represents anything that is against what is good for me and my family. As a moral man of conviction I can no longer allow for this AV to lead me around or to feed it with the belief in a false type God that I created in AA that would allow me, even encourage me at times to drink again, I mean relapse is all part of recovery, right? That’s exactly what I was told and the beast soaked every word of it up!
So, now I realize that I can’t blame my Father and his Fathers and I don’t have to go to 90 meetings in 90 days and here all about others drinking days and I also don’t ever have to drink again and I can do this with my faith in God and my belief in following the example of Jesus intact. I don't see RR and faith in conflict with each other and I actually see them complimenting each other quite well. Recognizing the AV as inherently evil provides me with a visual and prayer/meditation as ammunition against this beast that only wants to drink and destroy my life. Even if taken metaphorically, it works for me. So, this program, to me, is a spiritual program, like AA, but without all the nonsense.
I think making a big plan and then following that up with prayer, meditation and enjoying God’s creation and my beautiful family is a full proof plan...no meetings, no working steps, no feeling worthless, powerless and just waiting, in fear, for the next relapse! FREEDOM
So, today I will say that I will never drink again, no matter what, and nothing will ever change my mind, so help me God!
2 Corinthians 10:5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every ‘thought’ to make it obedient to Christ.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
Well said, UltraDad. AVRT specifically holds that religion is irrelevant and outside of the entire conversation. Believe and worship as you choose, or not. Seek counselling for emotional issues, financial issues, home repair issues, all as you see fit. Indeed, if your home needs repair, or your finances are in a mess, or you need to be treated by psychiatrist or psychologist, it would only be prudent and rational to do so. If you need to seek Him, then do so.
But quit drinking already for heavens' sake. If it is a problem for you, then fix that thing too, as a prudent and rational person would do. And make that the first order of business as it greatly impairs your ability to address any of that other stuff.
I have a strong religious faith, and I believe that I have been given the tools to live a good life, and AVRT is one of them. It is up to me to use it.
Keep pushing forward, UltraDad. You are doing great. Onward!
But quit drinking already for heavens' sake. If it is a problem for you, then fix that thing too, as a prudent and rational person would do. And make that the first order of business as it greatly impairs your ability to address any of that other stuff.
I have a strong religious faith, and I believe that I have been given the tools to live a good life, and AVRT is one of them. It is up to me to use it.
Keep pushing forward, UltraDad. You are doing great. Onward!
Not The Way way, Just the way
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: US
Posts: 1,413
Originally Posted by ultradad 
To me, the beast/AV is evil/demon and represents anything that is against what is good for me and my family.
This is the only part of your post that strikes me as outside the realm of AVRT. As I understand the AV of RR; IT is ONLY the old habituated, but dying desire to drink some more.
My Beast of booze would love having lots of other do's and don't's added to IT's identity, thus making not drinking contingent on those other things.
I would vilify other things that might harm my family as outside the realm of AVRT, unless, of course, it's another bad habit that I might want to terminate. Then I define another Beast for ending that habit.
I quit booze/pot first; then caffeine; then man-made sweets. Oh, and I keep forgetting that I quit tobacco soon after booze; that nicotine Beast is completely dead.
GT
Trudgin
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,348
I read a friends post the other day who many of us know that just hit 5 years. His comments awhile back on someone else thread really struck me.
Paraphrasing - don't let anyone tell you that you must have any sort of plan for recovery. This friend has not had a daily plan and appears to be very happy, living life fully.
His comments hit me because I have a structured program many use. But, I know there are others. Whatever works.........
When I would post those words, I really did not mean it. Whatever works......
Really I meant good luck if your not doing what I do - cause that's what everyone should do. We are so passionate about "our" way.
But, I am pleased today to know in my heart of hearts the object is indeed to remove the poison alcohol from our existence. Hopefully, upon doing this we find some peace we never knew - or lost and some balance living a fruitful life.
Ultra, I am glad today you've found something to work for you. If that changes, maybe try something else - or nothing!
That is my intent as well.
Program or not , from A through Z - live life soberly and love those we come in contact with. That's the plan......
Glad you're posting
Paraphrasing - don't let anyone tell you that you must have any sort of plan for recovery. This friend has not had a daily plan and appears to be very happy, living life fully.
His comments hit me because I have a structured program many use. But, I know there are others. Whatever works.........
When I would post those words, I really did not mean it. Whatever works......
Really I meant good luck if your not doing what I do - cause that's what everyone should do. We are so passionate about "our" way.
But, I am pleased today to know in my heart of hearts the object is indeed to remove the poison alcohol from our existence. Hopefully, upon doing this we find some peace we never knew - or lost and some balance living a fruitful life.
Ultra, I am glad today you've found something to work for you. If that changes, maybe try something else - or nothing!
That is my intent as well.
Program or not , from A through Z - live life soberly and love those we come in contact with. That's the plan......
Glad you're posting
Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,183
The AV concept isn't unique to RR, and I think it's however you want to conceptualize it. If that's a demon or satan himself, and that works for you, it's all good. 
To me it's the voice of temptation, The Reptile, though with addiction it's more complicated since real changes in brain chemistry are involved.
To me it's the voice of temptation, The Reptile, though with addiction it's more complicated since real changes in brain chemistry are involved. Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 5,937
Good points! Nothing in AVRT requires you to be an atheist just as AA doesn't require a belief in the stereotypical Judeo/Christian god. It focuses on the Beast Voice, not a higher power. I'm glad you found something that works for you.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: PA
Posts: 12,000
Originally Posted by freshstart57
But quit drinking already for heavens' sake. If it is a problem for you, then fix that thing too, as a prudent and rational person would do. And make that the first order of business as it greatly impairs your ability to address any of that other stuff.
You have to quit drinking first and foremost. Then take care of the other stuff as you are able.
Sorry to hear you drank UD. Glad you made a big plan. In the past year I have been tempted more than once. I always remind myself that I will never drink again and never change my mind. Sometimes it takes a little push, but so far I haven't had a drink regardless of how much "I" wanted one at times.
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